The Whale has Wings
- Thread starter Astrodragon
- Start date
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Battle Of the River Plate - 10th December 1939
The Graf Spee was first spotted by one of HMS Venerable's patrolling Swordfish to the north west of the British force at 1000 hours. The weather was very good, and the plane caused considerable consternation on the German vessel. The plane had already reported the ship as a warship, and a large and suspicious one - the two triple heavy turrets made it extremely likely this was a pocket battleship. On hearing of the sighting, Harwood ordered his force to close her in order to make a definite identification.
The Graf Spee had no real indication of where the plane had come from. It was most likely from a carrier, but there was also the possibility it was based on land, as it was just about close enough. The initial thought, that this was a spotting plane from a cruiser, was discarded once it was seen the plane had wheels, not floats. Unfortunately for the Germans, the British cruiser force was fairly close, and in any case had a considerable speed advantage. For a short time, the ship tried to bluff off the patrol planes increasingly pointed questions, but when smoke was detected to the south east this was given up, the ship cleared to action stations and turned north at full speed. Since the British cruisers had a speed advantage of some 7 knots, escape was going to prove difficult.
As per standing instructions, the Venerable allowed the cruisers to draw ahead, while she spotted 8 swordfish with torpedoes on deck (the other 4 of her swordfish were on patrol). As the Graf Spee turned away, the other patrol planes were called back, to help keep an eye on her, Such suspicious behaviour from a ship looking awfully like a pocket battleship really only had one likely cause. The initial identification of the British ships was in error; the Graf Spee thought she was being closed by a light cruiser and 2 destroyers (the Venerable being too far away to be spotted at this time). This led her to believe that this was the carriers (by now, the idea that it was a land based plane had been discarded) escort ships, and while it was going to be very difficult to evade the carriers planes on such a glorious day, if she could destroy or at least heavily damage her escorts, the carrier might withdraw for long enough for them to make their escape that night.
Sadly, as the British ships drew closer, it was seen that they were in fact cruisers. By now the actions of the Graf Spee, and her lack of response to questions, had decided it for Harwood - this was an enemy pocket battleship. Final confirmation was when the ship opened fire on the Swordfish (it was later ascertained that this was to prevent it spotting for the cruiser force). Harwood had made allowance for this sort of encounter in his preparations. Since the Graf Spee outranged the cruisers, and with heavier guns, there was no point in closing with her when the weather was good and he had a carrier full of full of planes following him. So instead of closing, the cruisers moved to keep the range at around 25,000 yards. Given the good weather conditions and the availability of at least 4 TBR planes, there was no worry about losing their quarry.
The first attack from the Venerable was by 8 Swordfish using torpedoes at 1230. Since the target was on her own, they attacked in a hammer and anvil of 4 planes in each. AA fire from the Graf Spee was heavy, and fairly accurate; one swordfish was shot down, and 2 others damaged. However this left 7 torpedoes heading towards the ship. While the pocket battleships were never going to win any prizes as the most agile of ships, Captain Langsdorf managed to avoid 6 of them. The seventh hit the ship forward, causing shock damage and a considerable hole - while termed 'battleships', the class was only an oversized heavy cruiser, with correspondingly poor torpedo protection. Although the fighting power of the ship was not directly affected, she took on a list and slowed considerably as hundreds of tons of water flooded into her.
The Swordfish returned to the carrier, being recovered while the ship carried on preparation for its second strike. Harwood viewed the attack with satisfaction; whatever happened now, that torpedo hit would likely doom the Graf Spee to eventual destruction. For the moment, however, he was perfectly happy to stand and admire the FAA making her an easier target for his ships. The Graf Spee had fired an occasional salvo at him before the attack, but at the range he was shadowing her there was really no chance of a hit - all the giant splashes of water did was raise ironic cheers from the crew.
The Venerables crew had been busy breaking all records for the time taken to arm a dozen Cormorant dive bombers with 1,000lb SAP bombs. In order to save time (and as the risk of any air attack on them was negligible to non-existant), they had armed and fuelled the planes in the hanger to leave the deck free to recover the Swordfish. As soon as this had been done, and the planes struck below, the Cormorants were brought up and arranged for a strike. This would happen only 60 minutes after the torpedo attack on the Graf Spee.
