Prince Henry of Prussia: The Rise of U-Boat.

Deimos

Banned
Hm, I looked at the numbers and found them to be too small to do what I expected of the Germans.
I thought they would march with all the subtlety of an autobahn into the colonies they annexed but had yet not conquered and start flogging people for not sending their children immediately to school.

I was using these indicators:
The bulk of the marines and air force will be in Kamerun, and will be available to defend Douala in case of war.
35,00-45,000 troops
The minor bases will be [...] Ascension Island, Lagos, Banana, Luanda, Lobito, Namibe, Walvis Bay, and Dar Es Salaam.
roughly 2,000 each - meaning 16,000 troops

I was guessing 10,000 troops for administering Nigeria, Togoland, Spanish Guinea and the bulge to the west from there.

4,000 additional troops in East Africa for training reservists of loyal tribes

4,000 troops for administering Angola as a police force

1,000 troops for all the Zeppelin forces in the whole of the colonies


Makes 20,000 active personnel left of 100,000. The force publique in the Belgian Congo was a force of 19,000 men but as I said above I expected the Kaiser to demand his new colonies to be as enlightened as his rule had been in the other German colonies and thus needing additional forces and to show the flag and bring progress to the newly acquired "place in the sun".


Anyway, that was just my thought process. With most of the territories only being "very very lightly controlled" you throw that out of the window.
 
Hm, I looked at the numbers and found them to be too small to do what I expected of the Germans.
I thought they would march with all the subtlety of an autobahn into the colonies they annexed but had yet not conquered and start flogging people for not sending their children immediately to school.

It depends on what you need the money for. A "police" force would likely be possible, as the Kaiser would get the votes of the socialists and liberals for such tasks.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Hm, I looked at the numbers and found them to be too small to do what I expected of the Germans.
I thought they would march with all the subtlety of an autobahn into the colonies they annexed but had yet not conquered and start flogging people for not sending their children immediately to school.

I was using these indicators:

35,00-45,000 troops

roughly 2,000 each - meaning 16,000 troops

I was guessing 10,000 troops for administering Nigeria, Togoland, Spanish Guinea and the bulge to the west from there.

4,000 additional troops in East Africa for training reservists of loyal tribes

4,000 troops for administering Angola as a police force

1,000 troops for all the Zeppelin forces in the whole of the colonies


Makes 20,000 active personnel left of 100,000. The force publique in the Belgian Congo was a force of 19,000 men but as I said above I expected the Kaiser to demand his new colonies to be as enlightened as his rule had been in the other German colonies and thus needing additional forces and to show the flag and bring progress to the newly acquired "place in the sun".


Anyway, that was just my thought process. With most of the territories only being "very very lightly controlled" you throw that out of the window.

Thanks for the feedback.

I am working on 250K men in the African Marines plus say 9K naval air force plus the crews of the ships. Since the German navy had around 100K prewar in the navy, we are looking at say 1/3 to 1/2 that number in Africa. Call it 40K men. So we are just short of 300K about half active, half reserve. This would be a good 40% of Germany preWW1 army levels if we only count the active army. Now what do I figure I get for this with the Marines which will do the bulk of the dirty work. About 2000 men per regiment is right, so in theory we could have 125 regiments, but there is always a lot of administrative units plus smaller needed units that are not combat units - hospitals, training commands, military police, military jail, etc. So I would say about 100 regiments of infantry, armored cars, artillery, combat engineers, and cavalry is about right, of which 40 are active.

So now to how I write the TL and some writing goals. I wanted to explore various topics in WW1, so this largely drove the POD that I chose. I am largely past these topics, and I have a place I want to take the story. IMO, we can end up with naval age that looks a lot different from ours. Where different funding choices have been made, so some weapons are moved up decades and other have delayed funding. If you look at what the Germans are funding, it should be obvious where I am going. (It is at least if you are the writer. ;) ) The reason I have it here instead of putting it into a normal thread is it takes so much time to explain what I see, it is easier to do in a thread like this one. IMO, a lot of what dominates the composition of navies today comes from what the USA and USSR experienced in WW2. If you have different experiences, I think you get a different end game. After I have finished this thread in a year or two, people can say if what I see happening was reasonable.

I also enjoy the richness of mistakes in TL. IMO, too many TL are "lets have someone have a mistake free 20 years", when in reality, most leaders in charge for 20 or more years make many mistakes. Some of the things I have Germany doing are clear mistakes to me, but I don't want to give too many spoilers.

I also enjoyed writing against resource constraints. A lot of the this TL is based on some of the post war books by major military leaders where they talked about having many things they need to do, but only being able to do a few of them due to limitations in resources - men, ammo, food, money. So it is not that I think what you are saying is unwise, but there is simply not enough resources to do it all. So to the specifics you bring up.

1) The colonial marines are the backup to the colonial police. Marine come out the military budget. Police comes out of the colonial office budget. I am leaving out the colonial office to make the story manageable. Part of the reason that I took a break from the story is it was getting a bit unmanageable for me due to scope creep. This step is to try to manage the scope.

2) Now the colonial office. What do I see in broad terms? It is horribly chaotic now. There are huge fights in the parliament over funding levels. They naively believe the will make a profit on these colonies. The levels of officers, police, and other colonial officials is similar to other colonial nations, and they are probably copying the British model - the best of the Colonizer.

The reasons I spend a lot of time on the infrastructure and the marines is to advance the story. First, to keep realistic limits on what the Germans do in the next war. Second, Germany is truly building a native army compared to what say the British do in India. It has benefits and downsides. They will in many ways have a more loyal and better colonial army, but they have to make accommodations with corp commanders who happen to be nobility of various tribes. Third, I need to know where the troops are when the next war starts. I could keep this on a sheet of paper, but it seem interesting enough to put in the TL.


3) I was thinking 2K to 5K military per port, and closer to 60,000 troops not in Kamerun. Von Schultze is trying to get enough troops to keep the locals from considering rebellion, but not to be lavish. He also wants enough troops in place to deter the RN from considering any preemptive attacks should a war come. It is important to remember that he has to defend an area as big as Europe or North America with a tiny army for the job. He is gambling that strong defense of the entry ports will deter foreign aggression. And that with the rail network being built, he can send enough men into the interior to crush any revolt fast.

And this is how I get to "very lightly controlled". He would love to have a much bigger army, but the Kaiser would just fire him if he asked. And the Reichstag would not fund it. So he has the ports controlled. He has Kamerun well controlled with 150K men there active and reserve. When the colonial administration ask for help, he will be able to provide decisive help. To him, it looks like a good plan.

4) And to manpower. I would suspect the total manpower under German government payroll would be near to 400K. 300K in navy, 100K in colonial office and other departments. The population of MittelAfrika is lot less than India which had 100K Englishment there. Now this is not a totally fair comparison since I am picking up blacks, but the blacks are more loyal than the Indians of this time frame.

As to Europeans, there are probably up to 100K German white military personnel in Africa and at least 50K white who immigrated to Kamerun by the end of the war. And there will be additional immigration post war. But yes, German control is both powerful and fragile in Africa.



I hope this helps.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
It depends on what you need the money for. A "police" force would likely be possible, as the Kaiser would get the votes of the socialists and liberals for such tasks.

