AHC: Large, more creolized American states like South Louisiana or Acadiana

HumptyDumpty

Acadiana is interesting because it is (and was) it entails an entire population of mixed race ethnic groups that have amounts of cultural interchange between each other. I would be very interested to see if other US states could be just as mixed culturally or creolized as Acadiana is. What ideas do you guys have?

Could, for example, if colonization was driven not mostly by profit but rather to kick out political dissident and religious heretics out of the country similar to, in some ways, what Australia was then would we lead to a situation where there is a strong incentive to assimilate or merge the different cultures together whereby the settlers, given their lack of connection to the central government and necessity to cooperate with the natives (which were similar considerations that French settlers had to make).

Another could be, as another poster here on another thread suggested, that the PLC start a colony. Due to the relative precarity of the colony and the experience the PLC has treating opposing polities like Native American tribes as possible vassals, and thus people to negotiate with, rather than people to exterminate may lead to a situation where the PLC colony adopts and intermarries much of the native populations.

What do you guys think?
 

HumptyDumpty

altwere said:
Thank you and that would be quite interesting
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Yes. If I recall, there was a good write-up on this site from another poster about the possibility of this TL and they reasoned that, due to the structure of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, they likely would establish a colony in Texas and would be more able to navigate the patchwork of Native American tribes and allegiances than their more centralized contemporaries due to their political structure and overall culture. They would be more amenable to intermingling as a consequence.

Similarly, if the Americas turn into not a means of extracting New World resources but rather a dumping ground for religious heretics, political dissidents, and other undesirables than A. the proceeding settlements would lack the constant flow of colonial resources afforded by their central governments and B. would be more oriented around survival as well as establishing their unique, independent communities. The consequence is a greater reliance and parity between the Natives and the European settlers as well as a greater open-mindedness (motivated by survival reasons) to intermingle and assimilate, in some way, with the Native American population.
 
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SWS

SWS

What about a more successful Burgundian State with Lotharingian extent in the Rhineland and Holland? The Palatine-Swiss Dutch of New York, Pennsylvania, and South Carolina, who occupied Western buffer settlements IOTL, are the only migrant group I can think of who are comparable to the Louisiana Acadians in maintaining relative sui generis self-sufficiency and isolation from the Anglo administrations operating at Manhattan, Philadelphia, and Charlestown. Their agricultural "folk science" as prosperous small-farmers also enabled them to live more sedentarily than the restless, pushing, violence-prone Anglo-Saxon and Scotch-Irish, which did much to promote more peaceful and mutually-beneficial relations with the Iroquois and Cherokee, often resulting in inter-marriage and the generation of "Black Dutch". Negro Mennonites are also of interest. There were no Paxton Boys, Regulators, abusive soldiers, and conniving traders to be found among the swarthy, industrious, honest, rustic, if somewhat superstitious and submissive Germans. The career of Conrad Weiser is also testament to the diplomatic skill and temperament to be found among them.
 
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HumptyDumpty

SWS said:
What about a more successful Burgundian State with Lotharingian extent in the Rhineland and Holland? The Palatine-Swiss Dutch of New York, Pennsylvania, and South Carolina, who occupied Western buffer settlements IOTL, are the only migrant group I can think of who are comparable to the Louisiana Acadians in maintaining relative sui generis self-sufficiency and isolation from the Anglo administrations operating at Manhattan, Philadelphia, and Charlestown. Their agricultural "folk science" as prosperous small-farmers also enabled them to live more sedentarily than the restless, pushing, violence-prone Anglo-Saxon and Scotch-Irish, which did much to promote peaceful and mutually-beneficial relations with the Iroquois and Cherokee, often resulting in inter-marriage and the generation of "Black Dutch". Negro Mennonites are also of interest. There were no Paxton Boys, Regulators, abusive soldiers, and conniving traders to be found among the swarthy, industrious, honest, rustic, if somewhat superstitious and submissive Germans. The career of Conrad Weiser is also testament to the diplomatic skill and temperament to be found among them.
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I was familiar with the Palatines but not that well. Yes, that would be very interesting to see. At the very least, greater settlements would be interesting. A "composite" US composed of multiple different European settlements, cultural syncretism with Native populations, etc. would be interesting to see.

I would also like to know what would be necessary for these creolized populations to be a larger segment of the population? What would similarly be necessary for the English and Scots to be engaged in similar sorts of cultural intermingling and co-existence?

Could you expand upon the Black Mennonites?
 
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rfmcdonald

I think we could start by asking the question of whether or not English migration to the colonies might follow the slower dynamics of the French and the Dutch.
 

rfmcdonald

HumptyDumpty said:
Could you clarify?
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Enduring creolization between colonizers and the colonized is only really possible when the local rate of immigration by colonizers is slow enough not to overwhelm the populations of the colonized. If that happened, rather than having a new synthesis you just end up reproducing the culture of the colonizer in the new territory and assimilating the colonized into that framework.
 

HumptyDumpty

rfmcdonald said:
Enduring creolization between colonizers and the colonized is only really possible when the local rate of immigration by colonizers is slow enough not to overwhelm the populations of the colonized. If that happened, rather than having a new synthesis you just end up reproducing the culture of the colonizer in the new territory and assimilating the colonized into that framework.
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Well one idea is that the New World be solely a dumping ground for political dissidents, undesirables, persecuted religious minorities, etc. who are left to be by themselves. Sort of like Australia but with very little support by European powers. However, given the high costs of the trans-Atlantic voyage, I can't imagine why that would be the avenue as opposed to something far less costly for the English government. I don't know much about English history, or history in general, so maybe you have a better idea.
 
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