1864 "The South by a nose"

[Earling]

The only thing I don't see is what could happen that could stop Sherman.

Unimaginitive and possibly impossible, but couldn't disease lower his forces effectiveness untill it is impossible to continue? That said its a bit of a cop out I suppose...

 

[Brilliantlight]

One key point that is key to this discussion is that while GB is clearly the stronger of the two powers, it has world wide responsibilities and interests that the US doesn't have. Thus, while the RN is larger, it also has to be spread out over more territories.

GB is engaged in a global game, not a local one, and has to respond to a much larger picture. For example, where is it going to get the ships from? They're not all just sitting around doing nothing, they have to come from somewhere, and when they leave that place, how are those interests to be guarded?

Thus, it is clear that there will be no war between the Union and GB because there can be no winners in the war, but can GB come forward and help form a peace that will leave the 'rump' of the CSA in existance?

I think it is possible that if public opinion in GB was strongly for the CSA, GB might have sought some accomodation, and, to be honest, I think given the right incentives the Union might have gone for it.

What incentives could outweigh giving up a good portion of the country? There are no realistic incentives that the Brits could give that would outweigh that.

 

[Cockroach]

It turns out that the brick construction is vulnerable to sustained artillary bombardment, but the men inside aren't. Ft. Sumter was hammered for months and still held out. Ft. Sumter has only fallen to starvation. One ship in to the harbor a month earlier and Ft. Sumter would still have been holding out in 1862. At least, that's how it worked out for the Confederates in Ft. Sumter.
This assumes that the ship has men as well as supplies. Say, another two hundred men to go with the two hundred and forty tons of supplies? One ton per man? The original fort was unmanned.
The fort is not that important, but the cannons came in usefull for the south

Even if the garrison isn't vulnerable what use is a fort when all the heavy guns are out of action?

 

[Tielhard]

Help please

Please can anyone help? I am posting this in a couple of places just to make sure everyone with an interest will see it.

I have been following up the question posed by Grimm Reaper on the relative sizes and dispositions of the armies and navies of the CSA, USA and British Empire at the time of the American Civil War for some time. I am doing quite well on the navies. I have found a complete list of ships in all three navies but the USN and RN lists run from the year dot to the present so it is taking time to process. My results for RN capital ships is in good agreement with those found by MrP but his source seems to underestimate RN cruising ships and the size of the USN’s oceanic fleet.

On the subject of armies it is much easier to work out the position of the British as they are at peace with all Europe and the size of their army is stable. Give or take a tad I basically agree with the numbers suggested by Raymann for the British themselves but I am having serious problems with colonial forces particularly India. So, first question.

1) Does anyone have any idea of the size of the British Indian Army (as opposed to the British Army in India) between 1859 and 1867? If not does anyone know of any authoritative reference books on the subject?

There seem to be many sources on the net which state the number of dead, wounded/infirm, captured, deserted, taken prisoner in the American Civil War. Give of take the odd one most of these are in fair agreement for both the USA and CSA. However, there are huge discrepancies over the total numbers that had served by the end of the war:

Federal: 1,600,000 minimum to 2,130,00 maximum
Confederate: 750,000 minimum to 1,405,00 maximum

I have also found a number of references that suggest the number of Union troops remaining by the end of the war was around 850,000 - 950,00 but if I do the sums based on the attrition figures I have I cannot get even close to this figure from the total number serving. The situation is even worse for the Confederacy where only 175,000 actually surrendered. However I think this second situation is explained by the fact many of them probably just went home.

I have found that there were about 106,000 seamen and marines in the USN but I have no idea if this is the total served or the size at some point in the war.

So questions:

2) Does anyone have any clearly defined figures for the total number of soldiers that served in the Union armies OR the number of soldiers in the Union armies at the end of the war?

3) As above for the Confederate army?

4) Does anyone know if navy and marine figures are rolled into the above or separate? Does anyone have any idea about numbers in the Confederate Navy? Am I not right in thinking that the US marines fought as infantry? I seem to remember being told they broke at Bull Run but I can’t find any info. on the net.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[DMA]

Welcome to American Civil War statistics 101 Tielhard.

About the only certainty on such numbers is uncertainty. For example, I've seen about 5 different sets of figures for Gettysburg &, needless to say, there are a lot more battles with numerous figures as well.

There's a lot of reasons for the varying numbers. One is how well the rolls were kept if at all. Another is whether the rolls are called before or after a battle or even what day of the week the roll was called. Another is wounded men come & go, as their wounds heal, thus sometimes these men can be counted twice or not at all. Another is sickness. Another is whether troops, who go AWOL, are or aren't counted. And the list goes on...

 

[DMA]

Oh for information on the British try Regiments.Org