| Author |
Message |
    
Tom Mazanec (tom)
Registered Member
Username: tom
Post Number: 674
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 14, 2003 - 09:41 pm: | 
|
Aesop background:
England is the center of the fledgling "living picture" industry (movies). A couple studios use Aesops in movie versions of classic fairy tales, or "Amos and Andy" like slapstick using Aesops, like our animated cartoons.
Columbia background:
Since the Second Vatican Council was in session when the war broke out, most of the bishops and cardinals (and John XXIII) were killed. Some survived in Rome (the Vatican was some distance from the local hypocenter, and was not completely destroyed, as well as being just outside the main fallout plume). Some also survived by being out of Rome at the time. The result was the Decade of the Twenty Popes (ten or twelve of whom (depending on who you ask) were antipopes) until a conservative (even reactionary) stability was brought by the election of Marcel Lefebvre as Pius XVIII. He was followed by Malachi Martin as Pius XIX, and the Church was in a conclave just after his death when the Event occurred. |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 232
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 11:44 am: |
|
(thanks tom for providing the site address)
actually i was thinking maybe the following:
antonio's maps [as credited to him]
the stuff that i wrote up
links to the stories
a possible forum in which people can talk about stories as well as "dealings" that leaders of certain nations would do
and "updated" maps of what has already happened. |
Tom Mazanec (tom)
Registered Member
Username: tom
Post Number: 641
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 09:15 am: |
|
I don't know if just a map and brief description would be enough...I read the Amazon Commonwealth as kind of a "Puritan" society, so I thought "Salem 1692", which is why I so misread that background. And as I pointed out, you could easily get a very false view of my Aesop from the article they were created in if you go by the pictures...and that had more info than any other region here except the Draka!
You can reach my host by going to www.xepher.net if you want a free web site...I certainly won't have time to do the kind of work necessary for a "Mosaic Almanac and Book of Facts". |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 231
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 10, 2003 - 06:33 am: |
|
is there some company that does free hosting on the net? if so- i can ask around for help and put this stuff on the web. i know that tom mazanec has a webpage with all the links to the threads of mosaic earth. perhaps he can do it...
(Message edited by g.bone on November 10, 2003) |
Diamond (diamond)
Registered Member
Username: diamond
Post Number: 1124
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 10:44 pm: |
|
Yeah, I agree with you, Tom. I had the bones of a story planned out set in my Mosaic creations, but just didn't have the time to research all the other areas of the planet they'd need to interact with. And I didn't want to step on any toes by just disregarding their inventions or not checking with them, so I shelved the story.
What would be cool would be an actual gazeteer, set up like G.Bone's done, with links from a map going to a description of that area. Then all the info you'd need would be right in one place. Anyone want to host it? |
Tom Mazanec (tom)
Registered Member
Username: tom
Post Number: 636
Registered: 01-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 07:33 pm: |
|
Don't feel bad, G. Bone...it went on longer than I thought it would. The problem, IMHO, is that we had too many cooks. When our "worlds" started to interact, we had to either co-ordinate or mangle each others creations (as I very nearly did the Amazon Commonwealth until its creator helped me write my story). As a completely hypothetical example, suppose someone looked at the illustrations in the Pyramid article (which I was not responsible for) and desides to use an Aesop as an infiltrator...a whole body shave, some dental work, a little plastic surgery and you have someone who can pass as human...an ugly human, but a human, right? WRONG! I pictured the Aesop as bipedal, human sized talking animals with nimble paws at best...a 30th Century Chrysalis Machine would be necessary to disguise one as a human. I was trying to follow all the threads and work out how my populations would respond to the other populations and how the other populations would respond to my populations; how each would react to those reactions...and living alone in a large house with a "full time plus" job is not conducive to scheduling such intellectual efforts. I salute what we managed to accomplish. |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 230
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 03:37 pm: |
|
Africa
The Axumite Empire
The area transported is OTL's Ethiopia, Eritrea, Djibouti, Somalia, Kenya and the Seychelles, as well as Uganda north of the equator and Sudan south of the Coptic Kingdom of Egypt.
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:51 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3209.html?1055698167
-GBW
Republic of East Africa
Area transported: Nambia, Uganda south of the Equator, North West Rodesia [Zimbabwe], North Njassaland
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:15 pm
-Pascal Schmidt
Drakan Province of Zanzibar
The area transported are the islands of Zanzibar and Pemba in OTL's Tanzania
-GBW
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3148.html?1054875692
Liberia
The area transported are OTL's countries of Liberia, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Cote D'Ivoire, Burkina Faso, Ghana, Togo and Benin
[same post, thread]
-GBW
Kingdom of Zululand
The area transported is OTL's Lesotho and all of South Africa except for the provinces of North-West, Gauteng, Eastern Transvaal and Northern Transvaal.
[see Liberia]
-GBW
Republic of the Transvaal
The area transported is South Africa outside of the Kingdom of Zululand, OTL's Swaziland and all of Mozambique south of the Limpopo River
[see K. of Zululand]
-GBW
Libya
The area transported is OTL's Libya south to 20 degrees latitude and the portions of Chad and Niger north of the same line
-GBW
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 03:12 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3102.html?1054460433
Morocco
The size of the Roman province of Mauretania Tingitania (?)
