A more drawn out end to British Railways steam?

OTL BR ended mainline steam operations in 1968, only a few years after the last steam locomotives had been built. What if they had decided on a more gradual and phased withdrawal of steam, with the final withdrawal in the late 1970s (in common with much of Europe)?

Effects would have been a lot less failed diesel locomotives being built as the need for new motive power wouldn't have been as acute thus untested designs wouldn't be rushed to production often with unfortunate results. Some of the old names in locomotive manufacture like North British probably would have folded a few years earlier than they did of course.

But i am most interested in the effect on the preservation movement, could we have ironically ended up with fewer preserved steam locomotives if the withdrawal was more phased - without the urgency and opportunity mass withdrawal bought to spark the explosion in the movement in the late 60s?
 
What if they had decided on a more gradual and phased withdrawal of steam
Would it not be better just to plan it earlier and better? Small things like thinking about what they actually need to run future services not just buying replacements for each steam engine types...

Effects would have been a lot less failed diesel locomotives being built as the need for new motive power wouldn't have been as acute thus untested designs wouldn't be rushed to production often with unfortunate results.
Or test prototypes and then just only buy the better ones, to do that you might need to free up a lot of the better engineering companies mostly overloaded with defence projects?
 
Would it not be better just to plan it earlier and better? Small things like thinking about what they actually need to run future services not just buying replacements for each steam engine types...

Or test prototypes and then just only buy the better ones, to do that you might need to free up a lot of the better engineering companies mostly overloaded with defence projects?

Well thats what they could have done, if they had waited a few years Beeching's changes removed the need for a lot of replacement locos. Again they should have bought just the good diesel locos but thats kind of the point of my thread... They were in such a rush to replace steam they bought a lot of diesels they didn't actually need / were no good.

As for the bump sorry i didn't know this was against the rules.
 
The original and sensible plan had been to build replacement Steam (a lot of engines were shot to bits from hard work and lack of maintenance during the war) and then withdraw it gradually as mainline electrification and local line diesel came in I think the mid 1970s was the idea. British coal would power the steam locos and then via power stations the electric lines saving the need to buy expensive imported oil with scarce dollars.

What killed off that plan was full employment, fewer and fewer people wanted to work on a dirty old fashioned steam railway when they could get better pay at a nice clean factory or office. So one of the reasons for the dash for diesel was hiring and retaining staff, if BR could have sorted out the Byzantine wage and working practices it inherited from the pre grouping (grouping in 1922 basically changed the cap badges and paint colours) it might have stood a chance.
 

Devvy

Donor
Like everything else, the answer is complicated.

- Politics. BR had requested £1.2 billion in the 1950s to modernise the network, and subsequently got it. That's roughly equal to approx £30 billion today - and look at the amount of people complaining (rightly or wrongly) about the price tag for HS2. BR needed to show results for the investment quickly; part of the reason we ended up with Beeching in the 1960s is because BR couldn't deliver on the investment. Politics is short term, and the Government wanted results from the money to showcase.

- Coal Mines. The coal industry came under attack from cheap oil imports by the late 1950s. Coal (pits) were subsidised as they were not particularly efficient initially; the lack of subsidies caused pits to close.

- Environmental. From the creation of the London Green Belt in the 1940s heralded the start of environmental awareness actually in political action. Steam engines, much as enthusiasts love them, are great bit dirty things. Imagine living next to a railway, with several trains per hour belching out smoke, and then think about the major British cities. People wanted steam engines gone.

- Image & cost. Diesel & electric trains were already present in places. People could see higher speeds and faster acceleration without any help. BR could see the results from better efficiency, easier refuelling, no runrounds (when multiple unit used), and could see they were much cheaper to operate. Diesel and electric trains basically revolutionised train travel with a massive step change. When Beeching came along, for the rail routes which had significant public outcry, there were often investigations in to potential cost savings, which almost always rotated around "have diesel railbuses been tested?". BR rarely listened and usually closed it anyway; but it was known that electric in particular was a draw of passengers to the network. Diesel & electric traction was also substantially cheaper to run then steam.

- Time. The investment in such large numbers of diesel trains came just as the requirements for the national rail operator were changing. Containerisation was just starting to kick in (which was one of the things Beeching would later get right), which meant that BR's existing freight model (of local station yards and little local freight trains trundling through the countryside) was about to become irrelevant. Growing car ownership and motorways would completely change passenger transport. To be fair, you'd have needed a crystal ball to predict what was about to happen, but the large investment in locomotives were often targeted in the wrong area with hindsight.

- And finally, Politics once more. While there was experience of building electric trains in the UK, the '55 Modernisation Plan didn't call for massive electrification - it was more targeted to specific areas of the country, and left diesel traction to fill in the rest. However, UK industry had little experience of diesel traction manufacture; the centre of knowledge was in Germany. However, politics of the time predictably required a nationalised industry to buy British. Consequently, large numbers of ill-suited locomotives were produced, sometimes with large problems that would surface later in their lives. Tallied to this, BR was almost a de facto holding company for the pre-nationalisation "Big Four" companies, which continued to operate as they had, and basically acted completely independently of each other. Consequently, each region stipulated their own requirements, and made no efforts to create common designs for better economies of scales (and potentially allowing workshops more design time per locomotive). The clearest examples is that all but WR (formerly GWR) opted for diesel-electric traction; WR opted for diesel-hydraulic.
 
... to do that you might need to free up a lot of the better engineering companies mostly overloaded with defence projects.
Would there really be that much overlap between the locomotive companies and defence contractors? Even where you had large conglomerates like English Electric or GEC that were involved with both markets I can't see much competition between the different divisions except for the most general of resources.
 
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