Meanwhile the Graf Spee had brought the damage mainly under control; the airborne torpedo didn't carry enough explosive to do serious underwater damage except by a lucky hit, and although the ships speed was now down to 20kt, and there was still a 4 degree list, she was still capable of fighting. It all depended on how many planes that damn carrier had, and how effective they were.
The crew watches with morbid fascination as the Cormorants neared. At first, they expected this to be a level bombing attack, and Langsdorf was quietly optimistic that a dozen planes wouldn't be enough for a successful one. This belief was rudely broken as the first 3 planes dropped into a ridiculously steep plunge aimed straight at them. The AA fire of German ships was no better against dive bombers than that of the Royal Navy, and the light AA of the ship was quite limited -indeed, with 8 37mm and 4 cm guns, she carried less close AA than one of the Venerable's escorting destroyers.
The Cormorants stooped in 4 groups of 3 at 1400. The AA fire did damage a couple of them, more by luck than judgement, but that had no effect on their attack.
The first group of 3 managed a complete miss and 2 near missed that showered the ship with water and splinters. Before the crew had time to do more than breathe a sigh of relief, the second wave was heading down. This time, they were more successful. One bomb landed in the water close enough to cause shock damage. The second bomb was a miss, but the third sliced straight through the 2" deck armour and exploded enthusiastically on its first (and last) encounter with a German diesel in the forward engine room, causing the entire propulsion system to shut down due to the shock. With the ship slowing rapidly, the last 6 planes had an easier target. Even so, there was only one more hit, although a number of the others were close enough to cause more splinter damage. The final bomb, however, landed straight on top of the aft triple turret. While this boasted 4" of armour plate, the effect of the 1,000lb bomb was to completely wreck it, jamming it on its turret ring and killing the crew by blast and shock
All the planes made it back to the carrier, although 2 were too damaged for another strike, and one had to ditch next to the escort. Fortunately both of the crew survived.
The cruisers followed the ship like hopeful vultures, as the Venerable informed Harwood that they would be able to launch another 6 Swordfish in 30-40 minutes. As the Graf Spee was obviously going nowhere, especially at 11 knots, Harwood decided to wait and let the planes get in one more strike. He had the afternoon left, and even if this strike was unsuccessful he could afford a second dive-bomber attack before committing his cruisers. the more the Graf Spee was damaged, the less damage he would take in sinking her.
The second Swordfish strike took off some 40 minutes later, and was in range of the Graf Spee not many minutes later at about 1515. As there were only 6 of them , and the ship was moving slowly, they went for a simultaneous attack on either quarter. The flight attacking on the port side missed although one torpedo came very close, but the attack from starboard hit her twice. One torpedo hit forward, causing damage and letting in yet more water; the other hit amidships, and the shock effect stopped the remaining diesels even as the water started to flood into the engine compartment
Harwood saw the explosions and the obvious sudden slowing of his target, and grabbed the opportunity. The 3 cruisers bore in on the Graf Spee at full power, the Exeter opening fire first, the Ajax and Achilles closing into effective range of their 6" guns. They had a window of opportunity as the Graf Spee was paralysed by the bomb damage, and by the time the men on its bridge had realised of their attack, the cruisers had already closed the range and were straddling the ship.
Despite this, the Graf Spee fought back as hard as she could, but the shock from the air attacks had damaged her rather delicate radar fire control, and as a result the fore turret and the 5.9" guns were having to be worked in local control. While they did manage a number of hits on the British ships - Exeter was hit by one 11" shells and 2 5.9" which did considerable damage, and the light cruisers received a number of 5.9" hits, the damage from a growing number of 8" and 6" shells turned the superstructure of the Graf Spee into ruin. With only the forward turret operational, and with the 5.9" guns only having limited arcs of fire, the agile light cruisers made the most of the vulnerable stern aspect of the ship, closing the range to where even their lighter 6" shells could cause serious damage. The growing list of the Graf Spee didn't help, slowing her rate of fire considerably. Finally the Exeter hit the forward turret; while it was heavily armoured, the concussion put it and the crew out of action for a time. With the ship now nothing more than a listing, wallowing target, only 2 5.9" guns on the port side of the ship, Harwood indicated to the Achilles to close and finish her with torpedoes. The cruiser fired 2 21" torpedoes into the Graf Spee's starboard side, and the larger warheads were the final blow to the ship. Within minutes the crew could be seen jumping off as the list rapidly reaches an unrecoverable angle, and less than 10 minutes later the ship capsized and sank.
