A more lethal 1969 Sino-Soviet border incident?

Ariosto

Ariosto

RamscoopRaider said:
Still 40 Aircraft, assuming they get 80% on the ground and stop 87.5% of the remainder in the air that is still one nuke, and even a single nuke can constitute badly damaged. This is assuming that China does not still have a few Tu-4's (or other old bombers) floating around or some of their own fighters capable of carrying nukes (or being modified to in a reasonable amount of time) which makes things even harder to stop, even a primitive plane can get lucky and distracts the enemy. Now if this border incident happened in 72 there would be a few primitive Chinese missiles available.
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Can Jet Engine Craft take off on cratered runways without major risk of crashing on the runway itself?

However yes, if this takes place when the Chinese have the DF-3A's deployed, even with suppression attempts by the Soviets, quite a bit of damage can be caused considering their range. However they appear to be only a fifth the strength of the "Little Boy" dropped on Hiroshima, unless I am comparing the TNT rates incorrectly.​

TheNordicBrit said:
Don't forget the sheer amount of people they'd have to sift through, the Soviets would struggle to move in to China. I doubt the war could be won just on nuclear warfare.
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Never suggested that it would. Manchuria and Inner Mongolia are better suited for Soviet Mechanized Warfare, and considering what I have seen in regards to Chinese doctrine around this time period with the PLA, and their equipment, the Chinese would be hammered and driven back. However any advance beyond these areas into the more populated regions of Central China would become a bloody slog, something which the Soviets would be smart enough to avoid, hopefully. From then on it would be bombing runs while they work to pacify what they already have occupied.​
 
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RamscoopRaider

Donor
Ariosto said:
Can Jet Engine Craft take off on cratered runways without major risk of crashing on the runway itself?
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No they cannot, but will the Soviets get every runway, for that matter a long enough strip of highway could work or a firm enough stretch of flat hard ground that has been carefully picked over assuming the aircraft is rough field capable
 

ObssesedNuker

Conventionally, the Soviets would obliterate the Chinese. The Peoples Liberation Army may be large on paper, but compared to the Soviets it is under-equipped, poorly trained, and actually often had trouble massing its troops so the operational and even tactical manpower ratio's worked in its favor.

The Soviets have not had a great portion of their generals hanged by mobs of fanatic Maoist students. The Cultural Revolution created a organizational mess within the PLA that made Stalin's purges look like minor paper shuffling. At least the Red Army was on the path to come back by 1942 had the Nazis not invaded... the PLA wouldn't recover until the 80's!
 

wietze

I don't know how big the chinese bombs were, but if they are really desperate, why restrict to a bomber. If it is going to be a suicide attack the bomb could be delivered by a freight plane or any other plane taking the weight & size of it.
 

ObssesedNuker

Emperor Norton I said:
What would be the aftermath in the Soviet Union and China of a war, nuclear or otherwise?
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Depends on the outcome. If its a stalemate that drags out (or nuclear weapons are used), we are quite likely looking at a quicker collapse of the USSR no matter the outcome. If the Soviets manage to win rapidly by smashing the PLA, toppling Mao, and establishing a new, Soviet-friendly government then the result is a stronger Communist-block in the longer-term.

If the Chinese manage to win quickly, then we'll all have to check the corners for Alien Space Bats. :p
 

Super_Cool

Emperor Norton I said:
What would be the aftermath in the Soviet Union and China of a war, nuclear or otherwise?
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China becomes a massive Somalia. This could lead to the USSR invading to bring order, leading to an Afghan-like mess.

USSR weakened economically and diplomatically. All nations fear the Soviets for using nukes and run to America for protection.

Communism discredited as the two largest commie nations just nuked each other. Communist parties go extinct around the world.

Cold War ends much faster. America enters God-status due to having no equal, no future equal (China be dead), and better finances with no Reaganomics.
(Reagan would be butterflied with a weak USSR)
 
Chipperback

Chipperback

"Reagan would be butterflied with a weak USSR
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Not necessarily.
Reagan won as much on economic issues as he did foreign issues. And who is to say that the United States still doesn't have a black eye from Vietnam...or we'll have problems from a pissed off anti-Israeli Arab bloc.

And could the USA really sit this one out? Especially if the Soviets threaten Western Europe by threatening say...Hong Kong?

I see dude named Richard Neville watching the Woodstock film in a movie house in a deserted Los Angeles right about now. ;)
 

RamscoopRaider

Donor
Chipperback said:
Not necessarily.
Reagan won as much on economic issues as he did foreign issues. And who is to say that the United States still doesn't have a black eye from Vietnam...or we'll have problems from a pissed off anti-Israeli Arab bloc.

And could the USA really sit this one out? Especially if the Soviets threaten Western Europe by threatening say...Hong Kong?

I see dude named Richard Neville watching the Woodstock film in a movie house in a deserted Los Angeles right about now. ;)
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We wouldn't in this case. Vietnam would be won without massive Soviet aid (look at the size of the invasions the North pulled off), also without that aid the Arabs will lack much of their ability to hurt Israel. Remember this is 69' Vietnam is still going strong and without Soviet support we may get a Korea like situation
 

LeX

Emperor Norton I said:
What would be the aftermath in the Soviet Union and China of a war, nuclear or otherwise?
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Soviet China, People's Republic of China, Republic of China. :p

In the chaos of the Cultural Revolution, it probably wouldn't be hard to get some surrendered PLA officers and CCP officials to break ties with the Maoist government and the CR Committee and set up a Moscow-friendly state in Northeast China. Whether or not the Soviets think they should be in name limited to Manchuria or claim to be the legitimate successor to Mao depends on the situation.
 

SAVORYapple

If the Chinese had used nukes, China would have been GLASSED!!!!!!
The Chinese might have, just to spite the Russians, but the result would probably be an even worse mess than Somalia, with regional warlords taking control of shattered and leaderless forces, and probably an invasion by the nationalists as well, along with U.S. aid to certain factions….in short, the Somalia of Asia…and a big one at that
 

LeX

Well Lin Biao did try defecting in 1971 so it's a possibility. A Soviet-installed regime might actually have some success in the wake of Mao's craziness.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
The Soviets were actually planning on launching a preemptive war on the PRC (complete with nukes) that would have just wrecked China in the most awful meanings of the term. Lin Biao was the USSR's first pick for taking charge of the place once Mao was out of the picture.
 
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