Well there is a couple of tough things politically about MittelAfrika. It is the curse of getting what you wished for. First, they the colonies to pay for themselves and to earn a profit. In reality, they will largely be a drag on the German economy. Second, they need Germans to move to the colonies, which means subsidies, which means more money spent. Third, they spent around 400 million marks industrializing Kamerun. It was loved at the time by the public because it helped win the war and help save German lives. But over time, the benefits will be forgotten. The Germans will want a return on invest on this industrialization, which they largely will not get. Worse yet, cheap African labor will be competing with German labor in the German trade zone. There are a host of problems, just like India was complicated for the UK or Latin America has been a mixed bag for the USA. But these will not be covered in great detail, since I plan to make the rest of the TL focused more on the naval aspects and future wars.
 
Well there is a couple of tough things politically about MittelAfrika. It is the curse of getting what you wished for. First, they the colonies to pay for themselves and to earn a profit. In reality, they will largely be a drag on the German economy. Second, they need Germans to move to the colonies, which means subsidies, which means more money spent. Third, they spent around 400 million marks industrializing Kamerun. It was loved at the time by the public because it helped win the war and help save German lives. But over time, the benefits will be forgotten. The Germans will want a return on invest on this industrialization, which they largely will not get. Worse yet, cheap African labor will be competing with German labor in the German trade zone. There are a host of problems, just like India was complicated for the UK or Latin America has been a mixed bag for the USA.

The return on investment will be a focus of the rightists and liberals, Zentrum and SPD will likely not be that concerned but rather take a humanitarian approach, possibly competing for influence over the locals: SPD promoting marxism and Zentrum promoting catholicism could mean that both try to get money into the colonies for non-military goals. Another important thing to consider is that there are quite a number of African voters now. With German colonists added, possibly some Jews, and more and more Africans getting the vote they'll have representation in Berlin, something the US or Britain never had to deal with in their backwaters. It will be very interesting to see how this develops. I'd expect a mixture of clonial regimes: Cameroon and the other core territories will be developped to a point unseen so far in Africa, but large parts of the Congo won't see much change.

But these will not be covered in great detail, since I plan to make the rest of the TL focused more on the naval aspects and future wars.

:(
 
The naval commands in Africa will be reorganized to match the 4 colonial administrative units. Overall commander remains in Douala.

Bases: To lower costs, a rationalization and standardization of naval bases will occur into 3 major bases (fortified ports with drydocks) and 13 minor bases (fortified ports with limited support abilities). The major bases shall be Wilhelmshaven, Danzig and Douala. The minor bases will be Riga (F), Konigsberg, Haifa (F), Duba (F), Ascension Island, Lagos, Banana, Luanda, Lobito, Namibe, Walvis Bay, and Dar Es Salaam. Base controlled by foreign powers (F) will be defended by the host country.

What happened to Kiel?
Kiel was the major German naval base in the Baltic Sea. Large protected harbour and lots of shipbuilding capacities.
I don´t think Danzig could ever equal Kiel in capabilities.
I´d suggest Kiel as the major base and Danzig instead of Konigsberg as a minor base? No base in Konigsberg.

German sea power, its rise and progress, and economic basis (1913):

Appendix III Germany´s shipbuilding resources

"The Imperial yard at Kiel has two large slips and a small one for torpedo-boats, six floating docks, and six dry docks. The yard at Wilhelmshaven has two large slipways, five floating docks, with four small ones for torpedo-boats, and seven dry docks. At Danzig there is a comparatively small slipway, three horizontal slips, a docking basin, and two floating docks. This yard is gradually being devoted to submarines. The Imperial yards are generally confined to repairs, yet they are designed on the principle that they shall possess a sufficient power of output so as to prevent private yards from being in a position to fix prices at which war vessels should be built, and they have shown themselves equal to the occasion, and are by no means behind private establishments.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
What happened to Kiel?
Kiel was the major German naval base in the Baltic Sea. Large protected harbour and lots of shipbuilding capacities.
I don´t think Danzig could ever equal Kiel in capabilities.
I´d suggest Kiel as the major base and Danzig instead of Konigsberg as a minor base? No base in Konigsberg.

German sea power, its rise and progress, and economic basis (1913):

I got confused. :( I was thinking of Danzig because they build many U-boats there, and it seems like the Baltic Sea command was there, so I just mentally moved Kiel there. I made the recommended changes.
 

Deimos

Banned
Not to argue petulantly and harp on this particularly point, but you yourself said.
[...] And for conquered places like Angola, these units are basically the entire government. The whites don't like us, and the natives don't like us. Given time the colonial office will establish a government structure, but by then the Naval structure is probably set.

Now, if I were a sufficiently shortsighted politician I would be grateful because I could deny any conquered colony the funds for a police force. The SPD will probably try to gain sympathies by proclaiming how patriotic they were during the war and welfare programs for widows, orphans and cripples in Germany before turning to help the Africans, while the right-wing of German politics would primarily be looking to use the freed funds to prop up the Princedom of Traken-Memelland and the Vistula Triangle seeing as they are in Germany proper.

To further support that point, I would also like to point to your assessment and that of von Schultze that any major war in the next 5 years is unlikely. Every politician would know that to start a new war would be political suicide, so I would think it is time to let stupidity and greed reign freely.

And I have a question. How do you think will the Africa reservist force work? I would believe they are made up of members of loyal tribes from the German core colonies and as such are not likely to be used at the other end of Middle Africa but rather close to their home. Only a few thousand from the new colonial possessions would probably qualify as reservists and would still require actual oversight by proper African marines.

Considering all of the above, the forces are maybe not spread too thin but concentrated to a degree and some places should indeed be without central authority at this moment.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Germany Plans, part 9:

Von Schultze next reviews the U-boats plans. He authorizes 10 active squadrons and 15 reserve squadrons as the long term force level. The German command will have 5 active and 5 reserve and the balance will be in Africa. Germany will build one squadron per year (12 U-boats) in shipyards in Germany. Germany will accept other nations having larger dreadnought fleets but intents to have the most powerful and modern U-boats of any nation. Currently Germany can not fill these requirements. The UX-1, UX-2, and UX-6 classes will be scrapped since these are the older kerosene boats. The UX-18 and UX-42 classes of ships have been sold to A-H and the Ottomans. Of the 115 UX-126 Class ships, 99 survived the war and 72 are judged to be serviceable for long term use. The rest will be scrapped or used for parts. In 1917, 40 UX-240 and 30 UN-1 were scheduled to be built. The ship production will be slowed down and completed over 1917 to 1919. Two extra UX-240 will be built.

Active U-boat Navy as of end of 1919:

6 squadrons (72 ships) UX-126 (based on OTL U-93)

Speed - 18.5 surface, 9 submerged.
Range - 11,500 nm
Crew - 42
Max Depth 60 meters
Armament - Torpedo, 4 bow, 2 stern with 10 reloads. A 105mm deck guns with 300 rounds ammo.


3.5 squadrons (42 ships) UX-240 (based on OTL U-93)

Speed - 19 surface, 8.5 submerged.
Range - 12,000 nm
Crew - 47
Max Depth 120 meters
Armament - Torpedo, 4 bow, 1 stern with 10 reloads. A 105mm deck guns with 300 rounds ammo.

2.5 squadrons (30 ships) UN-1 based on merchant submarine hulls.

