I remember following Harry and Meghan’s engagement, there were reports coming out that their marriage wasn’t the first time the British royal family had someone with African ancestry marry into their family. It was said that Queen Charlotte, wife of King George III, had a moor ancestor, which made her biracial or at least mixed race. But from what I’ve heard, there was at least more than a century apart from any ancestors that could’ve been non white, unless there were closer examples I haven’t heard about. I know that there were portraits of her that seemed to portray her as having African, or at least non white features, but would they really show that far down? Did people back then consider her mixed race? I don’t want to dictate what race someone should belong to based on bloodlines, I’m just wondering if it’s accurate to consider Charlotte of Mecklenberg-Strelitz mixed race.
Was Queen Charlotte mixed race?
- Thread starter Irrisa
- Start date
It is not just her but also Philippa of Hainault, they have some black ancestry due to them having ancestry from North Africa, they are as black as Ted Cruz.
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So no, they weren't mixed race. Calling them mixed race is as silly as calling the current crown princess of the Netherlands mixed race, since her mother is Latina.
I agree.
Corrected my statement earlier.
Although both Philippa and Charlotte have North African ancestry so there is some black ancestry somewhere but that makes them as black as Ted Cruz, it is like calling Robert De Niro, Elisabetta Canalis, or Stallone black due to being Sicilian or Sardinian which also have some mixing with North Africans which have been mixing with blacks as well.
According to this Guardian article at least
Stuart Jeffries: Was the consort of George III Britain's first black queen?
Stuart Jeffries: Queen Charlotte was the wife of George III and, like him, of German descent. But did she also have African ancestry?
www.theguardian.com
And that is not considering that, while a north african may be considered a black person in an anglo context, in a Mediterranean one they can easily pass for white.
When you go far back you eventually find African ancestor. We all have African blood no matter where we are living.
But more seriously it is possible that British royals (and such all European royals) have some connections to Moors and there is even claims Prophet Mohammed being Charles III's ancestor but this is pretty much unproven.
There is useful and intresting Youtube video about topic:
But more seriously it is possible that British royals (and such all European royals) have some connections to Moors and there is even claims Prophet Mohammed being Charles III's ancestor but this is pretty much unproven.
There is useful and intresting Youtube video about topic:
The entire concept of who is white and who is not is obviously extremely arbitrary. At different times and different places different criteria were and are used. Currently it is in vogue to try to exclude as many people from being white as possible.
That whole argument just smacks of that one-drop rule stuff.
400 years is at far too much of a removal to count. This would be like saying that Queen Sylvia of Sweden is Native American or mixed race because she is descended from a certain Tupi chief that lived over 400 years ago.
400 years is at far too much of a removal to count. This would be like saying that Queen Sylvia of Sweden is Native American or mixed race because she is descended from a certain Tupi chief that lived over 400 years ago.
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Exactly. And through generations some non-European ancestry would be impossible even notice. And like I said earlier if we go far far back of time, we eventually find African ancestor.
I don't really know what even is motivation of this thread.
So she had as much moorish ancestry as half of Europe by the 18th century.According to this Guardian article at least
Her Moorish Blood was the Mistress of a Portuguese King in the 13th century.Stuart Jeffries: Was the consort of George III Britain's first black queen?
Stuart Jeffries: Queen Charlotte was the wife of George III and, like him, of German descent. But did she also have African ancestry?
As for Phillipa of Hainault the idea that she was mixed race comes from this description as far as I can tell by Bishop Stapledon
""The lady whom we saw has not uncomely hair, betwixt blue-black and brown. Her head is cleaned shaped; her forehead high and broad, and standing somewhat forward. Her face narrows between the eyes, and the lower part of her face is still more narrow and slender than the forehead. Her eyes are blackish-brown and deep. Her nose is fairly smooth and even, save that is somewhat broad at the tip and flattened, yet it is no snub nose. Her nostrils are also broad, her mouth fairly wide. Her lips somewhat full and especially the lower lip…all her limbs are well set and unmaimed, and nought is amiss so far as a man may see. Moreover, she is brown of skin all over, and much like her father, and in all things she is pleasant enough, as it seems to us."
Which may not even have been a desription of Phillipa but of her sister...and well, in any case it strikes me as pretty ahistorical here to assume that "brown" here means she was of African descent.
Really it's pretty shaky.
""The lady whom we saw has not uncomely hair, betwixt blue-black and brown. Her head is cleaned shaped; her forehead high and broad, and standing somewhat forward. Her face narrows between the eyes, and the lower part of her face is still more narrow and slender than the forehead. Her eyes are blackish-brown and deep. Her nose is fairly smooth and even, save that is somewhat broad at the tip and flattened, yet it is no snub nose. Her nostrils are also broad, her mouth fairly wide. Her lips somewhat full and especially the lower lip…all her limbs are well set and unmaimed, and nought is amiss so far as a man may see. Moreover, she is brown of skin all over, and much like her father, and in all things she is pleasant enough, as it seems to us."
Which may not even have been a desription of Phillipa but of her sister...and well, in any case it strikes me as pretty ahistorical here to assume that "brown" here means she was of African descent.
Really it's pretty shaky.
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This theory first appeared in the 1940s in a book written by Joel Augustus Rogers but this was based on one portrait he had seen of Charlotte. Mario Valdes in the 1990s presented "evidence" that Rogers had been correct in his claim by proposing that Charlotte descended from a branch of the Castro e Souza family whose members were POC.
However, Valdes' findings were never substantiated. He then said that even if the link to the Castro e Souzas could not be proven (and it never has been to my knowledge), he had found evidence elsewhere in a letter written by Prince Albert's private secretary Baron Stockmar that Charlotte had "a true mulatto face".
Valdes ran with this as further proof that he and Rogers were correct in describing Queen Charlotte as being a POC but in fact, it's a mistranslation and a rather ugly one at that. It's based in a racial slur which appears frequently in Germany at this time and was applied to people who were dying of jaundice.
In other words Queen Charlotte, even if she did have some black ancestry, certainly would have appeared to her contemporaries as being just another white German princess.
However, Valdes' findings were never substantiated. He then said that even if the link to the Castro e Souzas could not be proven (and it never has been to my knowledge), he had found evidence elsewhere in a letter written by Prince Albert's private secretary Baron Stockmar that Charlotte had "a true mulatto face".
Valdes ran with this as further proof that he and Rogers were correct in describing Queen Charlotte as being a POC but in fact, it's a mistranslation and a rather ugly one at that. It's based in a racial slur which appears frequently in Germany at this time and was applied to people who were dying of jaundice.
In other words Queen Charlotte, even if she did have some black ancestry, certainly would have appeared to her contemporaries as being just another white German princess.
There's good odds (pratically certain) everyone alive today with English ancestry is a descendant of Edward III, and that everyone with European ancestry is descended from Charlemagne.
Mohammed lived a millenia and a half ago, so I can quite believe he is an ancestor of King Charles III. Probably me as well, and a massive chunk of the world's population.
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I wonder how much of this "brown = African" thing is simply because most westerners now work indoors all the time, and those who do go outside often put suncream on. A person working outside all day can get pretty brown, especially in the southern parts of Europe. Roman frescoes often depict soldiers as being pretty well-tanned (example 1, 2, 3), and there's a reason why having pale skin was seen as a distinguishing mark of wealthy people who didn't need to labour in the fields. Philippa's brown skin might simply be a sign that she liked outdoor activities and was somewhat tanned as a result.
It really hard trace anyone's descendants who lived almost 1600 years ago but if Attila has descendants still on nowadays, likelyhood that every European-descent is his descendant is pretty huge.