AH Challenge: Another Anglophone Commonwealth Nation

[cerebus]

I think it is noticable that all the dominions are in areas that were suitable for european style agriculture and as has been noted above started out with a low population density. This encourages early British immigration and european style society and culture. The problems with most other colonies is that they were difficult to occupy, settle and farm without late 19th C technology and were often occupied by strong populations with their own agriculture, society and languages.

A dominion hacked out of the jungles of say the Congo is just not on without changing British society so much the result is not really a British Dominion.

However there is one obvious place with good european style climate and low population in addition to those mentioned above.

California. Simply get some sort of minor British settlement before say 1790, perhaps a penal colony like Australia or a whaling protection fort and then wait a hundred years.

 

[perfectgeneral]

Greater Cascadia

Yes, that old chestnut.

Alaska to California as far east as isn't America yet. East/West continental war?

 

[Ridwan Asher]

I would guess that by that measure my Greater Malaysia fails the challenge too.

Shame. I'm proud of the map. An oil rich industrial state on the equator could have a sucessful space programme too.

You were just not proposing the country to be big enough, I think....

 

[Ferdinand Koenig]

Perhaps the British seize all the Egyptian territory east of Suez (basically the Sinai and Gaza). Gaza is very densely populated by Palestinians these days, but I don't think that was always the case. Not going to be an extraordinarily rich or hugely populous Dominion, but probably viable, albeit a mainly coastal population.

 

[Norman]

How about the Dominion of Texas? Couple of different ways:

1: 54-40 blows up and the US and GB come to blows. A compromise is struck and Texas goes to GB.

2: GB intervenes in the Mexican War, then, after winning, decides to keep Texas as a protectorate state, which late evolves into Dominion status.

Here's another, how does the Dominion of Hawaii sound? GB, at the request of the Hawaiian Royal House they choose to intervene when the American annexation seem imminent.

 

[Ferrell]

How about the Commonwealth of Beliz and Jamaica? Combine two existing anglophone countries into one; maybe throw in the British Virgin Isles too?

 

[Deleted member 5719]

Dominion of South Atlantic Territories

Araucanians held off Chileans 10 years longer than OTL, leaving southern Chile more underdeveloped. Colombia keeps hold of Panama and no canal is built. British take Rio Gallegos and Ushuaia from Argentina in exchange for Argie government debts (1902), then they use Argentina's claim to all Tierra del Fuego to engineer a war in which they capture T de F, Magallanes and Chiloe (T de F and Mag had substancial British settlement OTL) in around 1906. The new territories are jointly administed as "Cape Horn Territories" and receive substancial European settlement, attracted by the excellent fisheries, whaling, and the financial opportunities available at this crucial location for world trade, the cities of Punta Arenas and Puerto Montt being vital refuelling stations.

Dominion status achieved in 1923, jointly with Falkland Islands dependency, and the still viable whaling station at South Georgia.

Capital: Port Stanley (Governatorial), Punta Arenas (De Facto)
Population in 2000: 1,351,238
Administrative divisions: East Falkland, West Falkland, South Georgia, The Magallanes, Tierra del Fuego, Chiloe, Aisen, Rio Gallegos, Puerto Montt, South Shetland Islands (dependency of East Falkland)

Uninhabited Territories: The Antarctic Peninisula and Islands (administrated from East Falkland), The South Sandwich Islands (administrated from South Georgia)

Ethnic composition: Puerto Montt, Tierra del Fuego, Chiloe and Magallanes ("The Pacific Territories") are 35% Hispanic, 7% Native American and 59% "European" (The region was settled by Scottish, English, Scandinavian and New Zealand colonists in the early 20th century. The European category includes many people of mixed Hispanic or native and European descent who do not speak Spanish).

Rio Gallegos: 52% Hispanic, 44% "European", 4% Native American

East Falkland: 90% "European", 5% Hispanic, 3% St Helenan, 2% Native American.

West Falkland: 98% "European", 2% Native American

South Georgia: 93% "European", 3% "Asian", 2% Hispanic, 2% Native American

South Shetland: 100% "European"

Religion: Catholic 34% (Dioccese of Rio Gallegos), Anglican 19% (Dioccese of Stanley), Presbiterian 18%, Baptist 11%, Methodist 9%, Sevnth Day Adventist 3%, Animist 2%, Jewish 2%, other 2%

National Sports: Rugby, Football, Cricket

National Animal: Penguin

 

[Joseph Solis in Australia]

Dominion of Argentina and Uruguay - If British had attack Argentina in 1807 successfully, conquer the entire Argentina and Uruguay and British encouraged immigration to Argentina and Uruguay from England, Scotland and Ireland; I think Argentina and Uruguay will become Anglo-speaking nation (65% is Anglophone) and highly developed nation with GDP per capita in nominal terms of $40,000 by 2007.

 

[strangeland]

I´m a bit surprised nobody´s mentioned Malta so far: European, Christian (albeit Catholic), basically anglophone (though most people speak Maltese in daily life), and in the empire since the early 1800s.

also, IIRC, incorporating Malta into the UK proper was actually discussed at one point.

 

[Dan1988]

A Dominion of Argentina is the only one i can think of, Britain invades and takes Argentina during the Napoleonic Wars. Britons and other Europeans settle their with their also being a large Spanish speaking minority.

I expect its been discussed a few times on this board, There's also this http://www.britishargentina.com

I'm actually thinking of doing a British Argentina TL one of these days, but I'll tell you this - it will be a bit more realistic than britishargentina.com.