[see Libya]
-GBW
Congo
Occupies a zone that roughly corresponds the southern half of OTL Congo Republic, OTL Democratic Republic of Congo (Zaire), and the southern frontier is delimited by the Kwango and Cuanza rivers.
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 08:48 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3072.html?1053806971
-antonio
Madagascar
The area transported are the islands of Madagascar, the Comoros, Réunion, the Glorioso Islands, Juan de Nova Island, Europa Island, Bassas da India and Tromelin Island
[same thread]
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 12:56 am
-GBW
Algeria
Area transported: Algeria and Tunisia
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 03:16 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/2981.html?1053705213
-Scott Blair
The Coptic Kingdom of Egypt
Area transported: Egypt, N. Sudan
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/2981.html?1053705213
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 12:28 pm
-Bruce Munro
Lithuanian West Africa
Area transported: OTL's Nigeria, Niger, parts of Cameroon, Benin and Togo
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3662.html?1056318772
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 08:41 am
-legolas
Songhay
Mauritania, Mali [presumed]
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 06:51 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/4139.html?1063087902
-Max Sinister
[Presumed]
Rome Aeterna
Central Afr. Rep., S. Chad
Posted on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 12:24 pm
(as suggested by GBW)
-same thread as before
"Lost"
Crusader Egypt
Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 09:57 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/4026.html#POST40472
-Bruce Munro
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G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 229
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 07, 2003 - 04:46 pm: |
|
Sorry about the delay. I will return this weekend to write up africa- and then, as a story and a thread, Mosaic Earth can quietly sleep to whatever paradise unfinished stories go. |
Scott Teel (boss_hoss)
Registered Member
Username: boss_hoss
Post Number: 63
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Friday, October 24, 2003 - 01:04 pm: |
|
Here is the completed list of Juggernauts (tanks) to be found in the Brasil fragment. To save time, I used "tank" as much as possible. Armor on the Redemptionist has been tweaked.
Any suggestions are welcome.
First true tank;
St. Croix, 1981 Inspired by trucks with added plate, (armored cars) created for riot control/police actions, which bogged down or overturned in rough ground.
During the threatened european crisis of 1980-2, All sides tried to figure out how to be menacing in saber-rattling while saving every soldier they could if war broke out. No need to give the Aesop any more lead in numbers than they already had.
With the expected ground considering the last human war many years before, fought with (Napoleonic) tactics and mass-produced rifles. It was clear a truck would be useless when even horses had bogged down.
Gen. Leomund saw a crawler tractor being tested for pulling artillery. When he saw how well it performed in rough ground, He wondered if he could make an armored car of it. Several engineers were assigned, and soon they had a rough box mounted on a Schnieder tractor frame.
It could only move 5 mph, but since it would be protecting troops advancing behind it, that was considered adequate. Production was allowed, creating 500 in a year's time. After an Aesop near mutiny when forced to operate such a device, they were soon heavilly modified so that the engine was covered in it's own compartment for soundproofing and to better vent the exhaust away from Aesop crews. When first seen by Germans, Rumors of a French metal juggernaut spread, and gave the vehicle type it's name.
When war did not break out, they were relegated to police actions and mammal cleansing operations in the colonies with a fire fountain in place of cannon.
Armor is 1/4" bolted steel. Engine is a 6-cylinder 105 Hp. DuPre, left open to the crew compartment for frequent repairs.
Armament is 3-4 7.7mm machineguns and either a 70mm gun or a firefountain (flamethrower) mounted in a sponson.
A number of these Juggernauts were made available to Brasil in 1995 along with shipments of food and Aesops. A handful still remain in 2003, used as fixed antitank bunkers, or stripped of armament and used for artillery towing or vehicle recovery.
Second known tank; Wotan, 1983. The Germans offered their answer to the St. Croix, which was cumbersome enough to need two six-cylinder engines for the same speed as a St. Croix. Basically a larger box on a Holt tractor crammed with every weapon they had room for. Its tendency to bog down in deep mud relgated the only 3 colonial models recieved to duty as fixed antitank bunkers, and were destroyed when the Avalon war broke out. Armed with a 5 inch gun and up to eight 8mm machine guns, one on a small turret on top.
Armor was 1/2" rivited steel.
As ineffective as it was, it did give the Brasil engineers ideas for their "breakthrough" heavy juggernaut, -besides the "how NOT to do it."
The remains of one still lies on the Brasil/Amazon border & may need to be removed as giving a false impression of Brasil tech.
Third known tank; Mk. I Palfrey cavalry juggernaut, 1983
Lagging behind, the British felt they needed a juggernaut too, and quickly. To save time, they basically put tracks on a Destrier Mk. 2 armored car with a turret. British hopes for a prompt replacement for horse cavalry to follow up on a breakthrough of enemy lines were perhaps a bit optimistic, considering the top speed of the Palfrey was 10mph.
Armor was .24" (under 1/4") rivited steel. Engine is a 4-cylinder 55 Hp. Whippet. Armament was a turret mounted 35mm gun and a water cooled .35 machine gun, or two machine guns, one replacing the cannon.
