AHC/WI: Alternate Dreadnought Cruiser Development

Delta Force

Banned
I redid the two 1914 designs in SS2 adding a superfiring turret. That's doable but adding a TDS isn't going to happen, the designs are just too tight...

Springsharp might not handle reinforced bulkhead style TDS properly, as opposed to the 1920s and later style systems with multiple layers.
 
Any thoughts on dreadnought heavy cruisers and fast battleships, as posted earlier?

I would suspect that armoured cruisers would make their appearance again once the size of battlecruisers hit high enough. Historically, the large cruisers developed, in the Royal Navy, the US Navy and others, as means to create escort ships that would be able to maintain speed and station with the battlefleet in heavy seas.

There would be a gap in the battlecruisers and the 6in gun armed scout cruisers that could easily be filled by large cruisers mounting 7.5in-12in guns.
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
One can see the Panzerschiffe as the cruiser killer later with the Alaska class BC as the ultimate ship. But these ships were too big and too costly if one compared it with the battleships but less armed.
 

Delta Force

Banned
I would suspect that armoured cruisers would make their appearance again once the size of battlecruisers hit high enough. Historically, the large cruisers developed, in the Royal Navy, the US Navy and others, as means to create escort ships that would be able to maintain speed and station with the battlefleet in heavy seas.

There would be a gap in the battlecruisers and the 6in gun armed scout cruisers that could easily be filled by large cruisers mounting 7.5in-12in guns.

When do you think the larger heavy cruiser/armored cruiser type ships would have begun to emerge? It seems the battleship and battlecruiser merge into the fast battleship around 30,000 tons, providing a sizable tonnage gap for cruisers around 10,000 to 20,000 tons.

One can see the Panzerschiffe as the cruiser killer later with the Alaska class BC as the ultimate ship. But these ships were too big and too costly if one compared it with the battleships but less armed.

The Panzerschiffe were something of a smaller cruiser killer type design. A larger design could have higher speed, armor, and possibly armament. The Alaska class and Design 1047 seem to be dead end designs , because a treaty battleship wasn't much larger or more expensive. Perhaps they would have been competitive designs if 70,000 ton battleships had seen widespread service to create more of a tonnage gap.
 

NothingNow

Banned
When do you think the larger heavy cruiser/armored cruiser type ships would have begun to emerge? It seems the battleship and battlecruiser merge into the fast battleship around 30,000 tons, providing a sizable tonnage gap for cruisers around 10,000 to 20,000 tons.

It'd probably come two or three Battlecruiser classes in, after they've grown large and expensive enough for the gap to be noticeable.

Even then they'd likely only be a Hawkins-class equivalent at first, and probably wouldn't grow too much past 16,000 tonnes. Particularly given that there's much less pressure on escort/scout cruisers to grow much beyond what is needed to improve speed, seakeeping or speed, nor would they necessarily become obsolete as quickly as capital ships.

I mean as an example, look at how much change there was between the Gazelle in 1897 and the Arethusa-class in 1913, compared to Battleships or Armored Cruisers at the time. Yes, they're larger and faster (inevitable with the Turbine transition, and increases in speed elsewhere,) but they aren't particularly better armed, nor are they a complete change in design orthodoxy.
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
SMS Gazelle was a small cruiser of about 3.000 t max weight, a speed of 20 kn and an armament of 10 10,5 cm guns. She was built as scout cruiser and colonial cruiser. HMS Arethusa was similarily a scout cruiser but armed with 2 15,2 cm and 6 10,2 cm guns. She was 28 kn fast.

