Would it be feasible to blow up Heligoland like was done with 'nuisance' islands and seamounts around New York City in the early 20th century? Or would it take too much high explosives thus making it a pain in the ass? (I'm not even going to talk about nukes because of course they could technically erase the entire island but it is also turning the 'eraser dust' into nuclear fallout so yeah no bueno).
A Blunted Sickle - Thread II
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Hecatee
Donor
I would think that the fact Poland would have one border less to defend, gain more sea access (so no possibility to cut them from it by just taking Dantzig), and have a compensation for any land lost to Russia which is a nicely fortified area would all make it interesting for everyone but the Soviets to see Poland get all of Eastern Prussia
Was tried in OTL - search for “Operation Big Bang”. 3.2kT equivalent of war-surplus explosives and they only put a bit of a dent in it.
Hitler in a nutshell was Euthanized after surviving an assassination attempt, but receiving major brain damage.
His bodyguards trying to hide his identity, lost track of him in a hospital and became just another anonymous "Useless Eater" whom the State killed and cremated.
Kinda Ironic, dontcha think?
His bodyguards trying to hide his identity, lost track of him in a hospital and became just another anonymous "Useless Eater" whom the State killed and cremated.
Kinda Ironic, dontcha think?
I like the irony, but it risks a future with even more doubt regarding what became of Hitler, with the implications re:neofash.
This is Germany: the records exist, but nobody has joined the dots. They'll figure it out eventually.
Ramontxo
Donor
Just one thing. You have mentioned previously that you have a lot of work on how somethings (Aviation Engineering and many others) would develop on this TL fifties and sixties. If you ever despair of following this TL would you mind providing an access to your notes? In any case thanks a lot for your work.
Given what the Germans have been up to in Poland, not a chance. Poles will demand a militarily defensible border which means removing the ability of Germany to attack from 2 sides ( and even with all of East Prussia included in its new borders, Poland is still a net loser in territory in terms of km2 ) . Same with population transfers , once the word of the Holocaust spreads, no one will bat a lid about Germans being forced out.
Ramontxo
Donor
There have not been an holocaust. Germany is defeated and shall (probably) lose some more core Territories but is free from the wholesale destruction brought by Bomber Command and the US Army Air Corps. The Nazi Party has been totally discredited, having committed horrible crimes (specially in Poland) but Germany is delivered from the eternal shame of the Holocaust. There is no way that another Stab in the Back myth can survive French and British Army Corps racing through the Heimat. This why I described this TL as the best German Wank on the whole of Alt History
Relative to OTL it might have a lower body count but the Holocaust in Poland started September 1st 1939, by 1st Jan 1940 it was already over 100K.
Ramontxo
Donor
AIUI the SHOA was the ultimate evil. The industrialised attempt to change the Sociological Composition of Europe. As someone said before me "An Conspiracy to Read the Telephone Guide of Paris" and deduce the philological origins of the names in order to choose who to exterminate.
The problem here is that the Finnish/Swedish Union *and* the USSR aren't at war with 3R. Would the Nazis lay down Mines that would keep the Soviets from shipping things out of Leningrad or the Majority of the ports of the Finnish/Sweden Union (including their capitals)?
While the S/F Union definitely isn't under the thumb of the 3R, they are *still* trading with them. The Soviets have the ability to but the screws in, have been trading with the 3R and would trade internationally as well. All I can come up with as a *possible* work around for the 3R would be mining the Danish Straits and forcing all shipping to go through the Kiel Canal, and I just don't expect that to work with the F/S Union or the USSR.
Back in 2015, I posted the following in response to the Author
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OK using http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/killedtable.html and cutting Poland's Jews killed in half (the west was more populated, the east, I believe more heavily Jewish, probably cancel each other out ('ish'))
So Number killed in OTL, *guesses* on percentage relative to OTL killed (assuming the Nazi don't conquer any significant additional territory and end up with equivalent percentages where they do) and result.
Poland: 3000K * .5 = 1500K
Baltic: 228K * 0 = 0
Germany/Austria: 210K *1.0 = 210K
Protectorate: 80K * 1.0 = 80K
Slovakia: 75K * 1.0 = 75K
Greece: 54K * 0 = 0
Netherlands: 105K * 0.1 = 10K
Hungary: 450K * 0 = 0
White Russia: 245K * 0 = 0
Ukraine: 900K * 0 = 0
Belgium: 40K * 0.3 = 12K
Yugo: 26K * 0 = 0
Romania: 300K * 0 = 0
Norway: 900 * .5 = 450
France: 90K * .05 =4K
Bulgaria: 14K * 0 = 0
Italy: 8K *0 = 0
Luxembourg 1K * 1.0 = 1K
Russia: 107K * 0 = 0
I get 1.5M Polish Jews + 393K Jews from elsewhere. (yes, I know my percentage in FR/NL/BE may be a little high
Which means that just as iOTL, the 5.7M Jews is round up to 6M, here 1.9M will be rounded up to 2M.
For non-jews, no Soviet POWs, and fewer Poles almost no Roma/Gypsies, but a lot of the other numbers (Freemasons, political opponents, Homosexuals) similar. However the first two represent by far the largest part of the 5 million non Jews.
Thus, my *guess* numbers are 1.5M Jewish Poles, 1M non-Jewish Poles, .5 M non-Polish Jews and .5 M who are neither Polish or Jewish.
So Jews OTL:6M, TTL:2M, Non-Jews OTL: 5M, TTL 1.5M: Total, OTL:11M, TTL:3.5M
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There were a number of responses and discussion from it, and some minor tweeks, but I don't think the Author had a problem with the estimate. (And I don't remember if Slovakia actually sent their Jews, that might affect things in post-war relations)
The *other* thing that comes out of it is that without the loss of Jews in Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltics *and* gaining Eastern Poland (with few Jews killed in the fighting), Stalin's Soviet Union now has more Jewish subjects than *any* leader has *ever* had OTL. (Most of the Czarist lands *plus* population growth). When the Jewish move to Palestine happens because of the horror of this TL's Holocaust (which even if a third of OTL, is still absolutely horrific) this means that Stalin by opening the faucet for Jews to go to Palestine can make Palestine even less governable than OTL. I even raised the possibility that in trying to keep Palestine from being flooded by Jews that a side effect could make Cyprus Plurality Jewish at least for a short amount of time!
Ohhh, so that was what the Deutsche Bahn was planning for all along...
Thanks for still updating this for time to time - we know you're quite busy, and really appreciate each update! I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to the unreleased material you have for the post-war
Regarding the Holocaust, prior to Barbarossa, the number of Jews killed was on the order of a couple hundred thousand. Most of the victims perished in the ghettos of Poland due to malnutrition, disease, overwork etc. Since the Reich in this timeline collapses in early 1942, I doubt the number would reach seven figures. The ATL Reich has a lot fewer resources to devote towards genocide, and the specific series of events needed to culminate in OTL's Final Solution won't happen.
Unfortunately in OTL when Germany started losing it turned up the ovens. The Nazi mindset does seem to have been , if we are going down so are the Jews. A lot of Jews were, pre Barbarossa, as far as the Nazi's were concerned, being kept alive for use as future slave labour. Without that need they would unfortunately do. worse than OTL.
