Very true. Monetarily the Ottomans in 1924 cannot afford to see yemen go, but in 2012 they can.
Osman Reborn; The Survival of Ottoman Democracy [An Ottoman TL set in the 1900s]
- Thread starter Sarthak
- Start date
The rise of guildism in Germany is concerning but not surprising. Still, Heinze is riding one hell of a high. Let's see how he will fuck up (or the world fucks up for him) to see that go to shit.
The more you tease about Arab nationalism failing completely by 1946, the more intrigued I get. I have a feeling life would be a wild ride in Iraq during the second Great War.
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The Germans vengeance will be bloody and frankly I will enjoy watching it,
I have always had a sort of appreciation of the struggles French British and Yugoslavian governments faced in the form of the German war machine.
For the French it is laying the foundation of WW1 with there hate over the Franco Prussian war, laying the foundation of trench warfare, laying the foundation of World War II in the treaty of Versailles, and and laying the foundation of their own defeat by squandering years of interwar peace by not preparing for the round two they set up and arrogantly assuming they could defeat the Germans easily.
for the English it is for their hypocrisy of empire building and seeing the impenetrable Albion lay to waste by the German Luftwaffe
And for Serbia it is for starting the war and getting away with it by being on the right side and being allowed to crush other minorities into its state while the entente was allowed to grant independence to every minority group in Europe.
germany lost but you can not argue that they avenged themselves of there hypocritical enemies of Great War, I find it ironic then that it was the Soviet Union and the United States that would bring the end to such Hateful and evil regime. One was a state the German empire had a direct and willing hand in creating (even if out of desperation) , the other was a nation that did little wrong to Germany and in fact had sympathy for them until a serious of minor naval and diplomatic incidents lead to a break down of relations that lead to them becoming their enemy.
Besides Germany becoming like it was iotl but without the whole...holocaust... and I do hope Japan be smart with it's war with Asia and the Europeans, like use spies on Indonesia and the European Colonies, especially French Indochina by helping Ho Chi Min.
Well, they did that historically. Graduates of the Nakano spy school were everywhere in the Asian colonies in the lead-up to war. Though apparently they got fairly disillusioned - many of them were fairly Pan-Asianist and had been cultivating Nationalist groups, so when the IJA rolled in...
Yeah nice to hear that maybe in time they may become close enough to have a free trade area and customs union or with a stretch a monetary union. Without the horror of partition a close relationship like USA and Canada is almost inevitable followed by a similar initial hiccup. Of all the countries I see Bengal will have some trouble with minorities if it includes Assam. But as until recently the entire northeast used the Bengali script so Bengalification of the northeast with a hybrid identity including Assam is probably possible. India would have very small religious minorities and a course very similar to today can be adopted. Pakistan would be having a large Hindu and Sikh minority( I am assuming that the provinces wouldn't be partitioned as the chances of bloodbath increases dramatically) and a massive Punjabi dominance more so than OTL.
One thing that I am wondering is the military. Punjabis formed the bulk of the military at 65% followed by Gurkhas at 15% . India and Bengal more so would lack locally recruited militaries so they would probably have to make a military from the scratch due to that idiotic martial races scheme.
More importantly India would need a nee Capital city as Delhi would be right on the border with Pakistan if Pakistan gets all of Punjab then Delhi is a boder town. The New capital can be Lucknow (if the North is preferred), Nagpur or Jabalpur (if a central location is sought or Mumbai (the largest city in India).
According to me it would be quite hard in India. In Pakistan some of the states could theoretically survive like Bahawalpur, Patiala but not Kashmir Kalat and the Baloch states can be reformed too. The smaller Punjab states can form something like the former Indian State of PEPSU an so can the small states on Kashmir border be reorganized. Many Muslim princes being part of the Muslim League also helps in their acceptance.
In Bengal(including Assam) we have 3 princely states Manipur, whose boundaries are quite reasonable with a proper ethnic and linguistic majority would be allowed easily, maybe make them adopt democratic reforms like the OTL 1947 constitution before they joined India in 1949, the other two Tripura and Cooch Behar were district sized separate units and there would not be much of an issue with them being around. Bengal being a progressive state may make or coerce them to adopt democratic systems and they can keep existing like Yogyakarta in Indonesia, maybe with a bit more identity. Bengal inherits the dominance over Sikkim too ITTL.
India would have a lot of trouble keeping up the Princely States. The bulk of them would fall in India some as small as an estate, poorer than an average zamindar. Gujarat would need a thorough reorganization as the hundreds of States there is a complete mess. Only some states can survive economically. The contempt the Congress had for the Princely States makes their survival more difficult. Hyderabad would be on crosshairs since day one with its feudal system and suppression of Hindus being intolerable. If nothing is done we see an earlier revolution in Hyderabad like this one. Mysore and Travancore can survive as they were doing quite well and were seen as role models of governance so they can continue to exist. Central India and Orissa are dotted with unviable Princely State, my money would be that they would be mopped up with pensions being provided to the former Princes. Rajputana states can probably be organized into a PEPSU like state.