There was later a certain amount of criticism of Harwood for attacking before using the final dive-bomber strike, but as he pointed out it was starting to get hazy, and while a night action was quite acceptable, it was far better to attack the Graf Spee while she was temporarily incapacitated by the torpedo hits, and he still had a final strike available that day - in any case, it would not have been ready for 3-40 minutes. If his ships had taken heavy damage, he would have withdrawn and used the final Cormorant strike before closing again.
As it was the Admiralty, the British public and the First Lord were most pleased with the result. one of Germanies heavy pocket battleship had been sunk with minimal damage to the British ships, and many in the Admiralty were very satisfied that the concepts of the FAA and the light carrier had been so well vindicated. While there was still a strong battleship lobby in the Admiralty, even they acknowledged the usefulness of the carriers now. The battle was dubbed by the press the Battle of the River Plate, something that made the Admirals sigh as they were well over two hundred miles away from the Plate; however the name stuck.
The result of the battle was also to provide the final argument for Operation Cormorant, which was scheduled for the end of December (the plan needed a 3/4 or better moon, and some of the carriers spread across the world needed to be brought back home.
The Graf Spee was first spotted by one of HMS Venerable's patrolling Swordfish to the north west of the British force at 1000 hours. The weather was very good, and the plane caused considerable consternation on the German vessel. The plane had already reported the ship as a warship, and a large and suspicious one - the two triple heavy turrets made it extremely likely this was a pocket battleship. On hearing of the sighting, Harwood ordered his force to close her in order to make a definite identification.
The Graf Spee had no real indication of where the plane had come from. It was most likely from a carrier, but there was also the possibility it was based on land, as it was just about close enough. The initial thought, that this was a spotting plane from a cruiser, was discarded once it was seen the plane had wheels, not floats. Unfortunately for the Germans, the British cruiser force was fairly close, and in any case had a considerable speed advantage. For a short time, the ship tried to bluff off the patrol planes increasingly pointed questions, but when smoke was detected to the south east this was given up, the ship cleared to action stations and turned north at full speed. Since the British cruisers had a speed advantage of some 7 knots, escape was going to prove difficult.
As per standing instructions, the Venerable allowed the cruisers to draw ahead, while she spotted 8 swordfish with torpedoes on deck (the other 4 of her swordfish were on patrol). As the Graf Spee turned away, the other patrol planes were called back, to help keep an eye on her, Such suspicious behaviour from a ship looking awfully like a pocket battleship really only had one likely cause. The initial identification of the British ships was in error; the Graf Spee thought she was being closed by a light cruiser and 2 destroyers (the Venerable being too far away to be spotted at this time). This led her to believe that this was the carriers (by now, the idea that it was a land based plane had been discarded) escort ships, and while it was going to be very difficult to evade the carriers planes on such a glorious day, if she could destroy or at least heavily damage her escorts, the carrier might withdraw for long enough for them to make their escape that night.
Sadly, as the British ships drew closer, it was seen that they were in fact cruisers. By now the actions of the Graf Spee, and her lack of response to questions, had decided it for Harwood - this was an enemy pocket battleship. Final confirmation was when the ship opened fire on the Swordfish (it was later ascertained that this was to prevent it spotting for the cruiser force). Harwood had made allowance for this sort of encounter in his preparations. Since the Graf Spee outranged the cruisers, and with heavier guns, there was no point in closing with her when the weather was good and he had a carrier full of full of planes following him. So instead of closing, the cruisers moved to keep the range at around 25,000 yards. Given the good weather conditions and the availability of at least 4 TBR planes, there was no worry about losing their quarry.
