What alternate history ideas you wish they were used more often?

[Aluma]

1: Is "New Zealand" still created?

2: Assuming "New Zealand" isn't a thing

Kinda makes me wish there was a TL on New Zealand never being populated by humans

Like the Maori never find their way there through sheer luck and when the european do they report that the land is devoid of people and any interesting resource, comparing to the boreal forests in Siberia minus the cold and so its left alone

Like not in the format of a typical TL as it kinda wouldnt work without the focus on people, but instead being like those Discovery documentaries focusing more on the ecosystem and the individual lives of the animals, "humanizing" them which is something I always found great about nature shows

 

[Mitridates the Great]

Yeah since May 2021
And with authority? Thats new!
My friends here always say Im a little chaotic if not akward but thats a first
Thanks, I guess? x3

In fact I'll never use authority to depict your style but same for me...

 

[Mitridates the Great]

Kinda makes me wish there was a TL on New Zealand never being populated by humans

Like the Maori never find their way there through sheer luck and when the european do they report that the land is devoid of people and any interesting resource, comparing to the boreal forests in Siberia minus the cold and so its left alone

Like not in the format of a typical TL as it kinda wouldnt work without the focus on people, but instead being like those Discovery documentaries focusing more on the ecosystem and the individual lives of the animals, "humanizing" them which is something I always found great about nature shows

Highly unlikely that someone would just leave a habitable territory like that abandoned. We're trying to colonize Antarctica, for God's sake. So Australians move there and achieve their dream of a "White Australia".

 

[Aluma]

Highly unlikely that someone would just leave a habitable territory like that abandoned. We're trying to colonize Antarctica, for God's sake.

I dont think anyone is seriously trying to colonize that
Besides it was deemed a scientific exploration-only continent despite being much larger than either NZ or Australia

So Australians move there and achieve their dream of a "White Australia".

Now thats just dystopic, geez

 

[KingSweden24]

Maybe this scenario is ASB but how about, in France, no revolution breaks out in 1848 & Louis-Philippe is not overthrown. This would probably butterfly away Napoleon III- or would it? What would L-P(& his heirs) foreign policy be? No alliance with England in 1854 to fight Russia in Crimea? Do Italy- & even more importantly, Germany- still unify? (My guess is yes, but @ different times then IOTL, quite probably leading to them becoming different types of nations than the ones we now know- which could perhaps
butterfly away WWI?) Finally, what of France itself? Does it still become a Republic? Develop into a con-
stitutional monarchy along the lines of Great Britan? Or fall under the sway of a dictator, a yes, Napoleon
III type? (I could see De Gaulle becoming exactly this in some AU). As you see, the ramifications of this Revolution not happening are many indeed!

This would be a great hook

 

[HumptyDumpty]

I recently read that one of the reasons why the Republican Party started off being so anti-slavery is that, during the earliest phases of the party, the party was driven by elements we would consider in other contexts to be socialist. Some of the people involved in the first meeting in Ripon, Wisconsin had ties of various sorts to the Fourierist settlement of Ceresco (Fourierism was a kind of proto-anarchism btw), which had been absorbed by Ripon only a few years before.

A cool TL would be one where these socialist elements never died off and the Republican party continued to align itself with labor movements, feminist movements, etc. A stronger socialist movement in the US might suffice, perhaps something like the Knights of Labor and its Cooperative Commonwealth exists earlier, or there are more European socialist immigrants to the US. That might be enough to make the Republican party stick to socialism or leftism.

How this effects the Democrat party might be very interesting to read; it might be the case that the US ends up with two main leftist parties, one more radical while the other center-left. Or their positions might be switched from OTL.

 

[Aluma]

I recently read that one of the reasons why the Republican Party started off being so anti-slavery is that, during the earliest phases of the party, the party was driven by elements we would consider in other contexts to be socialist. Some of the people involved in the first meeting in Ripon, Wisconsin had ties of various sorts to the Fourierist settlement of Ceresco (Fourierism was a kind of proto-anarchism btw), which had been absorbed by Ripon only a few years before.