Speed - 18 surface, 8.5 submerged
Range - 21,000 nm
Crew - 68
Max Depth 120 meters
Armament - Torpedo 4 bow, 1 stern with 18 reloads. Two 150mm deck guns with 980 rounds.

The submarine command also has 8 custom built sub-tenders in addition to the pre-dreads barracks ships that can be borrowed from the surface command if needed. Of the 18 UM that survived the war, 6 merchant subs will be kept active and 12 will be put into reserve. The UY and UZ ships are judge to be unworthy of active service and will all be put into reserve and retired as enough new ships are built to maintain the 300 U-boat navy. Initial reserve fleet of U-boats will be 5 squadrons UY (UB from OTL) and 5 squadrons UZ (UC from OTL).

He authorizes continued research, funding and studies into developing a U-boat primarily designed to operate underwater, and he believes the technology is not yet mature enough to consider prototypes, much less a small production run. There is also funding for better sensors for U-boats.
The new class of ships to be built from 1920 to 1924 is largely being driven by the new torpedo defenses systems, tropical operating environments, long range voyages, and difficulty in finding targets in a vast ocean. The new class will move to the 533 mm torpedoes and require a design based on the merchant U-boats hulls. Air conditioning will be added to fight the condensation issues in the tropics and to help with crew endurance. The ships will expand the 3 man intelligence section to 5 to help with the location of enemy shipping. Improved direction finding and hydrophones will be added to the new model, along with establishing a new U-boat intelligence school in Bavaria. Also, new mines will be developed for the 533 mm horizontal tube to avoid the need to build specialized mine laying U-boats.

UX-400

Speed - 20 surface, 8.5 submerged
Range - 21,000 nm
Crew - 70
Max Depth 170 meters
Armament - Torpedo (533m similar to British Mark V OTL) 4 bow, 2 stern with 18 reloads. Two 150m deck guns with 980 rounds.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Not to argue petulantly and harp on this particularly point, but you yourself said.

Now, if I were a sufficiently shortsighted politician I would be grateful because I could deny any conquered colony the funds for a police force. The SPD will probably try to gain sympathies by proclaiming how patriotic they were during the war and welfare programs for widows, orphans and cripples in Germany before turning to help the Africans, while the right-wing of German politics would primarily be looking to use the freed funds to prop up the Princedom of Traken-Memelland and the Vistula Triangle seeing as they are in Germany proper.

To further support that point, I would also like to point to your assessment and that of von Schultze that any major war in the next 5 years is unlikely. Every politician would know that to start a new war would be political suicide, so I would think it is time to let stupidity and greed reign freely.

And I have a question. How do you think will the Africa reservist force work? I would believe they are made up of members of loyal tribes from the German core colonies and as such are not likely to be used at the other end of Middle Africa but rather close to their home. Only a few thousand from the new colonial possessions would probably qualify as reservists and would still require actual oversight by proper African marines.

Considering all of the above, the forces are maybe not spread too thin but concentrated to a degree and some places should indeed be without central authority at this moment.

I enjoy discussing these topics, or they would not be in my TL.

I know these series of updates are long, but we are still in the month of June 1917, just a few months after the war. Over the winter, the Germans expected a two year Russian campaign, and then the war ended unexpectedly fast. They also expected to take at least one more year to take the Congo basin. Some of the things you are asking for just can't happen this fast. To have additional administrators for the Congo, they would have to have been sitting in Hamburg waiting to be shipped to the Congo to arrive in Africa by now. In reality, the various German agencies are just beginning to work through these problems. Things take time. And yes, the Belgians evacuating the Congo basin and the Germans not having people ready to enter does create a temporary political vacuum.

Also, we have elections within the next year. It will be after the Africans take their seats before we get any serious discussion of a lot of these issues. To keep the TL manageable, I try not to think too far ahead. I do know how and how the next war starts, and I have some other milestones to hit, but I have not worked on a lot of other things that will be filled in over time. I have to finish the navies, then I will take a break to write some background stuff people will not see before I start doing monthly/quarterly updates again on a regular basis.

On Von Schultze's "No war in 5 years", that is a navy planning tool, not something talked about publicly. I am sure any foreign Navy can tell that Von Schultze is not preparing for an immediate war, and this should make sense to most of the foreign admirals.

The reservist are normally being used in areas that are not their homeland. Great lengths are being done to avoid creating tribal regiments. The want black soldiers and officers who think of themselves as German first. It may take a while to explain, but here is what I see happening. The prewar history is much like OTL except the Germans had a regiment or two of extra marines compared to OTL at the start of the war. These forces rapidly expanded which resulted in high ranking black officers for lack of better options and an almost entirely black field and company level officer. The Germans pulled enlisted men from many groups, but the officers came mostly from the "martial" tribes. These happen to be the tribes that cooperate with the Germans most. Probably under 10% of the population of a given region. These covet officer slots were often given to the son of the nobility of the martial tribes and other connected people. It is a way to try to bind the local tribes to the German empire. Other concessions were promised, which will have to be worked out the by Reichstag. There is a reason Zimmermann took the French occupation job instead of being made something near to "King of Kamerun". He knows he won the war, but created a mess of problems that have to be worked out one by one. A lot was also driven by disease. Due to tropical disease and horrible logistics, many of these regiments lost over 25% a year to disease. And then you add in battlefield deaths. In some of the worst regiments in worse years, it could be 50%. Africa was just as dangerous as France.

Now lets get to the sons. Lets say Tribe X was important and that 20 local nobles were given regimental or battalion officer jobs. They are not in the same unit, but would have been spread out among many units. There Germans don't want to see any regiment with more than 10% officers from one tribe. The enlisted ranks will be even more diverse. German is the language used. Now the officers do get perks. There extended family is treated well, and it is given substantial status. Think of it more as a program for nobility of tribes to send there second and third sons to than to a program the local prince joins.

Now to the movements. If you look at some of the units numbers in the TL, you will see they fought over wide areas. The best units often were used the most, so there is one unit that fought from Kamerun through Nigeria to Togoland, then it was sent deep into the Congo. Another fought in Nigeria and then invade Angola. The units moved around a lot. Post war, they will move the regiments around every 2-3 years. Part of this moving is to keep them from becoming too attached to the local. Part is to move to Kamerun for easier refits and training. Part is so you don't get stuck in one bad location for 20 years.

The reserve regiments will not move, and so we have greater potential to become attached to local population. What is happening is about 2/3 of the active units at the end of the war become reserve. If you want to stay on the payroll, you will not be in your home region. Now sure, some more powerful nobles will be given exemption. And if you join, you will not serve most of your time in your local area. First of all, training is done in Kamerun, and you will be put in a regiment that is moved every 2-3 years. You generally stay in same regiment for your career. Now you can retire after some years of serve or you can go into reserves, but they try to keep from having too many end up in home areas.

Otherwise, they try to copy the German reserve system.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Great TL. But did the Germans not construct also heavier torpedoes like the H-8 and J-9? They should be used now as well.

Yes, but they are on the battleships and other surface ship. And looking at OTL, most navies had different torpedoes for submarines than surface ships. And after WW1, the 533 mm is a common size. So the Germans are simply developing a new torpedo for the new submarine based on the lessons of WW1. Nothing revolutionary, just an evolution to defeat the improved TDS and compartmentalization of newer warship being ordered. They want a weapon custom built for the job, not a handme down of older technology from the surface navy.
 
