Great for Navarre. I know quests for "natural borders" usually just lead to bloodshed, but they do look nice!
Una diferente ‘Plus Ultra’ - the Avís-Trastámara Kings of All Spain and the Indies (Updated 11/7)
- Thread starter Torbald
- Start date
I'll level with you, I think this is a bad idea.
From my personal experience of timelines I follow that have undergone a reboot few to none have gotten back to the point where they were originally rebooted, let alone further. I'd liken it to playing a game, making a lot of progress and then having it crash without a save. It's just so very unsatisfying to cover the same ground you just had previously, many a playthrough of mine was abandoned this way
I imagine writing a reboot is like that, going over the same things as before but slightly different, very grindy.
But even more fundamentally it's just a big time investment. You've already put in a lot time into this and now you are looking to almost double that investment just to get back to where you are now. Not good economics that eh? Kidding aside this is also your hobby, meaning it competes with other leisure, personal time and most importantly work for your time. So unlike GRRM when he gets off his fat ass and finishes his story you don't have a ton of money waiting for you as a motivation. Instead you will have to make sacrifices most likely in pursuit of your passion.
Anyway this might come off as a bit of a downer but really I think it might be wiser to stick to what you have. Instead bring older chapters up to polish as a way of improving the work when you have the time and inclination. With maaaybe some small changes here and there. Come to think of it, wasn't that your original intent?
And don't get me wrong, I love your timeline and will keep reading no matter what you choose. I just think it's better to not go through with the reboot. Best of luck to you @Torbald either way!
From my personal experience of timelines I follow that have undergone a reboot few to none have gotten back to the point where they were originally rebooted, let alone further. I'd liken it to playing a game, making a lot of progress and then having it crash without a save. It's just so very unsatisfying to cover the same ground you just had previously, many a playthrough of mine was abandoned this way
I imagine writing a reboot is like that, going over the same things as before but slightly different, very grindy.But even more fundamentally it's just a big time investment. You've already put in a lot time into this and now you are looking to almost double that investment just to get back to where you are now. Not good economics that eh?
Kidding aside this is also your hobby, meaning it competes with other leisure, personal time and most importantly work for your time. So unlike GRRM when he gets off his fat ass and finishes his story you don't have a ton of money waiting for you as a motivation. Instead you will have to make sacrifices most likely in pursuit of your passion.Anyway this might come off as a bit of a downer but really I think it might be wiser to stick to what you have. Instead bring older chapters up to polish as a way of improving the work when you have the time and inclination. With maaaybe some small changes here and there. Come to think of it, wasn't that your original intent?
And don't get me wrong, I love your timeline and will keep reading no matter what you choose. I just think it's better to not go through with the reboot. Best of luck to you @Torbald either way!
Respectfully disagree. I rebooted my Burgundian TL a year ago and I am more invested in it than the old one. I think @Torbald feels the same way I did, that he missed too many opportunities that could have been explored and learned more about the history of the subject and wanted to redo it. I know that several people were not to happy with my decision, but many more have come to my new one and several old readers as well. I think rebooting a story works well in this forum, as we frequently give points and ideas that move the story along for the authors.I'll level with you, I think this is a bad idea.
From my personal experience of timelines I follow that have undergone a reboot few to none have gotten back to the point where they were originally rebooted, let alone further. I'd liken it to playing a game, making a lot of progress and then having it crash without a save. It's just so very unsatisfying to cover the same ground you just had previously, many a playthrough of mine was abandoned this way
The thing about that is that it will cause confusion with the comments in the older chapters and people may not read it as well. That was what I intended originally, but I opted for rebooting it completely to get new life in it.
I'll level with you, I think this is a bad idea.
From my personal experience of timelines I follow that have undergone a reboot few to none have gotten back to the point where they were originally rebooted, let alone further. I'd liken it to playing a game, making a lot of progress and then having it crash without a save. It's just so very unsatisfying to cover the same ground you just had previously, many a playthrough of mine was abandoned this way
But even more fundamentally it's just a big time investment. You've already put in a lot time into this and now you are looking to almost double that investment just to get back to where you are now. Not good economics that eh?
Anyway this might come off as a bit of a downer but really I think it might be wiser to stick to what you have. Instead bring older chapters up to polish as a way of improving the work when you have the time and inclination. With maaaybe some small changes here and there. Come to think of it, wasn't that your original intent?
And don't get me wrong, I love your timeline and will keep reading no matter what you choose. I just think it's better to not go through with the reboot. Best of luck to you @Torbald either way!
The things needing to be changed with the TL are too numerous, too disagreeable, and too unrealistic for me to just polish it up and make small changes. It's too time consuming writing this for me to keep pushing out updates for a TL that I dislike. It's either reboot this TL or declare it dead.
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Then I suggest rebooting it. It is too good to let die completely.
Speaking from experience, rebooting a TL could either end up great or terrible. It usually starts really good because you can backtrack more, nail some early pods or issues with the first chapters to set a larger, more robust basis from the TL, and just write a better TL by incorporating all the lessons you have learned since your first edition. Re-editing some parts can make you think "how silly I was to think this was posisble/made sense?" and encourage you further, but sometimes, the reboot is essentially a repeat of the original since you've reached a part that you think requires no major changes (Great Turkish War in this TL I suppose), and that's where burnout may appear, as the creative strike is diluted and limited to minor fixes if you still want the same or similar outcome. This happened to me during the Napoleonic Wars' arc of my TL, and I ended up writing myself into a corner by playing the "this goes similar to OTL despite the PoD affecting everybody involved 70 years ago" and only did minor retcons outside of America and India. My TL died shortly after, and while the previous version (thrashy as it was) reached 1851, the furthest I got in the reboot was 1823. I assume Torbald is a much more dedicated individual than I am, and would not be bogged down in that repeat-burnout, and those parts can even be considered as "breaks" that require little input. Anyhow, when rebooting, it is a must before starting, to isolate the areas you want to change and analyze what impacts your changes would have in the rest of the story, else you end up in a tight spot without a way to get the parts you want to keep as they were in the previous version.