Both Destriers and Palfreys were provided in quantity to Brasil. Aesop crews liked them for their relatively quiet operation.
The machine guns were later replaced with the new Brasil 14mm heavy machine gun shortly before war broke out. (equal to .50 BMG in OTL)
First Avalon tank; Type 1 Redemptionist, (1995?)
Avalon designers looked southward at an enemy poised to make a cheese grater of their border. They had trialed a number of foreign juggernauts, sometimes in harrassment raids on Brasil, and realized they needed a type intended for crossing wide trenches. What they enthusiastically came up with was something similar to OTL WWI british tanks at the end of the war. -Somehow managing to reach 10 mph despite being prone to breakdowns.
Armor was 1/4" to 2" bolted steel in different locations. Engine is a 6-cylinder 100hp O'Leary. Armament is a bow-mounted 75mm howitzer. In side sponsons- two .30 machine guns, or hand-cranked Rattlers (5-barrel Gatlings) during part shortages. The hand operated turret has one 20mm cannon.
Unfortunately for Brasil, what they lacked in quality, they made up for in quantity -much like their trench warfare human wave tactics. Because they are so prone to breakdown, some had been captured and used for static defense bunkers or secondary defense battalions.
Second Avalon tank; Type 2 St. Joan light juggernaut, (1996?)
Originally a French design for police actions and cleansing, the version trialed was armed with a fire fountain. They liked this so much, they produced an updated domestic version with this as it's usual main armament. Due to it's thin armor and usual Avalon production standards, it lives up to it's name far too often. Some units strip off the fire fountain and feed the fuel tanks to the engine instead, becoming long range scouts or poison smoke layers at a speed of 12mph.
Armor is .24" bolted steel. Engine is a 4-cylinder 55Hp Stratton.
Armament is a Dante fire fountain with two 30 gallon tanks of fuel, - having a range of 50 yards, and one .30 machine gun.
Because of it's range, there are some captured scouts on the transferred section of Brasil.
}
First Brasil tank; LJ2 "Greyhound", 1995
With war looming, Brasil turned it's tractor manufacturing expertise and plants toward producing copies of the British tanks being "lent" to them. Knowing this was never going to be enough, designing Brasil-specific armor became a priority.
Aesop engineers offered some ideas on needed improvements to incorporate into a homegrown design, coming up with a fast and (relatively) quiet light tank that reached speeds of 25mph.
Being their first design, there were some bugs, including overheating, that are being addressed with modifications. First model with a powered turret. Also a first for Brasil was wider tracks than foreign tanks (12" wide), due to their experience with tractors in South Vespucchian mud. This trend continues in all Brasil tanks.
Armor is welded steel plate, 3/4" fore, 1/2" aft. Engine is a 6-cylinder, 100Hp Juerrra. Armament varies, usually two 8mm machine guns, or one 14mm HMG or 20mm cannon.
Second Brasil tank: MJ2 "Jaguaro", 1996
With growing expertise, the military and engineers decided they needed something between the production light tank, and the land battleship still on the drawing boards. -if nothing else than to replace the clumsy St. Croix. Problems encountered creating this design were soon solved, with some improvements leaking over to the Heavy tank.
Someone had the bright idea of trying engines from sporting autos and aerocraft
The final result was better than any European or Avalon design, and nearly as fast as a light tank with a speed of 22mph.
Armor is welded steel 3" fore, 3/4" aft. Engine is usually a Llama V-8 280hp. Some varients mount the Rhea V-12 air engine for a speed of 28-30mph.
Armament is a 77mm cannon, with a 8mm MG co-axial, and one hull mount (bow)
Some commanders mount a seperate machine gun next to the hatch for ground and air defense with any MG handy.
Third Brasil tank; HJ1 "Landodile", 1997
Design of this giant, 33' long, took as long as the other two types together, with improvements of both incorporated into it. The primary idea was for a heavy tank along the lines of the "land battleship" other nations were working towards. Its primary role is to smash through an enemy line, breach trenches, and even duel with other tanks to open the way for other troops and vehicles. This is the Juggernaut that appears in "Welcome to Saturday Morning" ch. 2
The frontal profile is about 12 1/2' wide due to needing to fit on railcars or tractor trucks for transport.
Armor was welded steel 3" fore, 2" sides, 1" aft, due to its expected role placing it beyond friendly troops for brief periods. The turrets have sloped armor, designed by a landodile engineer.
Engine is a Rhea V-12 aircraft engine, pushing the tank up to 18mph.
Armament is a 77mm gun (main turret, center hull) and two smaller turrets, one bow, one aft, based on the Destrier's, both armed with 35mm-20mm guns or 14mm HMG. there are also six 8mm MGs -1 bow (driver), 1 stern, and 2 on each side. some commanders add a MG to the main hatch as per the "Jaguaro". |
Peter David Hall (peter_hall)
Registered Member
Username: peter_hall
Post Number: 203
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 04:52 am: |
|
I suppose it's only fair of me to make the same offer with regards to Force K. |
Scott Teel (boss_hoss)
Registered Member
Username: boss_hoss
Post Number: 55
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 03:05 am: |
|
God point..I seem to have started something, didnt I? All right everyone, Shall the ToT and the RFK CBG below it remain on the Mosaic world, or should we leave them off if they dont come with their own section of country?