A cool TL would be one where these socialist elements never died off and the Republican party continued to align itself with labor movements, feminist movements, etc. A stronger socialist movement in the US might suffice, perhaps something like the Knights of Labor and its Cooperative Commonwealth exists earlier, or there are more European socialist immigrants to the US. That might be enough to make the Republican party stick to socialism or leftism.

How this effects the Democrat party might be very interesting to read; it might be the case that the US ends up with two main leftist parties, one more radical while the other center-left. Or their positions might be switched from OTL.

Rather than OTL Socialism maybe you could have an alternate left wing republican ideology
Like a "Neo-Fourierism" of sorts

 

[Concerned Brazilian]

Antarctica being habitable

 

[HumptyDumpty]

Rather than OTL Socialism maybe you could have an alternate left wing republican ideology
Like a "Neo-Fourierism" of sorts

I don't think they'd call it Fourierism. It'd probably still be called socialism. By the 1860s, socialism was a sort of umbrella term for all sorts of radical ideologies and once again the Fourierists were just one, albeit significant, part of the party. In this ATL, we'd need more socialist thinkers of all stripes in the Republican Party.

One of the things to note is that, like all radical and anti-authoritarian ideologies, a political party isn't well-suited for that. So the radicalism of the Republican Party in this ATL depends upon the success of labor unions, cooperative economies, and intentional communities and their capacity to form a solid constituency or voter base for the Republicans. Depending on the success of these counter-organizations, you might just end up with something similar to the Republicans OTL.

 

[Aluma]

I don't think they'd call it Fourierism. It'd probably still be called socialism

Yup, I just meant it would be something different from OTL Socialism, maybe descending from Fourierism
I dont think it'd have that name either

By the 1860s, socialism was a sort of umbrella term for all sorts of radical ideologies

Makes sense, though it would probably get a unique label to differentiate it from other forms of Socialism like how IOTL we got "Scientific Socialism" then "Marxism" "Marxism-Lenism" "Soviet Socialism" "Democratic Socialism" "Libertarian Socialism" to make those stand out from the rest
No idea what that label would be though

One of the things to note is that, like all radical and anti-authoritarian ideologies, a political party isn't well-suited for that. So the radicalism of the Republican Party in this ATL depends upon the success of labor unions, cooperative economies, and intentional communities and their capacity to form a solid constituency or voter base for the Republicans. Depending on the success of these counter-organizations, you might just end up with something similar to the Republicans OTL

Hard agree

 

[HumptyDumpty]

Yup, I just meant it would be something different from OTL Socialism, maybe descending from Fourierism

Not entirely. Fourier influenced Proudhon who would later go onto essentially create anarchism. Anarchism later had a profound impact on Marxism (though moreso because Bakunin opposed Marx rather than due to Marx taking anything from anarchism). What anarchists at least call "free association" is what Fourier called "following ones passions". I don't think things would be too different internationally but socialism in the US would be very different. Both in terms of how the public thinks about socialism and historical events later on. Needless to say, one of the two only political parties in the US being openly socialist would have very significant consequences on international relations of the US with other countries, the Soviet Union, etc.

 

[Aluma]

Not entirely. Fourier influenced Proudhon who would later go onto essentially create anarchism. Anarchism later had a profound impact on Marxism (though moreso because Bakunin opposed Marx rather than due to Marx taking anything from anarchism). What anarchists at least call "free association" is what Fourier called "following ones passions".

Interesting
So maybe being a more direct descendant of it would make TTL American Socialism similar to Proudhon's Mutualism?
Like imagining a mutualist republican party sounds very wild

 

[Mildtryth]

Antarctica being habitable

Pulling that would probably lead to a largely irrecognizable world, given how different the world climate would have to be to allow that.

The other option is the Antarctic plate moving north millions of years ago, but that also runs into the same problem.