 

[Dan1988]

Another idea that could be used (which is another idea that I might eventually turn into a TL) is a Commonwealth (Dominion) of Puerto Rico. In this case, there are multiple PODs that could be used. Britain could seize it from Spain during the Napoleonic Wars (or earlier), for example, or Britain buys it from Spain around the late 19th century (then again, Cuba could also be purchased alongside Puerto Rico). These are only examples, however.

 

[Dutchie]

During the Napoleonic Wars while the Spanish were on the 'other' side, British forces from the West Indies invade and capture Cuba. Administratively it is combined with Jamiaca and run from Kingston - no sense in sending a new governor out to the islands.

Following the peace with Spain, Cuba is retained by Britain inexchange for Belize and eventually incorporated into Jamaica formally, creating the North Caribbean Territory, and eventually the Dominion of the North Caribbean.

Sugar/molasses/rum exports throughout the 19th century funds large-scale immigration, especially after tha abolition of slavery leads to an increase in indentured servitude of irish/scottish peasants. The landed class prefer the cooler highlands, and the RN enjoys tactical supremacy over the mouth of the Gulf of Mexico, meaning much military investment and basing of troops/ships in Cuba, keeping an eye on the Americans and Spanish in turns.

 

[Matthais Corvinus]

Kenya . . . under some kind of Britain loses WWI, becomes mean and nasty (and civil war-ish) at home, resulting in more people going to the colonies . . . which results in an SA or Rhodesian style regime in Kenya . . . The sixth commonwealth country of the nasty British Empire.

 

[perfectgeneral]

How about Iceland? Britain could have taken it off the Danes easily enough in the Napoleonic Wars at any point after the attack on Copenhagen, and simply held onto it at the end of the wars (maybe using the argument that as Iceland was technically a part of Norway and the Danes had lost Norway to Sweden, they therefore also lost their claim to Iceland...).

The population of Iceland was also only about 50,000 at the time and was already white and protestant, so it wouldn't take that much immigration and assimilation to make it largely an English-speaking country. I would have thought it would be easily doable, if the British decide they want to do it.

I can see the stategic sense in this (Faroes too), but is there much of a commercial sense in it? Fishing 'rights' weren't really an issue until much later. The political/international cost would be high for european colonialism.

 

[RPW@Cy]

I can see the stategic sense in this (Faroes too), but is there much of a commercial sense in it? Fishing 'rights' weren't really an issue until much later.

Doubtless this is the reason why it wasn't done OTL, to be honest. The main thing in it's favour is that doing it probably wouldn't be that big of a job - a couple of frigates and a battalion of so of infantry to secure the main population area around Reykjavik should probably do it. The main concern is getting Britain to want to do it - perhaps after Copenhagen a small force of French privateers could set up shop in Iceland and the RN decides to clear them out, or something.

The political/international cost would be high for european colonialism.

Not really - Britain held onto Malta and Heligoland after all (my Iceland scenario is pretty much exactly based on what happened to Heligoland OTL), and apparently came quite close to holding on to Sicily. The ownership of places outside mainland Europe was apparently very quickly decided at the Congress of Vienna - Castlereagh turned up with two lists, one of conquered territories Britain was keeping, and one of conquered territories Britain was handing back and (not quite in so few words, I'm sure) informed the Congress that if they thought they were going to have a debate about what was on which list they could take it up with the Royal Navy.

All that's then really needed is to find a way to get Iceland on the first list. I suspect frankly that in such a scenario the biggest difficulty for this challenge would be in getting Iceland to emerge as an independent dominion, rather than having it fully integrated into the United Kingdom like the Shetlands or Hebrides.

 

[Analytical Engine]

Thande mentioned in LTTW that Denmark was looking to sell its North Atlantic colonies to Britain a couple of times...

Maybe have Britain actually buy them (like what happened in LTTW).

The Faroe Islands would probably end up as either a county of the UK or as a northern version of the Isle of Man, Iceland would become a dominion eventually, and Greenland may be tacked onto *Canada...

 

[Flocculencio]

Or perhaps an enlarged Hong Kong? Not sure if it would qualify, though, as English probably wouldn't be the majority language...

Nah, he said it had to be a white settler dominion, else Singapore might well qualify.

Although, technically English was never the majority language in South Africa nor was it ever white majority- the only reason it gets included in the list of White Dominions is a hangover from the past where Negroes Didn't Count.

 

[Ferdinand Koenig]

incorporating Malta into the UK proper was actually discussed at one point.

It was actually done. For a brief period, basically during the 1960s & 70s, I believe, Malta had representation in the House of Commons.

 

[Tyr]

It was actually done. For a brief period, basically during the 1960s & 70s, I believe, Malta had representation in the House of Commons.

Really? Do you have anything on this?
I just remember one of the major Maltese parties wanted this and Britain said 'fine if you want' but the other major Maltese party ended up winning out. I'm no expert on Malta though.

 

[stevep]

Really? Do you have anything on this?
I just remember one of the major Maltese parties wanted this and Britain said 'fine if you want' but the other major Maltese party ended up winning out. I'm no expert on Malta though.

Leej

The version I remember reading was that it fell down because the British government of the time, think it was the 1st Wilson one, wasn't willing to give the Maltese the same social and welfare rights as the rest of British citizens. Which was a crying shame given how close the connection between the two people's.

Steve