But, overall, I support a reboot, depite really wanting to see this TL develop further into the modern age.
But, overall, I support a reboot, depite really wanting to see this TL develop further into the modern age.
@Torbald , since you already indicated that England would remain Catholic in your TL (and its possible redux), would there be some modifications in its (future) colonization policies?
I doubt the English would care about Tordesillas or an ATL equivalent. If the French still colonized IOTL despite being a Catholic country not named Spain or Portugal, the English would too.
Well, for Álvares Cabral time the route was fairly well known and established, the Portuguese travels always bypassed the Canaries, so I don't think that it would be the causal factor leading to the discovery of Brazil ...
Also, even if I tend to believe that the Linguistic side/impact on both Iberians Languages, even if fascinating for me at least, wouldn't be possible to be explored, given that it would be extremely speculative and do risk to be too technical for a English Language based non Linguistic thread.
But, even so, I want to do mention that for any related discussion, should be taken into account that for the Spanish Language evolution,the XV and XVI were key not only for the discovery and settling in America but for the radical phonetic shift, consonantic change (akin to the GVS in the English lang) that marked the transition from the Medieval Spanish to the 'Phonology of the Modern variants'.
The Treaty of Tordesillas is unlikely to stop anyone from intruding on Spain's claimed spheres of exclusivity in Africa, Asia, and the Americas. However, England's continued Catholicism and its longstanding friendship with the House of Avis will seriously affect its approach to overseas involvement ITTL, since it will be significantly less hostile to Spanish in interests and predatory towards its possessions.
I'm aware of earlier Portuguese visitation to Brazil, but Cabral's landing was still a definitive moment of discovery. Brazil is still going to be discovered by Iberian explorers, but that discovery is going to be delayed and the interest in the region that follows is going to be diminished compared to OTL.
The point being that Portugal's interest in Brazil before the stabilization of Pernambuco and São Paulo/Rio and the discovery of gold was minimal, and was heavily motivated by protecting Portuguese territorial integrity against Spanish competitors. The competition with Castile ITTL is greatly reduced by TTL's Iberian Union, and said union also brings a greater access for Portugal to Castile's American possessions, which are more developed and more immediately appealing than anything Brazil had to offer in the first half of the 16th century. Brazil is inevitably going to be neglected by the Portuguese, and by extension Spain.
Re: Language - I've always been interested in TTL's development of "Standard" Spanish. The Portuguese might be outnumbered by the Castilian, but this Iberian Union is still Portuguese-led, at least early on. This means that TTL's Spanish language might not be a carbon copy of OTL Castilian but might be a language that preserves elements like the voiceless postalveolar fricative for the letter X, the voiced labiodental fricative for the letter V, and the voice velar plosive for all uses of the letter G ("gigante" pronounced gee-gahnte rather than hee-gahnte). Some alphabetic compromises between Spanish and Portuguese might also be made, like the Castilian "ñ" and the Portuguese "nh" replaced by a more Latinesque "ni", e.g. "montaña/montanha" instead being "montania", or "España/Espanha" instead being "Espania/Hispania".
Makes sense about the Spanish being more focused on developed territories and neglecting others and it opens the possibility for conflict between Spain and other states in a traditionally Iberian continent, although I would think that after the initial surprise of other states like France or the Nederlands making a state in South America the Spanish would become more interested in stopping further expansion or other states from taking a slice of the pie.
It will be interesting to see if French Equinoctial Brazil succeeds due to the Iberian Union united instead of competing against each other.
I really like the idea of a Spanish/Iberian language being more incorporating of languages other than Castillan. It could make it easier to make all of the peninsula speak one language perhaps? Since it doesn’t draw as much on one group in particular? Would the Catalan language also be more included in this ttl version of Spanish? Also liking them drawing more on the Latin language. They could perhaps use that as a claim of them being true inheritors of Rome
A properly united Spanish language sounds good. Great for unity.I really like the idea of a Spanish/Iberian language being more incorporating of languages other than Castillan. It could make it easier to make all of the peninsula speak one language perhaps? Since it doesn’t draw as much on one group in particular? Would the Catalan language also be more included in this ttl version of Spanish? Also liking them drawing more on the Latin language. They could perhaps use that as a claim of them being true inheritors of Rome
There's no need for now to do that, the main element of unity of Spain is its monarchy and the catholic faith. In the future, with the rise of liberal and nationalist ideas it will be already too late to change them to one unified language or it may too expensive for the state. Plus, it damages the cultural identity of the iberian peoples. There are more ways to create a national feeling of unity, like festivals, new traditions, or connecting old traditions with the idea of a Spain of which they belong or are part.I really like the idea of a Spanish/Iberian language being more incorporating of languages other than Castillan. It could make it easier to make all of the peninsula speak one language perhaps? Since it doesn’t draw as much on one group in particular? Would the Catalan language also be more included in this ttl version of Spanish? Also liking them drawing more on the Latin language. They could perhaps use that as a claim of them being true inheritors of Rome
Of course, that's assuming that nationalism will become as much of a big thing as in OTL...