Yes, but they are on the battleships and other surface ship. And looking at OTL, most navies had different torpedoes for submarines than surface ships. And after WW1, the 533 mm is a common size. So the Germans are simply developing a new torpedo for the new submarine based on the lessons of WW1. Nothing revolutionary, just an evolution to defeat the improved TDS and compartmentalization of newer warship being ordered. They want a weapon custom built for the job, not a handme down of older technology from the surface navy.

If you are looking for a boneheaded decision which sounds reasonable on paper:

Two classes of submarine based on roughly the same hull.

The Endurance class which uses small torpedoes (<250 mm) and is supposed to strictly go after small prey - coastal freighters, minelayers smallish escorts - whose trump card is an huge magazine & endurance.
Supposed to operate alone (Wolf packs being a task for the Punch class, see later, as the assumption is that convoys consists of prey to big / though for the small torpedoes anyway)

The Punch class utilizes huge torpedoes (think 800 mm plus). It's task are the escort of merchant cruisers (who also carry bulk the reloads), targeted sorties against heavy ships and any short desctructive naval task close to supply.
While the carry reloads, the size of the torpedoes makes the idea of a long range patrols rather idiotic as the boats would spend most of their time charging back and forth to resupply also because the torps are overkill for most things that can reasonably be expected to be caught on a patrol.
Ideally a target gets identified by an Endurance boat - maybe even tagged with some of the dinky torps - which then proceeds to guide the Punch boats to the target. Substitute your scout of choice.
As a merchant cruiser escort it mostly waits for the enemy to come.
 

katchen

Banned
This TL definitely isn't or shouldn't be dead. Because it has set loose a major butterfly.
HIV first spread from either a bonobo or a gorilla to a human in the late 19th or early 20th Century in Cameroon or French Congo in both TLs. As this excerpt from the Wikipedia article on History of AIDS transmission illustrates OTTL, transmission of HIV was both encouraged by the conditions of colonialism and slowed by the remoteness of Cameroon and French Congo ITT, with the first Western deathsf from AIDS in 1959 and the 1960s. Because of massive Western migration to Central Africa, ITTL, the transmission of AIDS will be a lot faster. But knowledge of viruses and immunity will be a lot less. And in Europe in the 1940s, there is a lot of antisemitism. And circumcision provides resistance to AIDS in males. Ouch!:mad::( [edit] HIV-1 from chimpanzees and gorillas to humans

Scientists generally accept that the known strains (or groups) of HIV-1 are most closely related to the simian immunodeficiency viruses (SIVs) endemic in wild ape populations of West Central African forests. Particularly, each of the known HIV-1 strains is either closely related to the SIV that infects the chimpanzee subspecies Pan troglodytes troglodytes (SIVcpz), or to the SIV that infects Western lowland gorillas (Gorilla gorilla gorilla), called SIVgor.[3][4][5][6][7][8] The pandemic HIV-1 strain (group M or Main) and a very rare strain only found in a few Cameroonian people (group N) are clearly derived from SIVcpz strains endemic in Pan troglodytes troglodytes chimpanzee populations living in Cameroon.[3] Another very rare HIV-1 strain (group P) is clearly derived from SIVgor strains of Cameroon.[6] Finally, the primate ancestor of HIV-1 group O, a strain infecting tens of thousands of people mostly from Cameroon but also from neighboring countries, is still uncertain, but there is evidence that it is either SIVcpz or SIVgor.[5] The pandemic HIV-1 group M is most closely related to the SIVcpz collected from the southeastern rain forests of Cameroon (modern East Province) near the Sangha River.[3] Thus, this region is presumably where the virus was first transmitted from chimpanzees to humans. However, reviews of the epidemiological evidence of early HIV-1 infection in stored blood samples, and of old cases of AIDS in Central Africa have led many scientists to believe that HIV-1 group M early human center was probably not in Cameroon, but rather farther south in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, more probably in its capital city, Kinshasa.[3][9][10][11]
Using HIV-1 sequences preserved in human biological samples along with estimates of viral mutation rates, scientists calculate that the jump from chimpanzee to human probably happened during the late 19th or early 20th century, a time of rapid urbanisation and colonisation in equatorial Africa. Exactly when the zoonosis occurred is not known. Some molecular dating studies suggest that HIV-1 group M had its most recent common ancestor (MRCA) (that is, started to spread in the human population) in the early 20th century, probably between 1915 and 1941.[12][13][14] A study published in 2008, analyzing viral sequences recovered from a recently discovered biopsy made in Kinshasa, in 1960, along with previously known sequences, suggested a common ancestor between 1873 and 1933 (with central estimates varying between 1902 and 1921).[15][16]
Genetic recombination had earlier been thought to "seriously confound" such phylogenetic analysis, but later "work has suggested that recombination is not likely to systematically bias [results]", although recombination is "expected to increase variance".[15] The results of a 2008 phylogenetics study support the later work and indicate that HIV evolves "fairly reliably".[15][17]
[edit] HIV-2 from sooty mangabeys to humans

Similar research has been undertaken with SIV strains collected from several wild sooty mangabey (Cercocebus atys atys) (SIVsmm) communities of the West African nations of Sierra Leone, Liberia, and Ivory Coast. The resulting phylogenetic analyses show that the viruses most closely related to the two strains of HIV-2 which spread considerably in humans (HIV-2 groups A and B) are the SIVsmm found in the sooty mangabeys of the Tai forest, in western Ivory Coast.[2]
There are six additional known HIV-2 groups, each having been found in just one person. They all seem to derive from independent transmissions from sooty mangabeys to humans. Groups C and D have been found in two people from Liberia, groups E and F have been discovered in two people from Sierra Leone, and groups G and H have been detected in two people from the Ivory Coast. These HIV-2 strains are probably dead-end infections, and each of them is most closely related to SIVsmm strains from sooty mangabeys living in the same country where the human infection was found.[2][11][18]
Molecular dating studies suggest that both the epidemic groups (A and B) started to spread among humans between 1905 and 1961 (with the central estimates varying between 1932 and 1945).[19] [20]
See also this article about HIV types, groups, and subtypes.
[edit] Bushmeat practice

According to the natural transfer theory (also called 'Hunter Theory' or 'Bushmeat Theory'), the "simplest and most plausible explanation for the cross-species transmission"[7] of SIV or HIV (post mutation), the virus was transmitted from an ape or monkey to a human when a hunter or bushmeat vendor/handler was bitten or cut while hunting or butchering the animal. The resulting exposure to blood or other bodily fluids of the animal can result in SIV infection.[21] A recent serological survey showed that human infections by SIV are not rare in Central Africa: the percentage of people showing seroreactivity to antigens — evidence of current or past SIV infection — was 2.3% among the general population of Cameroon, 7.8% in villages where bushmeat is hunted or used, and 17.1% in the most exposed people of these villages.[22] How the SIV virus would have transformed into HIV after infection of the hunter or bushmeat handler from the ape/monkey is still a matter of debate, although natural selection would favor any viruses capable of adjusting so that they could infect and reproduce in the T cells of a human host.
[edit] Emergence

