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Message |
    
Tom Mazanec (tom)
Registered Member
Username: tom
Post Number: 1065
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 06:34 am: | 
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Anyone else having trouble getting in to the new board? |
Duquense (duquense)
Registered Member
Username: duquense
Post Number: 666
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 - 03:04 am: |
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testing 123 is this closed have we moved to the new board yet |
Stephen (sandcastles)
Registered Member
Username: sandcastles
Post Number: 280
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2004 - 12:58 pm: |
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Testing the clipart thing again.
And I'm not able to copy images from another web site to this discussion board. Can I do that on the new discussion board?
And a fun web site with another good discussion board:
http://www.nitcentral.com
Nothing to do with AH, but you can make a new topic there if you want to.
Happy Holidays.
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Christopher Plant (chrispi)
Registered Member
Username: chrispi
Post Number: 10
Registered: 01-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2004 - 06:40 pm: |
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Fundamental Theorem of Calculus in Manifolds:
òdR w = òR dw
or
òdR f dr-1x = òR df drx |
Melvin Loh (melvin_loh)
Registered Member
Username: melvin_loh
Post Number: 323
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 31, 2003 - 09:06 am: |
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Hey guys another thing, I'll be on holiday for the next couple weeks, so I'd just like to say see you when I see you on this board, since I don't know exactly when I'll have access to this board again in the immediate few days. Start enjoying 2004 to the fullest, my friends ! |
Napoleon XIV (baku)
Registered Member
Username: baku
Post Number: 139
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 08:30 am: |
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test of text
And I'm sorry about calling Prince Charles an 'inbred jug-eared galoot', if that's the reason I've been banished here. I did remove it later but it got on the email monitor anyhow
(Message edited by baku on December 30, 2003) |
Melvin Loh (melvin_loh)
Registered Member
Username: melvin_loh
Post Number: 303
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 03:14 am: |
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To Ian and John Piccone, sorry about my self-righteous conduct on the Post-WWI war crimes trials thread. I apologise and won't bring up such contentious hist issues on this discussion board again. You're both great guys, I love the privilege of being on this board, and I just wanna try to get along with everybody here as well as possible so's we can all discuss interesting things and learn new stuff from each other. John, may you and I have a better posting relationship when you return to the Board.
MELVIN LOH. |
Peter David Hall (peter_hall)
Registered Member
Username: peter_hall
Post Number: 322
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 06:03 pm: |
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Testy, testy, test, test. |
Evan C. Edlund (the_gunslinger)
Registered Member
Username: the_gunslinger
Post Number: 67
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, December 25, 2003 - 08:14 am: |
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Merry Christmas everyone! |
Ben Riley (rmg)
Registered Member
Username: rmg
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 22, 2003 - 05:11 pm: |
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<img>
Test test test. |
Robert P. Perkins (robertp6165)
Registered Member
Username: robertp6165
Post Number: 224
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 06:23 pm: |
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Robert P. Perkins (robertp6165)
Registered Member
Username: robertp6165
Post Number: 223
Registered: 08-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, December 21, 2003 - 06:18 pm: |
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Ian Montgomerie (admin)
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 287
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 02:29 pm: |
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testing |
Grey Wolf (1time_wolf)
Registered Member
Username: 1time_wolf
Post Number: 2491
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, December 13, 2003 - 01:02 pm: |
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testy |
Peter David Hall (peter_hall)
Registered Member
Username: peter_hall
Post Number: 271
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 04:10 am: |
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(Message edited by peter_hall on December 10, 2003) |
Straha (fireblade)
Registered Member
Username: fireblade
Post Number: 687
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 21, 2003 - 05:07 pm: |
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Christopher Brielman (dominusnovus)
Registered Member
Username: dominusnovus
Post Number: 135
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 16, 2003 - 11:38 pm: |
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Don't mind me, just making life more convenient for myself like I did last time.
The elite have usually considered themselves patrons of the arts. They have evolved in modern times, to the artsy person, portrayed best a beret-wearing frenchman, smoking a slim cigarette and speaking about the symbolism of the brush strokes in a particular work of art. This person tries his best to separate himself from society, by standing out with "impeccable" taste in art. He disdains anything the masses like as pedestrian, and develops increasingly outlandish views and tastes.