The first attack from the Venerable was by 8 Swordfish using torpedoes at 1230. Since the target was on her own, they attacked in a hammer and anvil of 4 planes in each. AA fire from the Graf Spee was heavy, and fairly accurate; one swordfish was shot down, and 2 others damaged. However this left 7 torpedoes heading towards the ship. While the pocket battleships were never going to win any prizes as the most agile of ships, Captain Langsdorf managed to avoid 6 of them. The seventh hit the ship forward, causing shock damage and a considerable hole - while termed 'battleships', the class was only an oversized heavy cruiser, with correspondingly poor torpedo protection. Although the fighting power of the ship was not directly affected, she took on a list and slowed considerably as hundreds of tons of water flooded into her.
The Swordfish returned to the carrier, being recovered while the ship carried on preparation for its second strike. Harwood viewed the attack with satisfaction; whatever happened now, that torpedo hit would likely doom the Graf Spee to eventual destruction. For the moment, however, he was perfectly happy to stand and admire the FAA making her an easier target for his ships. The Graf Spee had fired an occasional salvo at him before the attack, but at the range he was shadowing her there was really no chance of a hit - all the giant splashes of water did was raise ironic cheers from the crew.
The Venerables crew had been busy breaking all records for the time taken to arm a dozen Cormorant dive bombers with 1,000lb SAP bombs. In order to save time (and as the risk of any air attack on them was negligible to non-existant), they had armed and fuelled the planes in the hanger to leave the deck free to recover the Swordfish. As soon as this had been done, and the planes struck below, the Cormorants were brought up and arranged for a strike. This would happen only 60 minutes after the torpedo attack on the Graf Spee.
Meanwhile the Graf Spee had brought the damage mainly under control; the airborne torpedo didn't carry enough explosive to do serious underwater damage except by a lucky hit, and although the ships speed was now down to 20kt, and there was still a 4 degree list, she was still capable of fighting. It all depended on how many planes that damn carrier had, and how effective they were.
The crew watches with morbid fascination as the Cormorants neared. At first, they expected this to be a level bombing attack, and Langsdorf was quietly optimistic that a dozen planes wouldn't be enough for a successful one. This belief was rudely broken as the first 3 planes dropped into a ridiculously steep plunge aimed straight at them. The AA fire of German ships was no better against dive bombers than that of the Royal Navy, and the light AA of the ship was quite limited -indeed, with 8 37mm and 4 cm guns, she carried less close AA than one of the Venerable's escorting destroyers.
The Cormorants stooped in 4 groups of 3 at 1400. The AA fire did damage a couple of them, more by luck than judgement, but that had no effect on their attack.
The first group of 3 managed a complete miss and 2 near missed that showered the ship with water and splinters. Before the crew had time to do more than breathe a sigh of relief, the second wave was heading down. This time, they were more successful. One bomb landed in the water close enough to cause shock damage. The second bomb was a miss, but the third sliced straight through the 2" deck armour and exploded enthusiastically on its first (and last) encounter with a German diesel in the forward engine room, causing the entire propulsion system to shut down due to the shock. With the ship slowing rapidly, the last 6 planes had an easier target. Even so, there was only one more hit, although a number of the others were close enough to cause more splinter damage. The final bomb, however, landed straight on top of the aft triple turret. While this boasted 4" of armour plate, the effect of the 1,000lb bomb was to completely wreck it, jamming it on its turret ring and killing the crew by blast and shock
All the planes made it back to the carrier, although 2 were too damaged for another strike, and one had to ditch next to the escort. Fortunately both of the crew survived.
The cruisers followed the ship like hopeful vultures, as the Venerable informed Harwood that they would be able to launch another 6 Swordfish in 30-40 minutes. As the Graf Spee was obviously going nowhere, especially at 11 knots, Harwood decided to wait and let the planes get in one more strike. He had the afternoon left, and even if this strike was unsuccessful he could afford a second dive-bomber attack before committing his cruisers. the more the Graf Spee was damaged, the less damage he would take in sinking her.
