A Scandinavian Religion

What if...

A Scandinavian competitor to Christianity arose around 850 - 950 BC? At what other time could this religion develop? What would be the results of this new northern religion on the events of the future in Europe? To what extent would this religion spread? How could it influence the Viking presence in North America (or whatever it would be named in TTL)? Would it eventually lose to Christianity anyways? Could it become isolated on the relatively self-sufficient island of Iceland (plus its constituent states in Greenland and North America)? Could it spread south into continental Europe (i.e. Germany, the Netherlands) or east into Russia, or southwest into the British Isles? Any other effects?


Some names to consider:

Uppsalism (after the chief temple in Old Uppsala, Sweden)

Odinism (after the chief god of Scandinavian mythology)

Thorism (after the god of thunder)

Freyism (after the god of prosperity)

early

Your a thousand years to soon. The Old Norse religion is suposse to be one of the fastest growing religons in the world today.

Loki Odinson [890- 977]

Loki Odinson [890- 977]

In 905 Young Odinson is captured during a raid on a Irish monastary, for the next fifteen years he lives there, learning to read and studing. One day while looking over some old manuscripts, he comes across a copy of the "Lost Books of Eden". As he reads them he thinks about the various church councils, and realizes that the bible was just someone writting down the stories. As he gets up to go to evening Mass, He sees the largest Raven he's ever seen., sitting in the window looking at him. In that moment he knows what he must do.

The next Morning he goes to the Abbott to get permission to travel back to Norway to spread the Fathers word. After thinking about it, the Abbott gives Christsson [the monks had chaged his name] Permission.

A year later[921] Odinson [he changed it back] arrives in Oslo, instead of preaching he listens. Visiting Norse Preists and Shamans, along with just folks, He starts Walking. Twenty years later he arrives back in Oslo, having walked around the Baltic.

Along the Way he had collected and written down all the Myths and stories about the Gods he could find. Not only the Norse, but the Baltic & Germanic variations, along with some of the Celt's. When ever he had felt discouraged, he would see a raven somewhere and take heart.

Arriving back in Oslo, [941] Odinson Starts doing what he told the Abbott 21 years back, he wanted to do. He Preachs what he beleives the Allfather has lead him to learn. He not only preachs, but he passes out copies of his Book where he has written down the tales he learned. Except he has rewritten, and reworked them into a single coherent great Story.

It is a Story of Virtue, morallity and the ways the Allfather wants his children in Midgard to live. Of course it is denoused by the Christian missionaries. He answers that this is for the Norse. The southern People have there Desert God, and they are welcome to worship him. But this is the Gods of the North, of the land of Ice and Snow. Take your desert God back south and leave us ours.

This strikes a Chord in the growing literate segament of Norse, and by 950, there are copies of his book all around the Baltic, with some copies reaching the Britian and around the North Sea. In 952 a Copy reaches Rome where the Pope, Immediatly Bans the Book. But its to Late.

In 984 several copies are carried to Iceland, where they are the main resource for teaching Reading. and in 992 on to Greenland, By 1000 They are even being used in north Germany & Holland, along with the Bible.

By 1200 The Cathalic & Russian Ortodox Churches realized that they had lost the Scandia & the eastern Baltic, and consentrated on preventing it's spread in Germany and across Siberia.

Today "The Way of the Aeisir" is accepted like Islam or Hinduism. And there are Scholars who use simularities between the Aeisir Storys and certain American Tribal tales to claim them as decendents of the lost Greenlanders.

One problem. His name. Loki, in Norse mythology, was the handsome giant who represented evil and was possessed of great knowledge and cunning. I don't think many pagan Scandinavians are going to treat the religious teachings of someone with the Norse quivalent of the name "Satan" very seriously. Can you imagine a (large) group of Christians converting to a religion taught by a man named Satan?

Other than that, it seems possible.

Isn't this basically the story of Harry Harrison's Hammer and the Cross series. ?? I mean Walter's general idea, not the TL which I actually find more interesting than Harrison's. There's no reason it can't be suggested and used again, of course.

There is a Dispute about how bad Loki was, I go with the Patron Saint of Pratical jokers. But OK We Will Change his Name How about Njord [Neptune].

NapoleonXIV said:

Isn't this basically the story of Harry Harrison's Hammer and the Cross series. ?? I mean Walter's general idea, not the TL which I actually find more interesting than Harrison's. There's no reason it can't be suggested and used again, of course.

Click to expand...

This is a book, I assume? Is it any good? Or is it like that shitty one about the AH Civil War with Britain (I forget the name at the moment)?

It's three books actually. If you don't like Harrison in general you probably won't like it, but Harrison is very popular and maybe you'd find his style fits Vikings better. I agree with you about his Stars and Stripes series, altho I just bought the third installment

I'll have to read that series. Are there any questions below that are not answered in it? If so, what do you think would happen with the arrival of a northern religion?

I like the timeline above. It actually appears more plausible than Harrison's to me.

DuQuense, would it be all right if I borrowed your basic idea to write a timeline/story of my own?

Scandanavian religion

Hist, the Norse religion was very similar to the pre-Christian Anglo-Saxons', with basically the same pantheon of gods albeit under slightly different names, and 1 can argue that there's still a significant degree of influence of old Teutonic mythology/religion in the names of the days of our week- Tuesday (Tiw, Norse god of war), Wednesday (Woden, the father god), Thursday (Thor, of course you all know him as the god of thunder), Firday (Freya, fertility goddess). There's also place-names to consider in such places as England, where there were such settlements as Thursby (Thor's farm), Thurston (town), Thurstable (pillar), Thursley (field ?) in homage to the specific individual gods. Had this Scandanavian religion continued to develop in your stipulated time period, such influences would've been even more pervasive.

GURPS - all a growing boy needs

In the GURPS sourcebook Alternate Earths 2, the Midgard setting (where Vikings conquer Byzantium in 860 and go on to dominate the world stage by the early 1400s) features Thorism (where Thor is the dominant God in a Catholic-like pantheon), Hvitakristers (a Christian splinter sect worshipping the 'Pale Christ'), as well as Islam, a stronger Judaism, a much-watered-down Christianity, and Zen-Buddhism. All of which are popular with Scandinavians.

And the 'Hammer & Cross' series is actually very good IMHO. Much, much better than the 'Stars & Stripes' series. Actually, a cold pile of dogshit is better than 'S&S', but hey, thats just my opinion. For an excellent Harrison novel, try 'Make Room! Make Room!', the basis for the Chuck Heston movie 'Soylent Green'. You'll never look at Spam or Cheez-Whiz the same way again.

Another alternative

I think the Balder Myth myth might have some potential. As a POD you need either a single charismatic leader or the two step deal where one guy goes around saying "The XYZ is coming" and then a generation someone else says "Listen up everyone I'm the prophecied XYZ". This happened in the first century but it also happened in the 19th with the Ba'hai religion. Another parallel is to Orphism which formalized a mixture of pagan relgion and mystical philosophy.

This is a good discussion. BTW the history channel is supposed to have a short series on the "Barbarians", including the Huns, Mongols, Vikings, and (my favorite) the Goths. I think it runs tonight.