Consider the gift shop of the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. It showcases both mundane items that would appeal to the masses, such as gift cards, anthologies of Playboy playmates, and children's toys, and items that showcase the taste of the artsy, such as indian erotica. You almost get the feeling that the shop exists so that the artsy can mingle with the masses and look down on them, while showing off their cultured tastes. Personally, it was not an enjoyable experience, which is probably as the elite intended it to be.
Ever since the dawn of human society, the elite of society have striven to prove that they are elite for a reason. They have sought proof that they are better than those who had it worse than them. As the Age of Enlightenment produced the idea that every man was pretty much equal, they had to find a new way to prove that they were superior. The only way they could was to have superior taste, taste that the common man could not have, could not appreciate.
Consider the various movements in art. The Industrial Revolution brought many new art styles along with it. Why? The answer is most likely found in the relative prosperity provided by the Industrial Revolution. As the masses became more prosperous, they had greater access to art. They could spend time in a museum, viewing masterpieces that were once only viewed by the rich. This, of course, appalled the artsy elite, who could not bear to have these commoners around.
So what happened? The elite become more elite in their art. They began to move away from what was understandable and comfortable in art. Art become impressionist. When the masses got used to that, it become expressionist. When the masses got used to that, along came cubism and surrealism. The masses have gotten used to that, too, so the elite have developed abstract, pop, and op art. At this point, the masses have yet to like this, and it should stay that way, because those art forms flat out suck.
Yet this is why the artsy love them. They appreciate it, and not have to worry about the unwashed masses interfering with their enjoyment of the art. Sure, the occasional pleb might come along, but they'll probably walk away, not understanding the art, exactly as the elite want. They want to be isolated in their ivory towers, separate from the lower classes.
Henry James says as much in his essay, "The American Scene." He laments how Boston had evolved from his "small homogenous Boston of the more interesting time" (page 231) to the large, loud, diverse Boston of his present. He bemoans the Boston Public Library, which had all but replaced the Athenaeum he loved and which is full of loud boisterous children. He was angry at the fact that something which had been elite was now open to the public. He could no longer pursue his intellectual desires and feel that he was in the company of his peers.
In the end, so much can be seen as a struggle between the desire of the elite to separate themselves from the masses, and the desire of the masses to prove themselves equal to the elite. The artsy have had to retreat further and further from conventional thought and art. This trend will continue as long as any man perceives himself as innately superior to his neighbor, as long as anyone sees themselves lord of another. In short, this trend, this idea, however idiotic it is, will stay with humanity as long as there is a humanity to speak of. |
Christopher Brielman (dominusnovus)
Registered Member
Username: dominusnovus
Post Number: 83
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 08:15 am: |
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I'm just circumventing a University rule about not reading e-mail in the Library, thus preventing me from emailing myself and printing out an essay in said library.  Ain't I brilliant?
In our society, art has traditionally been regarded as classy, almost aristocratic. The upper classes have historically been the patrons of artists, commissioning such works as Da Vinci's "Mona Lisa" and Michelangelo's "Pieta". With this association has come a sense of aristocracy and nobility surrounding art. This sense has continued even to this day. Therefore, when art comes along that defies this tradition, it is denounced by the upper class patrons of the arts. They label this art as camp or kitsch, and hide it under the rug, as it is beneath them. But this art is not the bad art that they insist it is. It is simply not their art, something they cannot tolerate.
Its worthwhile to note that art has been around almost as long as humans have. Cave paintings have been found that are over twenty thousand years old, predating civilization by millennia. These paintings were probably not created for the upper class elite, simply because there was no upper class elite. It is only with the rise of civilization that art began to associate itself with the upper class. As society began to specialize, the artist emerged. Only in prosperous regions could such a useless caste arise, and only the prosperous (who could easily afford to) would spend their resources on art.
In Egypt and Mesopotamia, art was mainly used in a religious or government function, not that there was much difference between the two organizations back then. The Pyramids of Giza, the tombs of the Valley of the Kings, and the Temple of Carnak were all heavily painted. These murals portrayed the story of the gods or, a sign of things to come, the kings (who, of course, were gods in Egyptian society). So civilized art entered the scene firmly in the camp of the elite. After all, who is more elite than a god-king? Yet, it should be noted that this art was actually meant for the masses. It was created to proclaim the glory of kings and gods to the people.