The second Swordfish strike took off some 40 minutes later, and was in range of the Graf Spee not many minutes later at about 1515. As there were only 6 of them , and the ship was moving slowly, they went for a simultaneous attack on either quarter. The flight attacking on the port side missed although one torpedo came very close, but the attack from starboard hit her twice. One torpedo hit forward, causing damage and letting in yet more water; the other hit amidships, and the shock effect stopped the remaining diesels even as the water started to flood into the engine compartment
Harwood saw the explosions and the obvious sudden slowing of his target, and grabbed the opportunity. The 3 cruisers bore in on the Graf Spee at full power, the Exeter opening fire first, the Ajax and Achilles closing into effective range of their 6" guns. They had a window of opportunity as the Graf Spee was paralysed by the bomb damage, and by the time the men on its bridge had realised of their attack, the cruisers had already closed the range and were straddling the ship.
Despite this, the Graf Spee fought back as hard as she could, but the shock from the air attacks had damaged her rather delicate radar fire control, and as a result the fore turret and the 5.9" guns were having to be worked in local control. While they did manage a number of hits on the British ships - Exeter was hit by one 11" shells and 2 5.9" which did considerable damage, and the light cruisers received a number of 5.9" hits, the damage from a growing number of 8" and 6" shells turned the superstructure of the Graf Spee into ruin. With only the forward turret operational, and with the 5.9" guns only having limited arcs of fire, the agile light cruisers made the most of the vulnerable stern aspect of the ship, closing the range to where even their lighter 6" shells could cause serious damage. The growing list of the Graf Spee didn't help, slowing her rate of fire considerably. Finally the Exeter hit the forward turret; while it was heavily armoured, the concussion put it and the crew out of action for a time. With the ship now nothing more than a listing, wallowing target, only 2 5.9" guns on the port side of the ship, Harwood indicated to the Achilles to close and finish her with torpedoes. The cruiser fired 2 21" torpedoes into the Graf Spee's starboard side, and the larger warheads were the final blow to the ship. Within minutes the crew could be seen jumping off as the list rapidly reaches an unrecoverable angle, and less than 10 minutes later the ship capsized and sank.
There was later a certain amount of criticism of Harwood for attacking before using the final dive-bomber strike, but as he pointed out it was starting to get hazy, and while a night action was quite acceptable, it was far better to attack the Graf Spee while she was temporarily incapacitated by the torpedo hits, and he still had a final strike available that day - in any case, it would not have been ready for 3-40 minutes. If his ships had taken heavy damage, he would have withdrawn and used the final Cormorant strike before closing again.
As it was the Admiralty, the British public and the First Lord were most pleased with the result. one of Germanies heavy pocket battleship had been sunk with minimal damage to the British ships, and many in the Admiralty were very satisfied that the concepts of the FAA and the light carrier had been so well vindicated. While there was still a strong battleship lobby in the Admiralty, even they acknowledged the usefulness of the carriers now. The battle was dubbed by the press the Battle of the River Plate, something that made the Admirals sigh as they were well over two hundred miles away from the Plate; however the name stuck.
The result of the battle was also to provide the final argument for Operation Cormorant, which was scheduled for the end of December (the plan needed a 3/4 or better moon, and some of the carriers spread across the world needed to be brought back home.
I hesitate to call this a battle, given how one-sided it turned out to be, but it was nontheless another very well written chapter. I'd hate to be a German raider facing this ATL RN.
Everytime I see the title for this TL I see this image...
A classic black and white cartoon picture.
Pictured:
A scared Hitler standing over a city labeled Berlin looking up...
at a giant flying, winged, churchill-faced whale poised for a belly splash landing right on him.
In the background your hear the TF2 medic saying "Nein" (From TF2 "Meet the Spy" video)
A classic black and white cartoon picture.
Pictured:
A scared Hitler standing over a city labeled Berlin looking up...
at a giant flying, winged, churchill-faced whale poised for a belly splash landing right on him.
In the background your hear the TF2 medic saying "Nein" (From TF2 "Meet the Spy" video)
Excellant, looking forward to the next installment.
If Operation Cormorant cripples the Kriegsmarine as badly as the size of the strike suggests, along with the improved Fleet Air Arm might it butterfly away Operation Weserubung and the occupation of Norway? Things were already fairly tight in terms of shipping for the Germans from what I can remember. Of course the best outcome would be for them to try it anyway, fail, and have Norway come into the war as one of the Allies rather than just remaining neutral. That way they can choke off the Kriegsmarine by controlling both sides of the North Sea so that all they're left to work with are the U-boats, but then you can't have everything.