[edit] Conditions for successful zoonosis

Zoonosis (transfer of a pathogen from non-human animals to humans) and subsequent spread of the pathogen between humans, requires the following conditions:

  1. a human population;
  2. a nearby population of a host animal;
  3. an infectious pathogen in the host animal that can spread from animal to human;
  4. interaction between the species to transmit enough of the pathogen to humans to establish a human foothold, which could have taken millions of individual exposures;
  5. ability of the pathogen to spread from human to human (perhaps acquired by mutation);
  6. some process allowing the pathogen to disperse widely, preventing the infection from "burning out" by either killing off its human hosts or provoking immunity in a local population of humans.
[edit] The unresolved issues about HIV origins and emergence

It is clear that the several HIV-1 and HIV-2 strains descend from SIVcpz, SIVgor, and SIVsmm viruses,[2][5][6][7][9][18] and that bushmeat practice provides the most plausible venue for cross-species transfer to humans.[7][9][22] However, some loose ends remain unresolved.
It is not yet explained why only four HIV groups (HIV-1 groups M and O, and HIV-2 groups A and B) spread considerably in human populations, despite bushmeat practices being very widespread in Central and West Africa,[10] and the resulting human SIV infections being common.[22]
It remains also unexplained why all epidemic HIV groups emerged in humans nearly simultaneously, and only in the 20th century, despite very old human exposure to SIV (a recent phylogenetic study demonstrated that SIV is at least tens of thousands of years old).[23]
The discovery of the main HIV / SIV phylogenetic relationships permits explaining broadly HIV biogeography: the early centers of the HIV-1 groups were in Central Africa, where the primate reservoirs of the related SIVcpz and SIVgor viruses (chimpanzees and gorillas) exist; similarly, the HIV-2 groups had their centers in West Africa, where sooty mangabeys, which harbor the related SIVsmm virus, exist. However these relationships do not explain more detailed patterns of biogeography, such as why epidemic HIV-2 groups (A and B) only evolved in the Ivory Coast, which is only one of six countries harboring the sooty mangabey. It is also unclear why the SIVcpz endemic in the chimpanzee subspecies Pan troglodytes schweinfurthii (inhabiting the Democratic Republic of Congo, Central African Republic, Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, and Tanzania) did not spawn an epidemic HIV-1 strain to humans, while the Democratic Republic of Congo was the main center of HIV-1 group M, a virus descended from SIVcpz strains of a subspecies (Pan troglodytes troglodytes) that does not exist in this country.
[edit] Theories of HIV origin and epidemic emergence

Several of the theories of HIV origin put forward (described below) attempt to explain the unresolved loose ends described in the previous section. Most of them accept the (above described) established knowledge of the HIV/SIV phylogenetic relationships, and also accept that bushmeat practice was the most likely cause of the initial transfer to humans. All of them propose that the simultaneous epidemic emergences of four HIV groups in the late 19th-early 20th century, and the lack of previous emergences, are explained by new factor(s) that appeared in the relevant African regions in that timeframe. These new factor(s) would have acted either to increase human exposures to SIV, to help it to adapt to the human organism by mutation (thus enhancing its between-humans transmissibility), or to cause an initial burst of transmissions crossing an epidemiological threshold, and therefore increasing the odds of continued spread.
[edit] Social changes and urbanization

It was proposed by Beatrice Hahn, Paul Sharp, and colleagues that "[the epidemic emergence of HIV] most likely reflects changes in population structure and behaviour in Africa during the 20th century and perhaps medical interventions that provided the opportunity for rapid human-to-human spread of the virus".[7] After the Scramble for Africa started in the 1880s, European colonial powers established cities, towns, and other colonial stations. A largely masculine labor force was hastily recruited to work in fluvial and sea ports, railways, other infrastructures, and in plantations. This disrupted traditional tribal values, and favored sexual promiscuity. In the nascent cities women felt relatively liberated from rural tribal rules[24] and many remained unmarried or divorced during long periods,[10][25] this being very rare in African traditional societies.[26] This was accompanied by unprecedented increase in people's movements.
Michael Worobey and colleagues observed that the growth of cities had probably a role in the epidemic emergence of HIV, since the phylogenetic datations of the two older strains of HIV-1 (groups M and O), suggest that these viruses started to spread soon after the main Central African colonial cities were founded.[15]
[edit] Heart of Darkness

Amit Chitnis, Diana Rawls, and Jim Moore proposed that HIV may have emerged epidemically as a result of the harsh conditions, forced labor, displacement, and unsafe injection and vaccination practices associated with colonialism, particularly in French Equatorial Africa.[27] The workers in plantations, construction projects, and other colonial enterprises were supplied with bushmeat, this contributing to increase this activity, and then exposures to SIV. Several historical sources support the view that bushmeat hunting indeed increased, both because of the necessity to supply workers and because firearms became more widely available.[27][28][29]
The colonial authorities also gave many vaccinations against smallpox, and injections, of which many would be made without sterilising the equipment between uses (unsafe or unsterile injections). Chitnis et al. proposed that both these parenteral risks and the prostitution associated with forced labor camps could have caused serial transmission (or serial passage) of SIV between humans (see discussion of this in the next section).[27] In addition, they proposed that the conditions of extreme stress associated with forced labor could depress the immune system of workers, therefore prolonging the primary acute infection period of someone newly infected by SIV, thus increasing the odds of both adaptation of the virus to humans, and of further transmissions.[30]
The authors predicted that HIV-1 originated in the area of French Equatorial Africa, and in the early 20th century (when the colonial abuses and forced labor were at their peak). Later researches proved these predictions mostly correct: HIV-1 groups M and O started to spread in humans in late 19th–early 20th century.[12][13][14][15] And all groups of HIV-1 descend from either SIVcpz or SIVgor from apes living to the west of the Ubangi River, either in countries which belonged to the French Equatorial Africa federation of colonies, in Equatorial Guinea (then a Spanish colony), or in Cameroon (which was a German colony between 1884 and 1916, then fell to Allied forces in World War I, and had most of its area administered by France, in close association with French Equatorial Africa).
This theory was later dubbed 'Heart of Darkness' by Jim Moore,[31] alluding to the book of the same title written by Joseph Conrad, the main focus of which is colonial abuses in equatorial Africa.
[edit] Unsterile injections

In several articles published since 2001, Preston Marx, Philip Alcabes, and Ernest Drucker proposed that HIV emerged because of rapid serial human-to-human transmission of SIV (after a bushmeat hunter or handler became SIV-infected) through unsafe or unsterile injections.[16][18][32][33] Although both Chitnis et al.[27] and Sharp et al.[7] also suggested that this may have been one of the major risk factors at play in HIV emergence (see above), Marx et al. enunciated the underlying mechanisms in greater detail, and wrote the first review of the injection campaigns made in colonial Africa.[18][32]
Central to Marx et al. argument is the concept of adaptation by serial passage (or serial transmission): an adventitious virus (or other pathogen) can increase its biological adaptation to a new host species if it is rapidly transmitted between hosts, while each host is still in the acute infection period. This process favors the accumulation of adaptive mutations more rapidly, therefore increasing the odds that a better adapted viral variant will appear in the host before the immune system suppresses the virus.[18] Such better adapted variant could then survive in the human host for longer than the short acute infection period, in high numbers (high viral load), which would grant it more possibilities of epidemic spread.
Marx et al. reported experiments of cross-species transfer of SIV in captive monkeys (some of which made by themselves), in which the use of serial passage helped to adapt SIV to the new monkey species after passage by three or four animals.[18]
In agreement with this model is also the fact that, while both HIV-1 and HIV-2 attain substantial viral loads in the human organism, adventitious SIV infecting humans seldom does so: people with SIV antibodies often have very low or even undetectable SIV viral load.[22] This suggests that both HIV-1 and HIV-2 are adapted to humans, and serial passage could have been the process responsible for it.
Marx et al. proposed that unsterile injections (that is, injections where the needle or syringe is reused without sterilization or cleaning between uses), which were likely very prevalent in Africa, during both the colonial period and afterwards, provided the mechanism of serial passage that permitted HIV to adapt to humans, therefore explaining why it emerged epidemically only in the 20th century.[18][32]
[edit] Massive injections of the antibiotic era