Next on the scene were the Greeks and Romans. With them, art moved down a notch, from the realm of deities to the realm of men. Though they did create great works of art to commemorate the gods, the Greeks and Romans are well known for their depictions of men. The Greeks fell in love with the human form, portraying it in sculpture and painting. Every well to do Roman had a sculpture made of himself, to preserve his memory for posterity. Every Roman domus (townhouse) and villa had dazzling frescoes along their walls. Still, this art was still for the rich.
After the Romans, Europe had to get over the Middle Ages before any serious art could be produced. The Renaissance artists began creating art for their wealthy patrons. The rich started to house individual works of art in their residences. Artist did not paint for the poor, as there was no good reason to. They needed to survive, and, to do that, they needed the support of a rich patron. So, art continued along to the modern day.
The aristocracy's hegemony over the world of art might have gone unchallenged, were it not for the rise of the middle class and the beginning of camp and kitsch art. As the quality of life improved, people wanted to expand their horizons, and enjoy art. Of course, being the unwashed masses that they were, they could never devote the time and energy to appreciating art that the true aficionados could. They could still appreciate art, and aesthetically pleasing things, though.
Then, along came Thomas Kinkade. The elite hate Kinkade. They hate him with a passion. Art aficionados such as Kate Ledogar denounce him for inflicting "damage to the American psyche" and believe that he should be "put... on a desert island." Why do they hate him? His art is appealing to the masses and he makes a lot of money doing creating this art. It is acceptable, in their opinion, for oppressed painters in third world countries to paint such painting. They do not demand blood from those that oppress these painters, but they do demand Kinkade's blood.
Why? Because Kinkade is the master. He is not working for a patron. He is not slaving away for the benefit of someone else. There are many excellent painters that go unknown, because they slaved away trying to meet the demands of their patrons. The successful ones that we know of were able to play psychological games with their patrons and get what they wanted out of the relationship.
Kinkade does not do this. He takes his talent to the market and shares it with anyone. He avoid the whole patron-artist relationship by creating art that is easily accessible to the masses. He doesn't set out to challenge someone's view of the world with a painting that defies understanding. He creates a simple painting that is just likable. Kinkade does for art what Henry Ford did for automobiles. The rich didn't like Ford much, either.
Take, for example, Kinkade's "Conquering The Storms". Its easy for Americans to relate to. Its got a lighthouse, something as American as apple pie, standing against the turbulent sea and a brewing storm. Its nice to look at. It doesn't mess with your head, or blow your mind away. Its just simple and enjoyable. This, in the eyes of the elite, is bad art. It's not poorly done and I think that more work went into it than went into some of the items in the Museum of Fine Arts ("Pacing" comes to mind). What, then, is bad about it? Is it the fact that its simple and enjoyable? That seems to be the only possible answer.
Contemporary art, on the other hand, is the opposite of Kinkaid. The masses tend to hate it, the elite tend love it. Take Douglas R. Weathersby's "West Floor Reflection". It shows a mop cart next to what I hope is some spilled soda. I look at this and the only possible conclusion I can come to is that the artist is either dumb enough to think its brilliant, or smart enough to know that others will be dumb enough to think its brilliant. I, and the rest of the unwashed masses, are incapable of seeing any deeper meaning behind this "work of art". Its not even aesthetically appealing!
This brings us to the main point of contention. The common person thinks that art should be pretty. It should look nice. It doesn't always have to portray something pretty, but it should at least be easily understood. The aristocrat thinks that art should be challenging and thought provoking. What it looks like doesn't matter, what it means does. This belief is why they hate Kinkaid. Kinkaid's art doesn't provoke thought. It doesn't mean much at all. All of its value is in its appearance.
But why does this make his work bad art? Does art have to challenge you? The American Heritage dictionary doesn't seem to think so. It defines art as "The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in manner that affects the sense of beauty...", clearly showing that the people in charge of the dictionary think that art should portray something visually (in the case of paintings) appealing.