If it means keeping the Mosaic world active, i dont mind the ASBs puttign their new toy back.  |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 221
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 07:14 pm: |
|
um...Mr. Scott Teel....from what I have discern from the archives of Mosaic Earth is that it concerns countries and that while other ..."things"...can be taken in consideration, one has to look at the bigger picture. If you scroll down on this thread, there are a hella lot of countries as listed. some of the creators have plans to write stories of them. to add small fleets, battlegroups, ships, planes, etc. would only confuse other people and the idea of the creator being actually mindfull of what he/she has created. People like Pascal Schmidt, Bruce Munro don't really stop by anymore and sort of leave the other writers in a lurch. for example, on my stories about the falkland islands, i had to avoid the entirely of S. Chile because the author didn't respond.
My basic concern with including planes, ships, battlegroups (etc.) in the picture is that the world is going to be more confusing that it already is and if the author is going to upkeep their own creation.
(that's my opinion. You might want to ask the other active writers if it's alright with them) |
Peter David Hall (peter_hall)
Registered Member
Username: peter_hall
Post Number: 196
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 03:51 pm: |
|
While I was doing "Force K" I started thinking if we've got spare aircraft carriers and cities being transported to Mosaic Earth why not other things like submarines and luxury liners and airships and aeroplanes? |
Peter David Hall (peter_hall)
Registered Member
Username: peter_hall
Post Number: 195
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 15, 2003 - 03:48 pm: |
|
I'll post more on this when I get time to think and write it out properly but this should act as a taster.
Somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean
Despite the almost two centuries of peace following the end of the Napoleanic Wars the world remains a tense place with the countries of the Entente and the Alliance vying for global power and prestige. Both sides move their armies, navies and air forces around the world in a constant game of super power chess, either to show the flag or to act as a fire brigade to control international tensions inflamed by the other side.
Force K
Force K is a Royal Navy Carrier Battlegroup built around two Audacious Class CVN’s HMS Formidable and HMS Magnificent. The group also contains one nuclear powered heavy cruiser, HMS Hood (CGN), two general purpose heavy cruisers (CC), four anti aircraft cruisers (CG), and a number of other ships including destroyers, frigates, and support ships. Also part of Force K is an Amphibious Assaultgroup carrying a reinforced brigade of the British Army
Audacious Class CVN
Displacement: 125,000 tons
Powerplant: Four Rolls Royce cold fusion reactors
Missiles: Four English Electric Sea Viper VLS
Guns: Six 30mm Gattling CIWS
Aircraft:
20 Sopwith Osprey FAW.3
20 Supermarine Firefly FGr.2
30 Blackburn Shark Gr.3
8 Blackburn Shark KGr.1
8 Sikorsky Viking EW.2
8 Fairey Swordfish VAEW.1
8 Fairey Swordfish VAS.2
8 Westland Whirlwind HC.4 |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 220
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 01:09 pm: |
|
ah...well if the creators of that country are okay with it, then it's on the list...
Africa (and all it's messiness) will be posted later on this week due to stuff I have to do today..... |
Antonio Cabañas (antonio)
Registered Member
Username: antonio
Post Number: 205
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 13, 2003 - 08:01 am: |
|
To 47: the capital of the German Empire is Frankfort (the diet was there and is near Hannover, and also Berlin was the capital of Prussia, the worst enemy of the empire for more than a century).
To GBone: the truth is that my only problem with the list is Paris, due to the fact that the other aren't the capital of any state (well, Rome was the capital of the Roman Republic, a member of the Italian Confederacy, but the capital of the Confederacy was in Florence). I'd like to see what the Quechuan do with Machi Picchu. |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 218
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 09:37 pm: |
|
well...the reason that I didn't post the cities here was that I didn't want to get into trouble with the owners of the countries that the cities are in.
I.E., Antonio might have a difference over opinion on 47's "Paris" and the mechanics of having someone else's city in his own country, etc.
I'm not too sure about listing the cities. You might just want to put them on "hold" and then ask permission from the owners of the countries on whether or not you can have those cities that are usually in the perspective countries. (i.e., berlin-Germany).
at least that's my idea. |
Forty Seven (fortyseven)
Registered Member
Username: fortyseven
Post Number: 1323
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 08:16 pm: |
|
I was asked to copy paste from Mosaic Earth thread. The cities are all mine. If Berlin is some part's capital, I can put up another German city. |
Peter David Hall (peter_hall)
Registered Member
Username: peter_hall
Post Number: 188
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 06:39 pm: |
|
"A Berlin from a Axis Victorious timeline. Berlin has a 1000 foot domed Fuhrer Hall in honour of the Millenial Reich. Berlin has a thriving aeronautical and aerospace industry. It is ahead of OTL in these areas but at the same in the rest."
I think someone's done that one somewhere. I'm not sure about messing about with the capitals of countries too much, things are going to be a bit chaotic as is without people finding they've been transported to one alternate world while their king, president or primeminister has been transported to another.