Marx et al. emphasize the massive number of injections administered in Africa after antibiotics were introduced (around 1950) as being the most likely implicated in the origin of HIV because, by these times (roughly in the period 1950 to 1970), injection intensity in Africa was maximal. They argued that a serial passage chain of 3 or 4 transmissions between humans is an unlikely event (the probability of transmission after a needle reuse is something between 0.3% and 2%, and only a few people have an acute SIV infection at any time), and so HIV emergence may have required the very high frequency of injections of the antibiotic era.[18]
The molecular dating studies place the initial spread of the epidemic HIV groups before that time (see above).[12][13][14][15][19][20] According to Marx et al., these studies could have overestimated the age of the HIV groups, because they depend on a molecular clock assumption, may not have accounted for the effects of natural selection in the viruses, and the serial passage process alone would be associated with strong natural selection.[18]
[edit] The injection campaigns against sleeping sickness

David Gisselquist proposed that the mass injection campaigns to treat trypanosomiasis (sleeping sickness) in Central Africa were responsible for the emergence of HIV-1.[34] Unlike Marx et al.,[18] Gisselquist argued that the millions of unsafe injections administered during these campaigns were sufficient to spread rare HIV infections into an epidemic, and that evolution of HIV through serial passage was not essential to the emergence of the HIV epidemic in the 20th century.[34]
This theory focuses on injection campaigns that peaked in the period 1910–40, that is, around the time the HIV-1 groups started to spread.[12][13][14][15] It also focuses on the fact that many of the injections in these campaigns were intravenous (which are more likely to transmit SIV/HIV than subcutaneous or intramuscular injections), and many of the patients received many (often more than 10) injections per year, therefore increasing the odds of SIV serial passage.[34]
[edit] Other early injection campaigns

Jacques Pépin and Annie-Claude Labbé reviewed the colonial health reports of Cameroon and French Equatorial Africa for the period 1921–59, calculating the incidences of the diseases requiring intravenous injections. They concluded that trypanosomiasis, leprosy, yaws, and syphilis were responsible for most intravenous injections. Schistosomiasis, tuberculosis, and vaccinations against smallpox represented lower parenteral risks: schistosomiasis cases were relatively few; tuberculosis patients only became numerous after mid century; and there were few smallpox vaccinations in the lifetime of each person.[35]
The authors suggested that the very high prevalence of the Hepatitis C virus in southern Cameroon and forested areas of French Equatorial Africa(around 40–50%) can be better explained by the unsterile injections used to treat yaws, because this disease was much more prevalent than syphilis, trypanosomiasis, and leprosy in these areas. They suggested that all these parenteral risks caused, not only the massive spread of Hepatitis C, but also the spread of other pathogens, and the emergence of HIV-1: "the same procedures could have exponentially amplified HIV-1, from a single hunter/cook occupationally infected with SIVcpz to several thousand patients treated with arsenicals or other drugs, a threshold beyond which sexual transmission could prosper."[35] They do not suggest specifically serial passage as the mechanism of adaptation.
According to Pépin's 2011 book, The Origins of AIDS,[36] the virus can be traced to a central African bush hunter in 1921, with colonial medical campaigns using improperly sterilized syringe and needles playing a key role in enabling a future epidemic. Pépin concludes that AIDS spread silently in Africa for decades, fueled by urbanization and prostitution since the initial cross-species infection. Pépin also claims that the virus was brought to the Americas by a Haitian teacher returning home from Zaire in the 1960s.[37] Sex tourism and contaminated blood transfusion centers ultimately propelled AIDS to public’s consciousness in the 80s and a worldwide pandemic.[36]
[edit] Genital ulcer diseases and sexual promiscuity

João Dinis de Sousa, Viktor Müller, Philippe Lemey, and Anne-Mieke Vandamme proposed that HIV became epidemic through sexual serial transmission, in nascent colonial cities, helped by a high frequency of genital ulcers, caused by genital ulcer diseases (GUD).[10] GUD are simply sexually transmitted diseases that cause genital ulcers; examples are syphilis, chancroid, lymphogranuloma venereum, and genital herpes. These diseases increase the probability of HIV transmission dramatically, from around 0.01–0.1% to 4–43% per heterosexual act, because the genital ulcers provide a portal of viral entry, and contain many activated T cells expressing the CCR5 co-receptor, the main cell targets of HIV.[10][38]
[edit] The probable time interval of cross-species transfer

Sousa et al. use molecular dating techniques to estimate the time when each HIV group split from its closest SIV lineage. Each HIV group necessarily crossed to humans between this time and the time when it started to spread (the time of the MRCA), because after the MRCA certainly all lineages were already in humans, and before the split with the closest simian strain, the lineage was in a simian. HIV-1 groups M and O, split from their closest SIVs around 1876 (1847–1907), 1741 (1606–1870), respectively. HIV-2 did so around 1889 (1856–1922). This information, together with the datations of the HIV groups' MRCAs (described above) mean that all HIV groups likely crossed to humans in late 19th—early 20th century.[10]
[edit] Strong GUD incidence in nascent colonial cities

The authors reviewed colonial medical articles and archived medical reports of the countries at or near the ranges of chimpanzees, gorillas and sooty mangabeys, and found that genital ulcer diseases peaked in the colonial cities during their early growth period (up to 1935). The colonial authorities recruited men to work in railways, fluvial and sea ports, and other infrastructure projects, and most of these men did not bring their wives with them. Then, the highly male-biased sex ratio favoured prostitution, which in its turn caused an explosion of GUD (especially syphilis and chancroid). After the mid-1930s, people's movements were more tightly controlled, and mass surveys and treatments (of arsenicals and other drugs) were organized, and so the GUD incidences started to decline. They declined even further after World War II, because of the heavy use of antibiotics, so that, by the late 1950s, Kinshasa (which is the probable center of HIV-1 group M) had a very low GUD incidence. Similar processes happened in the cities of Cameroon and Ivory Coast, where HIV-1 group O and HIV-2 respectively evolved.[10]
Therefore, the peak GUD incidences in cities[10] have a good temporal coincidence with the period when all main HIV groups crossed to humans and started to spread.[10][12][13][14][15][19][20] In addition, the authors gathered evidence that syphilis and the other GUDs were, like injections, absent from the densely forested areas of Central and West Africa before organized colonialism socially disrupted these areas (starting in the 1880s).[10] Thus, this theory also potentially explains why HIV emerged only after late 19th century.
[edit] Female circumcision