Speaking so much about Princely states. In your Indian election parts I didn't notice seats for the Princely States. Did ITTL the British made them allow political parties to contest elections democratically rather than undemocratic nominations they practiced OTL?
The Asafi Jahi would be glad if they are allowed to survive. Their rule of Hyderabad resembled feudal ages and they would be the prime target for the Indian Government and would be forced to reform or perish. Their rule was the worst in India surpassed only by Kashmir. Their cities were quite modern like the rest of the country but the moment you enter the countryside you go back 300 years of social evolution.
Indians could make VCOs(Viceroy's Commissioned Officers) since the beginning of the British rule, actually the VCO corps was nearly entirely Indian for the Indian units. The VCOs were the NCOs(Non Commissioned Officers) of the British Indian Army. The Indianisation process of the armed forces OTL allowed Indians to become full commissioned officers and those Indian trained in India(Indian Military Academy in Dehradun) were called ICOs(Indian Commissioned Officers) who were allowed to command all Indian Army units including Europeans and those(everyone including Indians) trained in Royal Military Academy in Sandhurst were called KCOs(King's Commissioned Officers) any unit across the empire. Indianisation was the process to allow Indians to command all Indians upto the Brigade level although they could command europeans attached to their units too. So what is being done ITTL?
As India, Pakistan and Bengal are becoming Dominions would the Empire be abolished and the Monarch become the King of these three realms or would the title of Emperor continue? If the Emperor becomes the King in these three realms then the Governor-General loses the additional title of Viceroy along with it.
If Germany avenged themselves by beating France and bombing Britain in the Second World War then the Soviets also avenged the defeat of Russia in the First World War from Germany.
It's a pity that Serbia didn't start the Great War ITTL and they were on the wrong side of the war they did start.
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ahmedali
Banned
How is it worse?
From what I've read, the Asaf Jahi were a prosperous period and they were relatively tolerant of Hindus, despite being Muslims, and they were the first Indian state to run railways and public services under the prince's government rather than under the ruler. viceroy. They did not start persecuting Hindus until the last prince of Hyderabad
The North Indian princes were the worst, especially Dogra, Junagadh and Lucknow
I wish to see one of the princes of the princely states become kings of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh instead of Britain.
(The Emir of Bahawalpur is fit to become king of Pakistan because he is a Hashemite descended from the Prophet Muhammad in addition to the Abbasid caliphs and also because he supported the Pakistani government from his pocket and represented Pakistan in international forums)
India should have a monarchy similar to the electoral monarchy in Malaysia because the German Empire model does not seem suitable for India
So I was looking at the respective wealth of Dogra's and Asafa jahi.
Last Nizam's wealth was as per Google around Rs 660 crore. ( 6.6 billion rupees).
Hari Singh's wealth when he was deposed was around Rs 1400 crore ( 14 billion rupees)(which I hope are transferred to state this time).
Dogra's had more than double the wealth of Nizams. So nope on the rich part of the argument too.
ahmedali
Banned
oh
But they are still rich
But the fact that they are Muslims is a convincing argument
Because they will fit in with Kashmir, which has a Muslim majority, more than Hindu Hyderabad
Ehh, I was pointing out that if wealth was a criteria (which it's not by the way), we would have reatined the Dogra's.
No it's not. It doesn't matter if they are muslims or Hindus. Kashmiri's won't be having another monarchy.
^^^
Well not Heinze. He will be remembered quiet fondly by almost all Germans ittl. It's his successor that erm....mucks things up.
Pretty much yeah. It's going to be the 'Unseen and Forgotten' Theatre ittl.
Well Germany is going to have a very peculiar future ittl that's for sure.
Yeah, Japanese spies had managed to crack most eastern colonies pretty easily iotl.
Punjab is more or less going to be divided like otl, so Delhi won't be becoming a border town.
While the monarchies themselves will be kept (Well most of them) as subnational monarchies, they won't have any lands. It will kinda be like the subnational monarchies of Africa otl, wherein they have an official position from government and take part in cultural and local affairs, but their old lands have no status and are appropriated by the government on their wish.
Yup, Indian officers who pass through the academies are allowed to become fully commissioned officers of the British Empire.
Well, it's going to be more complicated than that. The Title 'Emperor of India' remains, but it is slightly amended to become 'Emperor of the Indias', with three new titles - King of Bengal, Pakistan and India being created. The three Indian dominions are going to remain in an economic union with one another. And yes Viceroy is abolished as a title and the GG post becomes largely ceremonial like otl.
Not helped, of course, by the British being bloody idiots who couldn't tell Japanese apart from Chinese. With the consequence that most of the waiters etc. in Singapore who they thought were Chinese were actually Japanese spies.
to be fair to the Brits, Nakano did teach foreign languages, Chinese, English and Russian most prominently, so the Japanese spies could moderately pass up as Chinese. It was the lack of proper passport checking to identify them that was really what was shooting in the British in the foot. 38 spies in Malaya had actual Japanese passport otl, but they weren't detected by the colonial authorities like at all
Yes, well if your racist then you won't care to differentiate since they're all the same. In which case such bigotry is only an advantage to your opponents.