Of course, the elite would probably pay this definition little head. After all, it was arrived at by very dry people who probably know nothing of art! The elite are archons of art, dealing out their verdict on what is art and what isn't. They know better than everyone else, so everyone else should just go along with these self appointed experts.
So, we have the two camps. One thinks that art should be challenging to the mind, and to hell with what it looks like. The other side just wants something nice to look at. The second side clearly outnumbers the first, but, looking at all the literature on the subject, you wouldn't know it. Why? The answer is simple: They don't care. Its just art. It doesn't matter. There's enough stuff to worry about in the world and they don't have the time to be arguing about art. They just want to be able to enjoy it from time to time.
This isn't good enough for the elite. They continue to deride the common art and rant and rave on how it is terrible and an affront to quality art. Let them rant and rave. It just keeps them busy. If they didn't spend so much time on art, God knows what they'd do with all the free time they'd have. I shudder at the thought. |
Straha (fireblade)
Registered Member
Username: fireblade
Post Number: 615
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 06:10 pm: |
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 |
Tom Mazanec (tom)
Registered Member
Username: tom
Post Number: 658
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 02:53 pm: |
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qwertyuiop[]asdfghjkl;'zxcvbnm,./~!@#$%^&*()_+`1234567890-=QWERTYUIOP{\|ASDFGHJKL:"ZXCVBNM<>?} |
Grey Wolf (1time_wolf)
Registered Member
Username: 1time_wolf
Post Number: 2044
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 10:33 pm: |
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Test
Having trouble posting again - maybe sometimes it is just a specific thread ? Tried posting to the Polk thread twice now this morning - once it just failed to load the page, and the second time it crashed IE
Maybe third time lucky ? |
Straha (fireblade)
Registered Member
Username: fireblade
Post Number: 585
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 10:51 am: |
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 |
Tom Mazanec (tom)
Registered Member
Username: tom
Post Number: 635
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 10:28 am: |
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If you ever want to see your timeline again, place 100 gazillion attocents }}in alargepaper bag and place it under the oaktree by the corner.} |
Kevin Beckman (darth_beckman)
Registered Member
Username: darth_beckman
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 05, 2003 - 02:13 pm: |
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What if blah blah blah, bla bla bla bla? |
Grey Wolf (1time_wolf)
Registered Member
Username: 1time_wolf
Post Number: 1909
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 09:38 am: |
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Test
The board crashed twice on me...
GW |
Douglas Anderson (antipodes)
Registered Member
Username: antipodes
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 12:45 am: |
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Test message is being prepared
Hi there I'm Antipodes
 
Whoops, wrong clip art. |
Grey Wolf (1time_wolf)
Registered Member
Username: 1time_wolf
Post Number: 1699
Registered: 04-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 12:43 pm: |
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LOL, its enjoyable reading them !
I guess its also kinda reasuring for the paranoid - imagine typing out a 100 line post as your first message then finding it rejected. Instead you post a 1-line hiya here...
Grey Wolf
(Message edited by 1time_wolf on October 21, 2003) |
josquius (josquius)
Registered Member
Username: josquius
Post Number: 758
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 12:17 pm: |
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Reformatted and changed to XP, seeing if I'm working...
just been my birthday too...
dum dum...
What is the point of test messages anyway besides this? Surely not many people need to test. |
Stephen Knizek (victormarik)
Registered Member
Username: victormarik
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 01:56 pm: |
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abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
 am I posted?
this is my first post ^_^ |
Wojciech J. Broda (otis_tarda)
Registered Member
Username: otis_tarda
Post Number: 266
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 11:46 am: |
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Why I can't see my login?
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Sam King (sam_king)
Registered Member
Username: sam_king
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:29 pm: |
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Test |
Mike King (mike_king)
Registered Member
Username: mike_king
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 02:14 pm: |
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testing |
Stephen (sandcastles)
Registered Member
Username: sandcastles
Post Number: 214
Registered: 09-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 08:15 am: |
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Thanks.
 |
Ian Montgomerie (admin)
Board Administrator
Username: admin
Post Number: 142
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 28, 2003 - 08:22 pm: |
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You have to use the squiggly brackets. I get this by typing "\" followed by "clipart{wink}":
(Message edited by admin on August 28, 2003) |
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Closed: New threads not accepted on this page