Uli Linke has argued that the practice of female circumcision is responsible for the high incidence of AIDS in Africa, since intercourse with a circumcised female is conducive to exchange of blood.[39]
[edit] Male circumcision distribution and HIV origins

Male circumcision may reduce the probability of HIV acquisition by men (see article Circumcision and HIV). Leaving aside blood transfusions, the highest HIV-1 transmissibility ever measured was from GUD-suffering female prostitutes to uncircumcised men—the measured risk was 43% in a single sexual act.[38] Sousa et al. reasoned that the adaptation and epidemic emergence of each HIV group may have required such extreme conditions, and thus reviewed the existing ethnographic literature for patterns of male circumcision and hunting of apes and monkeys for bushmeat, focusing on the period 1880–1960, and on most of the 318 ethnic groups living in Central and West Africa.[10] They also collected censuses and other literature showing the ethnic composition of colonial cities in this period. Then, they estimated the circumcision frequencies of the Central African cities over time.
Circumcision is nowadays almost universal in almost all countries of Central and West Africa. [citation needed] However, Sousa et al. charts reveal that male circumcision frequencies were much lower in several cities of these areas in early 20th century. The reason is that many ethnic groups not performing circumcision by that time gradually adopted it, to imitate other ethnic groups and enhance the social acceptance of their boys (colonialism produced massive intermixing between African ethnic groups).[10][26] About 15–30% of men in Kinshasa and Douala in early 20th century should be uncircumcised, and these cities were the probable centers of HIV-1 groups M and O, respectively.[10]
The authors studied early circumcision frequencies in 12 cities of Central and West Africa, to test if this variable correlated with HIV emergence. This correlation was strong for HIV-2: among 6 West African cities that could have received immigrants infected with SIVsmm, the two cities from the Ivory Coast studied (Abidjan and Bouaké) had much higher frequency of uncircumcised men (60–85%) than the others, and epidemic HIV-2 groups emerged initially in this country only. This correlation was less clear for HIV-1 in Central Africa.[10]
[edit] Computer simulations of HIV emergence

Sousa et al. then built computer simulations to test if an 'ill-adapted SIV' (meaning a simian immunodeficiency virus already infecting a human but incapable of transmission beyond the short acute infection period) could spread in colonial cities. The simulations used parameters of sexual transmission obtained from the current HIV literature. They modelled people's 'sexual links', with different levels of sexual partner change among different categories of people (prostitutes, single women with several partners a year, married women, and men), according to data obtained from modern studies of sexual promiscuity in African cities. The simulations let the parameters (city size, proportion of people married, GUD frequency, male circumcision frequency, and transmission parameters) vary, and explored several scenarios. Each scenario was run 1,000 times, to test the probability of SIV generating long chains of sexual transmission. The authors postulated that such long chains of sexual transmission were necessary for the SIV strain to adapt better to humans, becoming a HIV capable of further epidemic emergence.
The main result was that genital ulcer frequency was by far the most decisive factor. For the GUD levels prevailing in Kinshasa, in early 20th century, long chains of SIV transmission had a high probability. For the lower GUD levels existing in the same city in the late 1950s (see above), they were much less likely. And without GUD (a situation typical of villages in forested equatorial Africa before colonialism) SIV could not spread at all. City size was not an important factor. The authors propose that these findings explain the temporal patterns of HIV emergence: no HIV emerging in tens of thousands of years of human slaughtering of apes and monkeys, several HIV groups emerging in the nascent, GUD-riddled, colonial cities, and no epidemically successful HIV group emerging in mid-20th century, when GUD was more controlled, and cities were much bigger.
Male circumcision had little to moderate effect in their simulations, but given the geographical correlation found, the authors propose that it could have had an indirect role, either by increasing genital ulcer disease itself (it is known that syphilis, chancroid, and several other GUDs have higher incidences in uncircumcised men), or by permitting further spread of the HIV strain, after the first chains of sexual transmission permitted adaptation to the human organism.
One of the main advantages of this theory is stressed by the authors: "It [the theory] also offers a conceptual simplicity because it proposes as causal factors for SIV adaptation to humans and initial spread the very same factors that most promote the continued spread of HIV nowadays: promiscuous sex, particularly involving sex workers, GUD, and possibly lack of circumcision."[10]
[edit] Iatrogenic and other theories

Iatrogenic theories propose that medical interventions were responsible for HIV origins. By proposing factors that only appeared in Central and West Africa after the late 19th century, they seek to explain why all HIV groups also started after that.
The theories centered on the role of parenteral risks, such as unsterile injections, transfusions,[18][27][34][35] or smallpox vaccinations[27] are accepted as plausible by most scientists of the field, and were already reviewed above.
[edit] Pathogenicity of SIV in non-human primates

In most non-human primate species, natural SIV infection does not cause a fatal disease (but see below). Comparison of the gene sequence of SIV with HIV should therefore give us information about the factors necessary to cause disease in humans. The factors that determine the virulence of HIV as compared to most SIVs are only now being elucidated. Non-human SIVs contain a nef gene that down-regulates CD3, CD4, and MHC class I expression; most non-human SIVs therefore do not induce immunodeficiency; the HIV-1 nef gene however has lost its ability to down-regulate CD3, which results in the immune activation and apoptosis that is characteristic of chronic HIV infection.[40]
In addition, a long term survey of chimpanzees naturally infected with SIVcpz in Gombe, Tanzania, found that, contrary to the previous paradigm, chimpanzees with SIVcpz infection do experience an increased mortality, and also suffer from a Human AIDS-like illness.[41] SIV pathogenicity in wild animals could exist in other chimpanzee subspecies and other primate species as well, and stay unrecognized by lack of relevant long term studies.
[edit] History of spread

Main article: Timeline of early AIDS cases
[edit] 1959: David Carr

David Carr was an apprentice printer (usually referred to, mistakenly, as a sailor; Carr had served in the Navy between 1955 and 1957) from Manchester, England who died in October 1959 following the failure of his immune system; he succumbed to pneumonia. Doctors, baffled by what he had died from, preserved 50 of his tissue samples for inspection. In 1990, the tissues were found to be HIV-positive. However, in 1992, a second test by AIDS researcher David Ho found that the strain of HIV present in the tissues was similar to those found in 1990 rather than an earlier strain (which would have mutated considerably over the course of 30 years). He concluded that the DNA samples provided actually came from a 1990 AIDS patient. Upon retesting David Carr's tissues, he found no sign of the virus.[42]
[edit] 1959: Congolese man

One of the earliest documented HIV-1 infections was discovered in a preserved blood sample taken in 1959 from a man from Leopoldville, Belgian Congo (now Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of the Congo).[43] However, it is unknown whether this anonymous person ever developed AIDS and died of its complications.[43]
[edit] 1960: Congolese woman

A second early documented HIV-1 infection was discovered in a preserved lymph node biopsy sample taken in 1960 from a woman from Leopoldville, Belgian Congo.[15]
[edit] 1969: Robert Rayford

Main article: Robert Rayford
In May 1969 a 15-year-old African-American male named Robert Rayford di
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Conclusion of Prince Henry

I have decided not to continue the Prince Henry TL. In a few weeks, I will ask the moderators to lock the thread, but I wanted to express my thoughts on where I wanted to take it and allow time for final comments. While I have enjoyed the writing, finishing the thread uses more of my fun time each week than I want to dedicate to online fiction. I would like to thank those that have read and those that have commented on the thread. The input has been most helpful.