That said how about sticking a city full of vampires in the USA? |
Forty Seven (fortyseven)
Registered Member
Username: fortyseven
Post Number: 1321
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 06:16 pm: |
|
Villemarie
The Holy City of Villemarie was founded by Jesuits and an order of nuns in the 17th century. Located on an island (Montreal) in the Sainte-Marie River(St-Lawrence). Intervention by the Pope saved the city from being taken over by the colony of New France. Present day Villemarie is a cathedral city and is home to the largest catherdral outside of Rome. The current Head of State is Archbishop Jean Laviolette. Villemarie houses the largest number of Armenians outside of Armenia. Villemarie is called the "Second Etchmiadzin". The three official languages of Villemarie are English,French and Armenian. Villemarie is at OTL's level of tech
A Constantinople from a timeline like "Agent of Byzantium". Constantinople has a large monument comemorating the victory over the Muslims at Manzikert. Constantinople has a thriving aeronautical and aerospace industry. It is ahead of OTL in these areas but at the same in the rest.
A Napoleonville (OTL St-Louis) from a Napoleonic Empire timeline. Napoleonville has a 100 foot statue of Napoleon. It's at the same tech level as OTL.
A Paris from a timeline where England conquers France in the Hundred Years War.
A Geneva from a Swiss Superpower timeline. Geneva houses it's timeline's United Nations. Geneva has a thriving aeronautical and aerospace industry. It is ahead of OTL in these areas but at the same in the rest.
A Berlin from a Axis Victorious timeline. Berlin has a 1000 foot domed Fuhrer Hall in honour of the Millenial Reich. Berlin has a thriving aeronautical and aerospace industry. It is ahead of OTL in these areas but at the same in the rest.
A Machu Picchu from a Inca Superpower timeline. Machu Picchu houses the largest optical and radio telescope in it's timeline at it's Royal Observatory. It's at the same level of tech as OTL.
A Rome from a Muslim Europe timeline. Rome has it's timeline's fourth largest mosque. It's ahead of OTL's tech in most areas.
(Message edited by fortyseven on October 12, 2003) |
Peter David Hall (peter_hall)
Registered Member
Username: peter_hall
Post Number: 186
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 04:52 pm: |
|
"Considering this is OTL England, (or was, as of Aug 7) I wouldnt' say ALL their military, considering Iraq/Afghanistan... ^_^ "
Quite correct, a rather large proportion of the British Army is usually serving outside of the British Isles. I'm not sure how much of Britain's armed forces are currently overseas at the moment but consider that since the end of the 91 Gulf War Britain had defence comittments in Germany, The Falkland Islands, the Balkans, Northern Iraq, Kuwait, Seria Leone, East Timor, Cyprus, Gibraltor, the Persian Gulf, the Adriatic and various British Army Training Teams in places like Namibia and that at times some of the units involved were fleshed out with Territorial Army officers and men, and this was before Afghanistan/Iraq, and you can see that there isn't nearly as much military muscle actuallt in the UK as you might think.
I haven't had time to write anything down yet but I was thinking of a couple of carriers and their escorts plus about a divisions worth of armour and men returning from a majour amphibious exercise somewhere. I should be able to post the details tomorrow.
|
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 216
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 11:33 am: |
|
yeah...sort of misread the post since reading the archives is a (**&&* to understand let alone find which country has been 'lost' and ones that have been "officialy" recognized as Mosaic Earth.
I apologize for any error I may have done for that and any future errors that I do based on that.
Addedeum
1) Grand Duchy of Lithuania consists of Moldavia, Kingdom of Poland, (Duchy of) Livonia, Lithuania
see legolas's post on details
2) The Holy League of the Balkans
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3148.html?1054875692
The area transported OTLs former Yugoslavia, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, eastern Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia
-legolas
3) Norse Kingdom of Iceland
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3209.html?1055698167
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 02:06 pm
Area transported is Norway minus the 'tail' of the northern border
-John Ryan
4) United Pentarchy
...also has OTL's Austria... |
Kastytis Zubovas (legolas)
Registered Member
Username: legolas
Post Number: 292
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 12, 2003 - 07:50 am: |
|
Some mistakes in the European listing (of course, it is possible that it is just a misunderstanding on my part, but still...):
The 'Great Duchy of Lithuania' is actually four countries, just all heavily dependent upon Lithuania; their alliance is called 'The Lithuanian Commonwealth'. The countries are: Kingdom of Poland (polish parts, northwestern Ukraine), Duchy of Moldavia (Moldavia of 14th-15th centuries OTL), Duchy of Livonia (OTL's northern half of Latvia and Estonia without the islands) and Grand Duchy of Lithuania (OTL's Lithuania, small parts of Poland, Belarus, many parts of Ukraine, small parts of Russia)
What 'Kingdom of Poland' are you talking about? Yes, there was this idea about a napoleonic Poland by Scott Blair, but it was not implemented because Poland was already taken by me and communist Poland (Antonio's).
You missed the Holy League of Balkan's (also mine); it includes parts of Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia.