 

[HumptyDumpty]

Interesting
So maybe being a more direct descendant of it would make TTL American Socialism similar to Proudhon's Mutualism?
Like imagining a mutualist republican party sounds very wild

Not similar to mutualism (and Proudhon himself never used the word). Fourier was before Proudhon, not after. What it's similar to doesn't generally matter since socialist ideas grew and changed alot over time. I doubt a Republican Party influenced by Fourier is going to be dogmatically attached to Fourier. It's more likely that its character will be influenced by the burgeoning socialist movement.

 

[Xel]

Wow. Very interesting. I have a very hard time imagining this or suspending disbelief at great powers/colonizers largely keeping hands off Australia while things largely go on as they did like OTL with a world of space-filling empires. But maybe that's my anchoring bias from OTL. No, definitely is. And the idea is still quite interesting.

Thanks, I am glad you think so!

I get where you're coming from there and as I said, forever is a long time and empires did love painting countries in their flag. But by the same token, that was usually heavily reliant on there being resources to exploit or grow there, which the continent doesn't obviously have from a European perspective. Thus I figure there'd always be a strong contingent against doing so at least up until the early modern era.

I was musing on this a bit more and had some ideas though:
As noted in my original post there's still be certain traders who would go there, and depending on the sea voyages travelling by, I could easily see sealers and such heading down if they thought it could be profitable. This would rely on ships naturally passing near enough to the continent as I doubt anyone would chart a ship just for that, but still.

There's also as noted the option for criminals and revolutionaries and other nominal exiles to try and set up shop on the continent, its "lawless" in the sense no one respects the local inhabitants enough to care about their laws, and its very out of the way. This would make it both a bit pricey to get to, but also an excellent place to hide out, too vast to really be found in, too disconnected to be easily tracked too.

Then there's of course the bastards, super rich merchants who wanna try and find wealth, slaver traders who want to avoid the usual areas for one reason or another.

And finally there's those who might flee to a place beyond the domain of the worlds empire, be they genuine minorities be it of a race, ethnicity or some other facet, or fringe cult like factions that want to try starting their own nations outside the purview of the great powers.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

The unified Arab state.

Yes, I know that this has been used many times to paint maps. But I was thinking of a different take.

The usual take that we see is that it is a Caliphate that is practically Daesh but gigantic, hated by all (which does not prevent them from continuing to buy oil from them), which is dedicated to exporting terrorists like other countries export workers, and with advanced technology which justifies (badly) why no one has tried to invade them yet.

The version I propose would be a less radical one. What if the Arabs achieve their goal of a pan-Arab state in WW1 or the 19th century? A nation that does not focus its efforts on annihilating its minorities for "not praying correctly" or on an absurd "jihad" against the rest of the world. A real country, not a "meme-state" full of terrorists and slaves.

This kind of state would probably end up becoming a giant version of Lebanon, but at least this time they wouldn't be being attacked by their neighbors.

Although as a butterfly it is very possible that Israel does not exist (it is doubtful that "Dar Al-Arab" would voluntarily give up the strip of land where the Holy City is if they manage to get that territory...)

 

[raharris1973]

Things that would be interesting to see -

A somewhat fleshed out scenario of an alternate Anglo-America that either dodges chattel slavery entirely, or ends it decisively early, after a relatively brief period of no more than a century or century and half.....but that has the following kicker: along the way the society picks up some *other* quite ugly dystopian institutional flaw making most readers glad we don't have to live there.

One could re-play the same thing extending it to Ibero-America, or Euro-America writ large, to extend the affect to Brazil, Caribbean, and the Spanish Main.

Another thing that would be interesting to see -

A somewhat fleshed out timeline where the American Revolution is headed off, not by the British Empire conceding everything to the colonies, or something like the Galloway Plan, or coming up with latter-day self-governing Dominion systems early, but instead where Britain:

a) Gets to impose a benign central taxation administration from the beginning, or gradually over a set of decades from some point in the early 1700s or in the 1600s, and gets the Colonists used to the idea of the 'virtual representation' idea. Britain treads on the snake by boiling it slowly! Not leaving the 13 Colonies alone in the pantry for 150 years and then showing it the tax collection boiling pot like OTL.