That's true, for these scouting cruisers you have little developement. But one should see the evolution of the light cruisers better, if one compares the classes of the light cruisers from 1900 to 1923:

Bremen class: 3.800 t max, 23,3 kn, 10 10,5 cm (1915 6), 2 15 cm (since 1915)
Leipzig slightly bigger and with the 1915 armament
Stettin class slightly bigger and faster
Dresden class 4.200 t
Kolberg class 4.900 t and 12 10,5 cm gun (later 6 15 cm)
Magdeburg class 5.700 t, 28 kn and 12 10,5 cm gun (later 7 15 cm)
Karlsruhe class 6.200 t, 29 kn, 12 10,5 cm guns
Pillau class 5.250 t, 27 kn, 8 15 cm guns
Graudenz class 6.400 t, 28 kn and 12 10,5 cm guns (later 7 15 cm)
Wiesbaden class 5.200 t, 28 kn, 8 15 cm guns
(Brummer class 5.900 t, 28 kn, 4 15 cm guns mine laying cruiser)
Königsberg II class 7.125 t, 28 kn, 8 15 cm guns
Köln II class 7.500 t, 8 15 cm, 29 kn
Emden III class as planned: 7.100 t, 29 kn, 8 15 cm guns in twin turrets

This means an evolution of these ships as well.
 

NothingNow

Banned
This means an evolution of these ships as well.

Not too much of one. We're still talking 10-15,000 tonnes displacement, a 28-30k top speed at first, and a few 7.5-8" guns by the end of WW1 if the scale of growth is comparable.

Which is pretty much getting a Hawkins-class sized vessel, possibly with fully enclosed turrets, out of what's pretty much a scout cruiser scaled up to protected cruiser sizes.
 
Nature (and navies) abhore a vacuum. Absent the WNT, the size of capital ships (BBs, BCs and the merged "fast battleships") would have increased into the 50,000-60,000 ton range by the late 1920's, with gun calibres up to 18' or even 20' being introduced. These ships would be incredibly expensive so fewer of them would built. Given the fact that existing cruisers were essentially lightly-protected scouts displacing 5-7000 tons, the major naval powers might believe they have need for reasonably powerful intermediate "cruisers" between the size of super-dreadnoughts and scout cruisers for commerce raiding, hunting down commerce raiders, and patrolling colonial seas. Just as with the WNT "treaty cruisers", navies would want these intermediate ships to be sufficiently large and powerful that they could conceivably substitute for battleships or act as part of the fast wing of a battlefleet. In such a world, I could see all major navies (and perhaps especially the smaller ones like France, Italy, and Germany) build intermediate-sized ships equivalent in concept, if not specifics, to the American Alaskas, or a vastly improved German "panzerschiffe" as the new "armored cruiser" or "heavy cruiser" - ships in the 25-35,000 ton range, extremely fast, reasonably well protected, and armed with six to nine 11 to 14 inch guns... with the only other cruiser's being small and essentially unarmored scout cruisers in the 5,000-7,000 range
 
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Nature (and navies) abhore a vacuum. Absent the WNT, the size of capital ships (BBs, BCs and the merged "fast battleships") would have increased into the 50,000-60,000 ton range by the late 1920's, with gun calibres up to 18' or even 20' being introduced. These ships would be incredibly expensive so fewer of them would built. Given the fact that existing cruisers were essentially lightly-protected scouts displacing 5-7000 tons, the major naval powers might believe they have need for reasonably powerful intermediate "cruisers" between the size of super-dreadnoughts and scout cruisers for commerce raiding, hunting down commerce raiders, and patrolling colonial seas. Just as with the WNT "treaty cruisers", navies would want these intermediate ships to be sufficiently large and powerful that they could conceivably substitute for battleships or act as part of the fast wing of a battlefleet. In such a world, I could see all major navies (and perhaps especially the smaller ones like France, Italy, and Germany) build intermediate-sized ships equivalent in concept, if not specifics, to the American Alaskas, or a vastly improved German "panzerschiffe" as the new "armored cruiser" or "heavy cruiser" - ships in the 25-35,000 ton range, extremely fast, reasonably well protected, and armed with six to nine 11 to 14 inch guns... with the only other cruiser's being small and essentially unarmored scout cruisers in the 5,000-7,000 range

Very interesting. I think I'll try and work up some SS stats for a few of these...
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/panzerschiffe/kreuzerp1/index.html

An improved Panzerschiff planned by the Kriegsmarine.

