Dominion of Southern America - Updated July 1, 2018

Map of the Population War 1935


Thanks for the map Glen. Is literally every country in the war or undergoing civil turmoil? Also, would you mind adding the names on the nations on each side. For example...

Red - Malthusian Manifesto Members
Ottoman Empire
Blue - Human League Members
United States of America
Purple - Nations in Civil Turmoil
 

Glen

Moderator
In TTL you have made the escalation clearly and indisputably the fault of the Malthusians alone. OTL was nothing like so simple.
Mostly them, true - though one might argue that the British could have just let the Indians go which might have made relations a bit better prior to the tragedy if the Olympics.

On the other hand we've seen wars OTL where the beligerence was clearly from one side - world war 2 springs to mind...
 

Glen

Moderator
Thanks for the map Glen. Is literally every country in the war or undergoing civil turmoil? Also, would you mind adding the names on the nations on each side. For example...

Red - Malthusian Manifesto Members
Ottoman Empire
Blue - Human League Members
United States of America
Purple - Nations in Civil Turmoil

Given the Malthusian position of "you're eother with us or against us" yes, though some are far more active than others.
 
What kind of victories are the two sides seeking? Do they see their opponents as rational actors with whom they can negotiate with, or do they see each other as irrational regimes that must be replaced by force and unconditional surrender?
 

Glen

Moderator
What kind of victories are the two sides seeking? Do they see their opponents as rational actors with whom they can negotiate with, or do they see each other as irrational regimes that must be replaced by force and unconditional surrender?

That's really a fascinating question.

The idealistic Malthusian leadership would accept peace if their opponents embraced Malthusian principles for population growth, joining the Malthusian international community - barring that they seek to overthrow governments who refuse and replace them with pro-Malthusian leaders either by promoting local revolutionary Malthusians or by occupation if need be. There are some in the Malthusian camp who are also looking to take the traditional powers like Britain down a peg or two but will be wIlling to negotiate a peace.

In a weird way the war is a win-win for the true believer Malthusian - either by promoting increasing adherence to Malthusian principles to curb population growth or by reducing the global population by war attrition.

Their opponents on the other hand are going to seek to punish the Malthusian leaders who they see as rabid extremists who would tear down the world. The idea of unconditional surrender isn't part of TTLs political zeitgeist but they are going to want harsh terms - unless they get so worn down that they just need to end it...
 

Glen

Moderator
The 19th Century had been good to the Sultanate of Morocco under the Alawite Dynasty. By the end of the 19th century Morocco had formed it's own national legislature composed of the House of the Amghars and the Makhzen. Clashes with the modernizing Ottoman Empire on Morocco's Eastern Border had led to Morocco's own military modernization, mostly drawing on advisors from the United States, British Empire, and German Empire. One of the main pillars of Moroccan Foreign Policy was the close relations with the United States of America, seen as a rich trade partner and an ally far enough away to not be tempted to encroach on Moroccan sovereignty.

Sultan Mohammed V came to the throne of Morocco in 1930 and continued the successful policies of his forefathers, and thus when the Population War spread to involve their traditional ally America while at the same time regional rivals Spain and the Ottoman Empire sided with the Malthusian cause, it was inevitable that Morocco would side with the Americans. By 1935 Morocco was fully mobilized and engaged in a heated border battle with the Ottomans by land, and supplied air and naval aid to the counterattack of the British and Portuguese against Malthusian Spain.

While the Moroccan military had a rough time of things against the Ottomans in 1935, as their commanders gained more experience and they were bolstered by equipment and allies from America (and some specialized desert units from the Dominion and Australia), they were able to repulse the Ottoman troops in the area and pierce deep into Northern Africa. The Turk dominated Malthusian Ottoman leadership had by that time managed to alienate the North African tribes who chafed against Malthusian encroachment on their traditional freedoms, as well as the perception that Istanbul was using Malthusian measures discriminatorily against non-Turks who had a higher rate of population growth in recent decades than the Turks of the Empire. By the beginning of 1936, much of Northern Africa was embracing occupying Moroccan forces and calling for annexation by the Moroccan Sultanate. Some claim this was the impetus for the Ottomans to finally start using Sartrite and Parisite in that theatre, especially in the defense of Egypt.

Sultan Mohammed V of Morocco during the Population War
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Did the Dominion ever get a proper flag? I just realized I don't think I've seen one for it posted beyond the '20th Century attempts' using the red ensign. I'm reading the TL right now, so does anyone know when/where/if the official flag was ever posted?
 
What I would love to see is for the Human League to win. And in that victory I want the Ottoman Empire to stay intact. I also want Morocco to be incorporated into it, but with the Royal family of Morocco replacing the current Ottoman Dynasty. In this scenario you could have Morocco be in personal union with the Ottoman Empire, with the Sultan of Morocco being the heir apparent of a Caliph in Constantinople.
 

Glen

Moderator
Did the Dominion ever get a proper flag? I just realized I don't think I've seen one for it posted beyond the '20th Century attempts' using the red ensign. I'm reading the TL right now, so does anyone know when/where/if the official flag was ever posted?
Not yet - anyone want to take a stab at it based off of the 20th century attempts?
 

Glen

Moderator
What I would love to see is for the Human League to win. And in that victory I want the Ottoman Empire to stay intact. I also want Morocco to be incorporated into it, but with the Royal family of Morocco replacing the current Ottoman Dynasty. In this scenario you could have Morocco be in personal union with the Ottoman Empire, with the Sultan of Morocco being the heir apparent of a Caliph in Constantinople.

What an intriguing idea - however you should recall that the capital is called Istambul not Constantinople, and that removal of the current dynasty is not likely enough to purge the pro-Malthusian forces in the Ottoman Empire...on the other hand, the two efforts aren't mutually exclusive...
 
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