b) Britain never faces anything quite like OTL's American Revolution because elites of different colonies and regions of the seaboard never discover the commonality of common grievances and gain the confidence that they would have the support of their whole communities, much less, all the other colonies, in measures like the anti-British boycott, Stamp Act Congress, Continental Congress, forming a pseudo government and army, rebelling and ultimately declaring independence. All the seaboard colonies elites getting themselves on a pretty similar page, without a similarly scaled local opposition was a quite remarkable thing - the colonies being divided and all on different pages is truly an under-examined scenario.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

Things that would be interesting to see -

A somewhat fleshed out scenario of an alternate Anglo-America that either dodges chattel slavery entirely, or ends it decisively early, after a relatively brief period of no more than a century or century and half.....but that has the following kicker: along the way the society picks up some *other* quite ugly dystopian institutional flaw making most readers glad we don't have to live there.

One could re-play the same thing extending it to Ibero-America, or Euro-America writ large, to extend the affect to Brazil, Caribbean, and the Spanish Main.

Another thing that would be interesting to see -

A somewhat fleshed out timeline where the American Revolution is headed off, not by the British Empire conceding everything to the colonies, or something like the Galloway Plan, or coming up with latter-day self-governing Dominion systems early, but instead where Britain:

a) Gets to impose a benign central taxation administration from the beginning, or gradually over a set of decades from some point in the early 1700s or in the 1600s, and gets the Colonists used to the idea of the 'virtual representation' idea. Britain treads on the snake by boiling it slowly! Not leaving the 13 Colonies alone in the pantry for 150 years and then showing it the tax collection boiling pot like OTL.

b) Britain never faces anything quite like OTL's American Revolution because elites of different colonies and regions of the seaboard never discover the commonality of common grievances and gain the confidence that they would have the support of their whole communities, much less, all the other colonies, in measures like the anti-British boycott, Stamp Act Congress, Continental Congress, forming a pseudo government and army, rebelling and ultimately declaring independence. All the seaboard colonies elites getting themselves on a pretty similar page, without a similarly scaled local opposition was a quite remarkable thing - the colonies being divided and all on different pages is truly an under-examined scenario.

I suspect that's for the same reason there are hardly any "no French revolution" scenarios: people think it would be too difficult to model a world where absolutism continues to rule unchallenged.

In addition to the fact that in many cases these people want the United States to exist, either because they admire it or because they are Americans themselves.

It's not helped because the few alternative histories published that cover this kind of scenario (Pavana, The Two Georges, etc) either treat it as some horrendous dystopia or have it end with the Revolution breaking out anyway but later.

Which cements the already solid belief that revolution is basically inevitable.

 

[VVD0D95]

I’d love to see what a continued Mughal dynasty in the modern day looks like. Meaning one where it either never declines or recovers sufficiently to not fall to British colonisation.

ib the former a Mughal dynasty ruling over the subcontinent would be dope.

in the latter, the emperor ruling over northern, central, eastern and maybe western and north western India would be fun.

 

[NedStark]

I recently read that one of the reasons why the Republican Party started off being so anti-slavery is that, during the earliest phases of the party, the party was driven by elements we would consider in other contexts to be socialist. Some of the people involved in the first meeting in Ripon, Wisconsin had ties of various sorts to the Fourierist settlement of Ceresco (Fourierism was a kind of proto-anarchism btw), which had been absorbed by Ripon only a few years before.

A cool TL would be one where these socialist elements never died off and the Republican party continued to align itself with labor movements, feminist movements, etc. A stronger socialist movement in the US might suffice, perhaps something like the Knights of Labor and its Cooperative Commonwealth exists earlier, or there are more European socialist immigrants to the US. That might be enough to make the Republican party stick to socialism or leftism.

How this effects the Democrat party might be very interesting to read; it might be the case that the US ends up with two main leftist parties, one more radical while the other center-left. Or their positions might be switched from OTL.

Alternatively, you can keep the Know Nothings as the main opposition and have its Massachusetts wing dominate the party. Northern Know Nothings, especially in Massachusetts, had quite a strong progressive streak that actually became policies during their brief reign in 1855.