Kamerun class, Germany Colonial Battlecruiser laid down 1918

Displacement:
24.335 t light; 25.606 t standard; 27.105 t normal; 28.304 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
672,57 ft / 672,57 ft x 89,57 ft x 26,25 ft (normal load)
205,00 m / 205,00 m x 27,30 m x 8,00 m

Armament:
8 - 12,01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865,70lbs / 392,68kg shells, 1908 Model
Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
12 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1906 Model
Quick firing guns in casemate mounts
on side, evenly spread
8 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 37,48lbs / 17,00kg shells, 1906 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships
8 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,33lbs / 0,15kg shells, 1918 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 8.464 lbs / 3.839 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
8 - 19,7" / 500 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5,91" / 150 mm 437,17 ft / 133,25 m 11,38 ft / 3,47 m
Ends: 3,15" / 80 mm 235,37 ft / 71,74 m 11,38 ft / 3,47 m
Upper: 1,97" / 50 mm 437,17 ft / 133,25 m 8,01 ft / 2,44 m
Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1,97" / 50 mm 437,17 ft / 133,25 m 24,74 ft / 7,54 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 10,6" / 270 mm 8,66" / 220 mm -
3rd: 1,97" / 50 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 94.738 shp / 70.675 Kw = 28,00 kts
Range 6.000nm at 14,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.698 tons

Complement:
1.056 - 1.373

Cost:
£4,434 million / $17,736 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1.056 tons, 3,9%
Armour: 8.484 tons, 31,3%
- Belts: 1.873 tons, 6,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 788 tons, 2,9%
- Armament: 4.066 tons, 15,0%
- Armour Deck: 1.604 tons, 5,9%
- Conning Tower: 153 tons, 0,6%
Machinery: 3.418 tons, 12,6%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 10.878 tons, 40,1%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.770 tons, 10,2%
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1,8%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
38.559 lbs / 17.490 Kg = 44,5 x 12,0 " / 305 mm shells or 5,9 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,01
Metacentric height 4,3 ft / 1,3 m
Roll period: 18,1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,65
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1,04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low forecastle, rise aft of midbreak
Block coefficient: 0,600
Length to Beam Ratio: 7,51 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 25,93 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 53 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,46 ft / 8,37 m
- Forecastle (20%): 17,49 ft / 5,33 m (32,81 ft / 10,00 m aft of break)
- Mid (50%): 17,49 ft / 5,33 m (26,25 ft / 8,00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (15%): 17,49 ft / 5,33 m
- Stern: 17,49 ft / 5,33 m
- Average freeboard: 22,12 ft / 6,74 m
Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,9%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 170,9%
Waterplane Area: 44.059 Square feet or 4.093 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 174 lbs/sq ft or 850 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,19
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

A version for my Central powers- USA swap TL.
 
Does Springtime list 'Coles/Ericsson' turrets as a choice? Since both are obsolete and technological deadends by the 1880s and it would be incorrect to equate modern turrets with those of Coles and of Ericsson.
On my version it lists Turret (full) which reads out a Coles/Ericsson Turret when generating a report, and Turret & Barbette as two of several options

My guess is that he pressed Turret (full) by accident. Changing it to Turret & Barbette will probably save weight
 

Tyr Anazasi

Banned
On my version it lists Turret (full) which reads out a Coles/Ericsson Turret when generating a report, and Turret & Barbette as two of several options

My guess is that he pressed Turret (full) by accident. Changing it to Turret & Barbette will probably save weight

Thanks for the tip!
 

Delta Force

Banned
I only described the super cruisers and cruiser killers on this forum, but I never posted them. Here they are.

1925 Super Cruiser (8 Inch)

1925 Super Cruiser (8 Inch), Test Super Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
19,099 t light; 20,000 t standard; 21,950 t normal; 23,509 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(664.96 ft / 656.17 ft) x 85.30 ft x (24.61 / 25.94 ft)
(202.68 m / 200.00 m) x 26.00 m x (7.50 / 7.91 m)

Armament:
12 - 7.99" / 203 mm 50.0 cal guns - 260.15lbs / 118.00kg shells, 144 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
3 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 2.05lbs / 0.93kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 3,789 lbs / 1,719 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 142,000 shp / 105,932 Kw = 33.40 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,509 tons