Also, my Hungary does not include Austria. In the map, it is marked as part of the Pentarchy, but it probably isn't. I am not sure about that.
***
Despite all this, great job and thanks alot once again for doing this!  |
Scott Teel (boss_hoss)
Registered Member
Username: boss_hoss
Post Number: 43
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 06:24 pm: |
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Considering this is OTL England, (or was, as of Aug 7) I wouldnt' say ALL their military, considering Iraq/Afghanistan... ^_^
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G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 215
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 03:51 pm: |
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umm...we are talking a normal UK with all the weapondry and military that they have. so...i guess you could add a battle group...but we are talking about an entire country's worth of military on their homeland...so just put that in persepective. |
Peter David Hall (peter_hall)
Registered Member
Username: peter_hall
Post Number: 183
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 11:17 am: |
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Would it be OK if I gave the UK a carrier/amphibious battle group. I think the mother coutry could use some extra firepower. |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 214
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 11, 2003 - 11:09 am: |
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Addedeum
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 02:08 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3072.html?1053806971
-> Info on Chwaresm
-----
Europe
1) Empire of France
Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 01:19 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/2981.html?1053705213
Location: OTL's France
-antonio
2) the Italian Confederation
Location: OTL's Italy
(same thread, post, etc)
-antonio
3) United Kingdom of Iberia
Location: OTL's Spain, Portugal
(same thread, post, etc.)
-antonio
4) Corsica
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 02:32 am
(same web link as above)
Location: OTL's Corsica
-antonio
5) Ireland
Location: OTL's Ireland, Dominon of Ulster
(same post, thread, etc.)
-antonio
6) Great Duchy of Lithuania
Location: Poland, Moldavia, Livonia, Parts of Belarus, Lithuania, parts of W. Ukraine
[this includes everything as listed in the post below]
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 09:26 am
(Same link as above)
-legolas
7) United Pentarchy
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/2981.html?1053705213
Posted on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 09:55 am
Saxony, Boehmia, Moravia, Silesia, West Slovakia
-Pascal Schmidt
8) Prussia
OTL's enclave of Kaliningrad
Posted on Sunday, May 18, 2003 - 10:42 am
(same page as before)
-Antonio
9) the Principality of the United Provinces of Netherlands
OTL Low Countries minus the provinces of Limburg and the southeastern third of Northern Brabant
(same post, page as before)
-antonio
10) Belgium
Belgium, Luxembourg and some parts of southeastern Netherlands have been transported
(same post, page as before)
-antonio
11) Poland (People's Republic of)
The portion transported follows the OTL pre-WW2 frontiers with Germany in the west, and the Wista (Vistula) in the east until Warsaw, from there a straight line toward Wroclaw
Posted on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 - 10:25 am
(same page as before)
-antonio
12) Byzantium
The regions transported are: Thrace, Greece minus everything south of Athens, Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria, southern half of Romania.
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 10:46 am
(same page as before)
-legolas
13) Hungary
The regions transported: Bohemia, Moravia, left over Slovakia, Austria, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Greece, Bulgaria, Hungary, southwestern Ukraine, southwestern Ukraine
(same post, page)
-legolas
14) Venice
The regions transported: northeastern Italy, Dalmatia, Montenegro, southern Greece, Crete and Cyprus
(same page, post)
-legolas
15) Kingdom of Poland
see: http://www.geocities.com/borg31de777/Euro-M.jpg
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 04:41 pm
-Scott Blair
16) Regnum Helvetii
Transported Area: Switzerland
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 08:48 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3072.html?1053806971
-Antonio
17) Malta
The area transported are the islands of Malta, Gozo and Comino
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 08:49 pm
-GBW
18) The German Empire
The area transported is OTL Germany, plus Silesia and minus Bavaria.
Posted on Friday, May 30, 2003 - 08:26 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3102.html?1054460433
-antonio
19) The Russian Empire
Area transported is the St. Petersburg and Northwest Russia to a line running from the White Sea-Lake Onega-Upper Volga-Nizhniy Novgorod.
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 03:09 pm
(same link)
-nosb
20) The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
The area transported is central European Russia up to the Volga (Upper and Lower) down to slightly past Rostov-na-Don were it stretches from the Sea of Azov to the drainage of the Volga south of Astrakhan.
(same link, post, etc)
-nosb
21) Khanate of Kazan
The area transported is the all other Russian land to the Urals
(same link, post, etc)
-nosb)
22) The Kingdoms of the Norseland Coast
The area transported is OTL's Norway minus Svalbard and the provinces of Finnmark and Troms. The 15 Norseland kingdoms transported are roughly equivalent to OTL's Norwegian provinces, though the area of Oslo is part of Ostfold.
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 09:39 pm
(same link)
-GBW
23) Storskandinavien
The area transported is OTL's Denmark, Sweden, Finland and the Norwegian provinces of Finnmark and Troms.
(same post, link)
-GBW
>Lost
Republic of Lapland (same post, link)-GBW
24) Free City of Gibraltar
Location: OTL's Gibraltar
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 08:32 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3209.html?1055698167
-antonio
25) Norse Kingdom of Iceland
Location: Iceland
?????????????????