I may have missed something but with the Deutschland having headed back to Germany I think the Graf Spee was the only large raider out and about so it's just the merchant raiders left, and as you say they're going to be in for an awful time of it.
If Operation Cormorant cripples the Kriegsmarine as badly as the size of the strike suggests, along with the improved Fleet Air Arm might it butterfly away Operation Weserubung and the occupation of Norway? Things were already fairly tight in terms of shipping for the Germans from what I can remember. Of course the best outcome would be for them to try it anyway, fail, and have Norway come into the war as one of the Allies rather than just remaining neutral. That way they can choke off the Kriegsmarine by controlling both sides of the North Sea so that all they're left to work with are the U-boats, but then you can't have everything.
Excellant, looking forward to the next installment.
I may have missed something but with the Deutschland having headed back to Germany I think the Graf Spee was the only large raider out and about so it's just the merchant raiders left, and as you say they're going to be in for an awful time of it.
If Operation Cormorant cripples the Kriegsmarine as badly as the size of the strike suggests, along with the improved Fleet Air Arm might it butterfly away Operation Weserubung and the occupation of Norway? Things were already fairly tight in terms of shipping for the Germans from what I can remember. Of course the best outcome would be for them to try it anyway, fail, and have Norway come into the war as one of the Allies rather than just remaining neutral. That way they can choke off the Kriegsmarine by controlling both sides of the North Sea so that all they're left to work with are the U-boats, but then you can't have everything.
Well, I was originally just going to keep this short and do Cormorant, but it seems to have grown...
So I think I may carry on, which means Norway is the next big operation.
Cormorant wont actually cripple the KM, but it will hit it badly, and Norway isnt going to go as well after.
There will still be a few ships left after Norway, I have another fate in store for them...
I'm still really undecided about Norway, there are a number of options.
Allow the Germans to land their initial forces (this would be believeable despite more air patrols, the KM really lucked out with the weather. In this case the allies do better, but with the initial landings in place they still dont hold Norway.
If the extra patrols spot some of the initial landings (especialy likely with the northern ones), its likely the alies are in northern norway in force while the Germans are in the south (its fairly ASB not to have the Germans in control in teh south). Then the choices are that the allies get driven back and evacuate, evacuate anyway after Dunkirk, or hold on until the winter closes Norway down. In which case we do have a continuing campaign, and convoy battles Scotland-Norway, and less Atlantic U-boats as a result. It also has repercussions for the RAF and the bomber nuts...
Well, I was originally just going to keep this short and do Cormorant, but it seems to have grown...
So I think I may carry on, which means Norway is the next big operation.
Cormorant wont actually cripple the KM, but it will hit it badly, and Norway isnt going to go as well after.
There will still be a few ships left after Norway, I have another fate in store for them...
I'm still really undecided about Norway, there are a number of options.
Allow the Germans to land their initial forces (this would be believeable despite more air patrols, the KM really lucked out with the weather. In this case the allies do better, but with the initial landings in place they still dont hold Norway.
If the extra patrols spot some of the initial landings (especialy likely with the northern ones), its likely the alies are in northern norway in force while the Germans are in the south (its fairly ASB not to have the Germans in control in teh south). Then the choices are that the allies get driven back and evacuate, evacuate anyway after Dunkirk, or hold on until the winter closes Norway down. In which case we do have a continuing campaign, and convoy battles Scotland-Norway, and less Atlantic U-boats as a result. It also has repercussions for the RAF and the bomber nuts...
It's a tough call as you don't want to risk people shouting BRITWANK! at you because things start to snowball in favour of the RN, but it is hard to see the Germans being as successful in Norway as they were if Cormorant is as damaging as it sounds like it will be. I'd agree that a fairly OTL invasion of the South sounds plausible, but with the North is up for grabs. The Germans will still have the initiative, better organised plans and I see no reasons for the Norwegians to be more alert than they were OTL. On the other hand, with less shipping available tolaunch the northern parts of the invasion and with more air support available from the FAA to interdict them, it is just possible that Norway might become a major battleground in this timeline. IF the British get established in Northern Norway then the resultant convoy battles would not go well for u-boats, compared to the Atlantic. Air cover should be possible for the entire journey (weather permitting).