Where I see the world going:

MittelAfrika: I see a national identity emerging over the next 100 years. As the nation is held together by external threats and German economic/military might, it will slowly drift away from Germany. You will see 3 blocks of "Germanic" people emerge - MittelAfrika, South Africa (Dutch for lack of better word), and MittelEuropean Germans. Generally allies, but they can conflict as English speaking nations have. I see colonialism surviving ITTL. India will drift out of the UK orbit, but much of the imperial age of the European will continue. This is largely the result of a shorter and less damaging war. I am not saying MittelAfrika will be nice, there will be plenty of brutality, corruption and ethnic crimes. It will just be better for the average African than OTL. I was going to do one grandeous and wasteful project - Congo diversion to Lake Chad. Roughly speaking, it is on the same scale as the Hoover dam to California project, just done in another land.

Japan: With a weaker UK, Japan will get bogged down in China earlier and faster. Ironically this will help Japan since it will butterfly away the disasters of the 1933-1945 of OTL. When Russia gets its affairs together, these two will continue their efforts to keep China down. It is a China nerf.

Russia: After a hard decade or two, it will emerge as a stable, authoritarian, partial democracy. More Putin than anything else from OTL.

A-H: It will survive due to external threats and help from Germany. It will be inward focus for the next 50 years. Again, not good, but a lot better than OTL for the average citizen. Poland will be similar in many ways to A-H. Both will be a continual drain on German resources, but a required buffer to Russia.

Jews: Better than OTL, but almost and ATL is better. There non-Christian nature will always be an issue, but there is enough empty space in Germany and A-H and the USA to absorb refugees. There treatment post war will be closer to OTL pre-WW1 Ottoman or A-H treatment than anything else in OTL. No Israel outside of small religious communities tolerated by the Ottomans.

Italy: Massive wank compared to OTL. You will see Metropolitan Italy including OTL Italy (1914 border), Libya, Tunisia, and other parts of the African desert.

France: Falls to second class power status with large empire.

UK: British Empire will survive minus India (longer term loss). The external threats will bind the white dominions close to England. More like NATO plus EU from OTL than OTL commonwealth.

USA remains focused on western hemisphere.

Germany: It has won so much, it spends its time holding its alliances together. A-H, Ottomans, and MittelAfrika are net economic drain, but make German one of the great powers for the next 100 years.
 
Sorry to hear that you don't continue - but as they say: De mortuis nihil, nisi bene!

This timeline was extremely well researched and I enjoyed to read it.

If its possible could you put it (without our posts) in the finished TLs section, so one could reread it some day ;)

THe outline for the future leaves out the BIG question - will there be a Round two a few decades down the line, or do we get Pax Germanica?

I think a round two is hard to avoid - especially if russia and the UK (and France) is left intact.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Conclusion of Prince Henry Part 2:

Wars: I was planning for two followup regional wars. While one can certainly have any WW1 TL lead to WW2, I don't believe this is the only likely outcome. Even IOTL, slightly different decisions could have avoided WW2 such as a stronger USA Navy, higher defense spending by the UK dominions, earlier compromises to lessen the burdens of the ToV. Or the UK could have cut a deal with the Soviets pre-1939.

The initial war was to follow about 10 years after the end of WW1. The Ottomans and Italians were to from an alliance of convenience to try to dominate the Med. Basically take the Suez from the UK. While there a lots of place the unfinished issues of WW1 could first flair, I was looking for an area where carriers would have trouble operation and land based aviation could excel. IMO, a lot of what type of weapons are funded is based on what worked in the last war. A lot of what worked in the last war is based on terrain and who fought. OTL saw the USN perfect carrier warfare in the open Pacific. Here different lessons will be learned. In the small waters of the Med with lot of quality naval aviation (torpedo, dive, and guided weapons) combined with robust shore defenses (naval artillery, short range boats and guided missiles), carriers will have a hard time surviving and thriving. So instead of being seen as dominant weapon of the sea, it will be part of the mix of needed naval assets. With secure land supply lines to neutral MittelEurope and with the Suez falling early, the British will have a tough time in this war.

The Ottomans and Italians were to have spent 10 years building ports and Railroads. The Ottomans were to achieve surprise with a partial mobilization to deal with a revolt in Arabia, but with quality railroads in the Palestine area and German advisers, the troops would be diverted at the last moment to a surprise attack that takes the Suez. With some mechanized transport in January, the Suez does not really take that long to cross. With the Suez cut and Italy joining the war, the next day, the British will be on the defensive with hard to resupply Egypt. The UK would rally and take Italian East Africa after the fall of Egypt, and be forced to make peace with Germany entering the war. Germany will eventually decide it can't let its allies, who started a war without talking to them, lose. Italy will win despite heavy losses at sea to UK ships and subs.

Part of this has to do with how I see naval strategy. We all have opinions and biases that show up clearly when we write. I see two basic strategies, the "control the seas" (UK/USA) type thinking. And the "deny the enemy access to my coast" seen by nations such as the USSR or China through the ages. The second one has a lot more supports than IOTL due to Germany winning by not controlling the seas but denying the seas to the enemy in WW1 and the same happening in this second war. Once the Suez falls and Italy is able to UK merchant ships west of Tunisia, the UK will simply be unable to send enough convoys up the Red Sea to save Egypt and it is too hard to go overland. Also, ITTL with the issue of MittleAfrika, the UK sends much higher % of its Asian shipments via the Panama canal.

I would then have a second war 10 years later or so. I had not worked out the details here, but basically Germany would suffer from the arrogance of power and victory disease and overreach. Too many years of things working out right for the Kaiser despite taking huge, unnecessary risk would lead to another war. The general plan was to have Germany mucking around in Latin America through aid and other actions cross a USA red line. We see a USA/UK versus Germany/minor allies in an indecisive war fought in the Atlantic and Africa. Neither side is strong enough to win, all suffer greatly. Peace is restored after German influence is expelled from Latin America and long, pointless battles in Africa. Here the key supply route for the Germans will be via Italian and its north African lands. Over the intervening 20 years, there will be railroads built across the Sahara. When combined with the Kamerun industrial base and tough USA logistics to Africa, the war is indecisive. Again, we have a third war where the stronger naval power is unable to win on land.

Tech: By 1940 or so, I see naval tech as follows.
- 1950 or so submarine technology.
- 1950 or so guide missiles.
- 1940 or so carrier aviation. The carriers will have much better AAA and a more fighter focused.
- Plenty of BB with guns bigger than 16", but they will be seen as a dying breed.
- Around 1950 radar.


One last note: The world maps will largely freeze when nuclear weapons are developed in mid-1930's. With less destructive wars, Germany will be the leader in physics. Italy will make the Plutonium breakthrough about 1931, and the information will be public before various state security services realize the threat. Germany will test a weapon first, followed in quick order by Italy, UK, USA. The map will be frozen in to these major power blocks.

- British Empire
- German Empire (Europe and Africa)
- USA lead Western Hemisphere.
- Russia.
- Empire of japan.
 
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