-??????? (If anyone owns this, please respond w/info.)
26) The United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland
-Location: OTL's UK
>Original country from this TL.
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Antonio Cabañas (antonio)
Registered Member
Username: antonio
Post Number: 204
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 08:09 am: |
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To GBW: I thought that Sumatra was part of Malaysia, I hadn't my Atlas near when I did the map. I'll correct the map in the next update. |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 211
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 09:19 pm: |
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Antartica
The Republic of Yamania
Location Transported: Antartica
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 10:00 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/2981.html?1053705213
-GBW
---> also, GBW is the author of the Trojan Realm.
[i had forgotten to put it under the link. my most humble apologies.] |
GBW (gbw)
Registered Member
Username: gbw
Post Number: 279
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 04:41 pm: |
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"The area transported is OTL's Indonesia west of the Empire of Japan, Brunei, East Timor and the portion of Malaysia on the northern portion of the island of Borneo."
That includes Sumatra and Java. I don't know why Antonio didn't include them... |
Not one step back (nosb)
Registered Member
Username: nosb
Post Number: 410
Registered: 08-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 03:18 pm: |
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Java
The Republic Java
After Napoleon’s victory in Europe that left most of Europe as his puppet, the UK was left alone to oppose him. Most former European colonies ended up in the hands of Britain because of its powerful navy. Java was one of these colonies.
Under the East India Company the island was treated much better then it had been under the former Dutch owners. Under its first governor, Sir Thomas Stanford Raffles, the island achieved partial self-government and abolished slavery.
Despite French, American, and Japanese invasions the island was prospered since the British conquest in 1811. Achieving full independence shortly after India in the 1970s, it was become one of the forerunners of Asia technology and one of the three nations of the East Indian Alliance (the others being Australia and New Zealand.) Its economy and democracy are two of the stabilized in the world.
Area transported is Eastern Java
The Peoples' Republic of Java
The Indonesian Communist Party (ICP) overthrew the Indonesian Government in 1965 after the army refused to step in. The ICP established a Stalinist dictatorship in 1970 after a long powered struggle between different factions. The army and secret police keep tight control on the economy and people. The nation’s economy was since declined, and finally collapsed after the fall of the Soviet Union. It is actively seeking nuclear weapons and was formed an Asian Communist military alliance with Vietnam, China, and North Korea. Muslims repels are still a problem after almost 40 years of guerilla warfare.
Area transported is Western Java
(Message edited by Nosb on October 06, 2003) |
G. Bone (gbone)
Registered Member
Username: gbone
Post Number: 210
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:16 pm: |
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Asia and the Middle East
1) Tibet
Where OTL's Tibet is
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/2879.html?1065457335
Posted on Friday, October 03, 2003 - 11:19 pm
-me
2) Kazakhstan
The location is OTL's Kazakhstan
>See Namor's post
-Namor
3) Hittite Empire
The transported areas are Eastern and Southern Turkey, Syria, and upper Iraq
Posted on Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 06:08 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/2981.html?1053705213
-nosb
4) Israel
The areas transported are Israel, Jordan, southern Iraq, and the Western shore of Arabia
(same post and thread as listed above)
-nosb
5) The Most Godly Realm of the Priest-King Wu Shen
(Taiping Chinese Empire
Area transported is Southern China
Posted on Wednesday, May 14, 2003 - 10:39 pm:
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/2981.html?1053705213
-Bruce Munro
6) Holy & Righteous Republic of Siberia
area transported is Siberia
Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 04:51 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3892.html?1060758100
-nosb
7) Persia
Iran, Eastern and central Arabian Peninsula, Azerbaijan, Pakistan to the Indus, and Iraq east of Euphrates
(same post/thread as above)
-nosb
8) Riechskommissariat Kaukasus
Caucasus and Southern Western Russia
(same post/thread as above)
-nosb
9) Dracorus
The area transported is OTL's Nepal
Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2003 - 01:48 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3102.html?1054460433
-GBW
10) The Hellenian Empire
The area transported are the Indian states of Jammu and Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh, Punjab, Uttar Anchal, Delhi, Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Gujarat and Madhya Pradesh and all of Pakistan east of the Indus River.
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 11:59 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3102.html?1054460433
-GBW
11) The East India Company
The area transported is India outside of the Hellenian Empire and north of the Krishna River, as well as OTL's Burma, Bangladesh and Bhutan.
(same post and thread as above)
-GBW
12) Vijayanagar
The area transported is India south of the Krishna River, Sri Lanka, the Andaman Islands, the Nicobar Islands, the Indian state of Lakshadweep, the Maldives, the Chagos Archipelago and the island of Socotra.
(Same post and thread as above)
-GBW
13) Afghanistan
Area transported is OTL’s Afghanistan
Posted on Sunday, May 25, 2003 - 10:38 pm
(same page as listed above w/GBW's post)
-nosb
14) Kingdom of Siam
The area transported is OTL's Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam, as well as the Malay Peninsula portion of Malaysia.
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:51 pm
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/3209.html?1055698167
-GBW
15) Sultanate of Brunei
The area transported is OTL's Indonesia west of the Empire of Japan, Brunei, East Timor and the portion of Malaysia on the northern portion of the island of Borneo.