You're quite right; Deutschland was the other raider out, and she slipped home; its autumn in the North Atlantic and North Sea, and AS radar isnt workng yet, so its reasonably easy for her to do.
Until AS radar (which will be a little earlier, but not much) is working well, slipping past the RN requires evasion; the difference now is that the carrier planes give them much more chance of intercepting a raider if they find one, not in detecting them in the first place
Yes, its a question of is holding northern norway a britwank, really..
Cormorant does leave the KM with enough ships to (just!) do Norway; especially with pointed comments from Hitler of 'if it cant help me with Norway, whats the point of having a surface fleet...'
There is always the option, even if the British do better, of having them withdraw after Dunkirk, it rather depends how well they are doing. The fact that the KM is virtually extinct at that point is another issue; will it make them less likely to worry about an invasion...
OTOH, a battle over the supply lines to Norway could be interesting too (although the RAF are probably going to make a complete mess of the air cover....
So what happens to Norway if the KMG gets a big early hit? Does Norway itself manage to fight off the Germans? What does Norway do next? Does it join the Allies, or does it revert to armed neutrality with a strong preference to the Allies? Does Hitler pay compensation?
Actually if I go with the same dates and assume the same weather as OTL, there is only one force the RN can intercept, even with a carrier, and even thats iffy. Once the weather improves, of course, anything in the north and central gets the interest of the FAA....
Norway cant fight off the germans on their own. Since the whole point of invading Norway was to occupy it (or at least to safeguard the ore freighters, which is basically the same thing), Hitler wont be interested in them being neutral except with the sort of conditions he imposed on Vichy France. I cant see the Norwegians going for that.
From John Winton’s ‘Convoy The Defence of Sea Trade 1890 – 1990
‘Appleyard (Commander Rollo Appleyard RNVR) published his conclusions in June 1918, in a treatise called ‘The Elements of Convoy Defence in Submarine Warfare’, with two supplements, an ‘Escort Supplement’ and an ‘Evasion Supplement’.’
This was a study that looked at the lessons learned from convoy escort during WW1 and had established how escorts and the convoy should react to an attack, that large convoys were better than small convoys etc
However, it was considered confidential and very few had a chance to read it
‘Finally, in 1939, they were declared obsolete and ordered to be destroyed, although copies do still survive in libraries’
If a way can be found to butterfly away this ridiculous order, I suspect convoys would benefit.
‘Appleyard (Commander Rollo Appleyard RNVR) published his conclusions in June 1918, in a treatise called ‘The Elements of Convoy Defence in Submarine Warfare’, with two supplements, an ‘Escort Supplement’ and an ‘Evasion Supplement’.’
This was a study that looked at the lessons learned from convoy escort during WW1 and had established how escorts and the convoy should react to an attack, that large convoys were better than small convoys etc
However, it was considered confidential and very few had a chance to read it
‘Finally, in 1939, they were declared obsolete and ordered to be destroyed, although copies do still survive in libraries’
If a way can be found to butterfly away this ridiculous order, I suspect convoys would benefit.
I do have a summary for the specs - if anyone feels like doing pics I'll add them to them
(I assume you all already know what a swordfish looks like
Yes, the monoplane replacement is almost ready, so this will be the last Swordfish strike...
Aircraft in 1939
Gloster Goshawk Mk1 - 7,200lb,1300hp, speed 310kt, range 800m. Armament 2 0.5" machine guns, 2 20mm Hispano cannon.
Martin-Baker Cormorant Mk 1 - 6,000lb (empty), 1300hp, speed 230kt, range 950m, 1,000lb bomb (range only possible with 500lb of bombs)
Fairy Swordfish - 4,200lb (empty), 800hp, 120kt, range 475m with MkXII torpedo
Gloster Goshawk Mk1 - 7,200lb,1300hp, speed 310kt, range 800m. Armament 2 0.5" machine guns, 2 20mm Hispano cannon.
Martin-Baker Cormorant Mk 1 - 6,000lb (empty), 1300hp, speed 230kt, range 950m, 1,000lb bomb (range only possible with 500lb of bombs)
Fairy Swordfish - 4,200lb (empty), 800hp, 120kt, range 475m with MkXII torpedo
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