(same post/thread)
-GBW
16) The Elven Kingdom of Wairanna
The territories transported are OTLs Kazakhstan south of river Irtysh and east of river Ural, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 08:47 am
-legolas
17) The Trojan Realm
The area transported is Anatolia west of the Hittite Empire.
Posted on Sunday, September 07, 2003 - 01:00 am
http://www.alternatehistory.net/discus/messages/40/4090.html#POST43048
Note:
on Sumatra,
Chwarezm,
Mongolian Empire
I could not find any information on these three nations.
So will the creators of those three realms please post their information here.
(Also the island of Java is not taken.)
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Kastytis Zubovas (legolas)
Registered Member
Username: legolas
Post Number: 279
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 08:41 am: |
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G.Bone -> sorry, did not see that.
namor - interesting idea about the Ukrainian Kazakhstan |
Namor (metalist)
Registered Member
Username: metalist
Post Number: 128
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:43 am: |
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OTL Kazakhstan area. I claim that.
Name: Kazakhstan
Capital: Astana
Population: 80,000,000
Ethnicity: 55% Ukrainian, 25% Russia, 20% Kazakh.
Government type: One party democratic rule. (Democratic only inside the party, that is, party members vote on issues and their opinions and actions are accounted for)
Military force: 3,000,000 men in Army, 500,000 in the Air Force( in their world, airforce plays major and desisive role in any way)
Nuclear Arsenal: Around 1000 city busters, and 5000 tactical nukes.
Tech Level: Aproximatly 2010
This TL diverged from ours around 1500's. During that time, Russian Czars showed greater interest in Central Asia due to rich trade going on there and also due to strong Poland-Lithuania and Sweden. During that time, P-L controled modern day Ukraine and local peasants were persecuted strongly against. During the same time, Russian Czar offered Ukrainian Cossacks and peasant families free land in the northern steppes of recently conquered Kazakhstan, hoping that by populating the land, it will fall under his complete control faster. Many people took up that offer and settled there, developing large Ukrainian minority there. Ukrainian settlement of northern Kazakhstan continues on at a steady pace. Fast forward till 1930's and Stalin. This Stalin, little bit more humane than OTL Stalin, instead of starving off 8,000,000 Ukrainians, deports them to Kazakhstan. Still, his brutality makes people rise in revolts, which are brutally crushed. This causes for a deep hatred for Stalin. WW2 starts in 1940, except in this TL, Hitler gets the bomb in 1939. He blitzkrieg Poland and France and the rest of Europe. Hitler orders Britain to pull out of European affairs completly and when Britain refuses, he nukes London and two other major cities. Britain is economicly devastated so the give in. Hitler demands Baltics, Belorussia and Ukraine from Stalin, who refuses. Stalin gets the bomb late in 1940 and Hitler backs off for a while. There is a cold war in Europe between Nazi Germany and Soviet Union. During that time, Hitler works on producing as many nukes as possible. In 1950, he delivers a first strike on Russia, nuking Moscow, Leningrad, and 15 other major Russian cities which are located farther away from Ukraine, which is left alone. Hitler plans to make Ukraine his living space so there is no nukes used in Ukraine, so he launches conventioanl invasion. At the beggining, Ukrainians rise up and help Germans quickly expel Soviet troops. ITTL, Nazis are not as genocidal. Eventually, Soviet Union collapses, with most of it in nuclear ashes and in a middle of full blown starvation, but not before nuking several major German cities. During this time, tactical nukes were used widely on the battlefield, and casualties are more accepted. With the war over, Nazis begin theri "settlement" of Ukrainian land. Local people are horrified at the prospects of this forced extermination, but Nazi leadership (Hitler was killed by a russian nuke) offers Ukrainian people other option, move to Kazakstan, which was left largely untouched in the war. Majority of poeple move there by the trainload. During that previos war, almost all communist leadership was killed in nuclear strikes, however much of it's industrial base was moved to Siberea before tha war started. After the was was over, Siberea went to Japan as per agreement, and Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Kyrgistan went to Iran, Germany's ally. So once again, most of factories were moved to Kazakstan, along with many people who were into research. Another unexpected benefit were Gulags. Since Communist leadership was dead, their democratic opposition which was sentensed to Gulag went to Kazakhstan when Gulags were closed and Siberea went to Japan. Today, Kazakhstan is an Israel of sorts, with hostile Nazi Germany in Europe, Japan in Siberea and Iran in Central Asia surrounding it. One of their main allies in the Commonwealth of South Asia, consisting of Australia (bolstered by huge immigration from Britain), New Zeland, India, Indonesia and Indochina. It has a one party government, but it is not oppressive to people. People living here have developed siege mentality and are always strugling to imporve their country military wise.
Today, the coutry is highly industrialized with huge sector in R&D for military and general technology. It is very isolated from Outside world, except Commonwealth of South Asia. Kazakhstan had to develop very advance and strong army with strong nuclear arsenal that can crush their opponents who greatly outnumber them and people see it as a matter of national survival.
(Message edited by Metalist on October 06, 2003) |
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