Complement:
901 - 1,172

Cost:
£5.648 million / $22.592 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 989 tons, 4.5 %
- Guns: 989 tons, 4.5 %
Armour: 5,444 tons, 24.8 %
- Belts: 1,760 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 713 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 814 tons, 3.7 %
- Armour Deck: 2,057 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Towers: 100 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,610 tons, 21.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,005 tons, 36.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,851 tons, 13.0 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,833 lbs / 15,347 Kg = 132.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 4.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 6.1 ft / 1.9 m
Roll period: 14.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.558 / 0.567
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.69 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Average freeboard: 26.37 ft / 8.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 221.3 %
Waterplane Area: 40,973 Square feet or 3,807 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 154 lbs/sq ft or 751 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.06
- Longitudinal: 1.93
- Overall: 1.13
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Zone of immunity against 8" shells: 16,600 yards to 26,400 yards.

Miscellaneous Weight:
50 tons above deck is for two seaplanes and their equipment.
1925 Super Cruiser (9.2 Inch)

1925 Super Cruiser (9.2 Inch), Test Super Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
18,983 t light; 20,000 t standard; 21,950 t normal; 23,509 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(664.96 ft / 656.17 ft) x 85.30 ft x (24.61 / 25.94 ft)
(202.68 m / 200.00 m) x 26.00 m x (7.50 / 7.91 m)

Armament:
12 - 9.21" / 234 mm 50.0 cal guns - 380.08lbs / 172.40kg shells, 144 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
3 x Quad mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 2.05lbs / 0.93kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5,229 lbs / 2,372 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 426.51 ft / 130.00 m 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 142,000 shp / 105,932 Kw = 33.40 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,509 tons

Complement:
901 - 1,172

Cost:
£6.219 million / $24.876 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,411 tons, 6.4 %
- Guns: 1,411 tons, 6.4 %
Armour: 5,567 tons, 25.4 %
- Belts: 1,760 tons, 8.0 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 713 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 938 tons, 4.3 %
- Armour Deck: 2,057 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Towers: 100 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,610 tons, 21.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,345 tons, 33.5 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,966 tons, 13.5 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
30,885 lbs / 14,009 Kg = 79.0 x 9.2 " / 234 mm shells or 4.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 5.9 ft / 1.8 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.42
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.558 / 0.567
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.69 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.66 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 61 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 32.81 ft / 10.00 m, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 28.71 ft / 8.75 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m, 24.61 ft / 7.50 m
- Average freeboard: 26.37 ft / 8.04 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 221.3 %
Waterplane Area: 40,973 Square feet or 3,807 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 146 lbs/sq ft or 714 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.94
- Longitudinal: 1.76
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Zone of immunity against 8" shells: 16,600 yards to 26,400 yards.

Miscellaneous Weight:
50 tons above deck is for two seaplanes and their equipment.
1925 Super Cruiser (11 Inch)

1925 Super Cruiser (11 Inch), Test Super Cruiser laid down 1925

Displacement:
20,257 t light; 21,300 t standard; 23,308 t normal; 24,915 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(697.55 ft / 688.98 ft) x 85.30 ft x (24.61 / 25.91 ft)
(212.61 m / 210.00 m) x 26.00 m x (7.50 / 7.90 m)

Armament:
9 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 727.53lbs / 330.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 2.05lbs / 0.93kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 7,215 lbs / 3,273 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 446.19 ft / 136.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 446.19 ft / 136.00 m 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 85.30 ft / 26.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 139,000 shp / 103,694 Kw = 33.05 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,616 tons

Complement:
943 - 1,226

Cost:
£6.798 million / $27.191 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,470 tons, 6.3 %
- Guns: 1,470 tons, 6.3 %
Armour: 5,871 tons, 25.2 %
- Belts: 1,832 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 746 tons, 3.2 %
- Armament: 1,016 tons, 4.4 %
- Armour Deck: 2,173 tons, 9.3 %
- Conning Towers: 104 tons, 0.4 %
Machinery: 4,513 tons, 19.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,353 tons, 35.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,052 tons, 13.1 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.2 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
32,177 lbs / 14,595 Kg = 48.0 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 4.1 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
Roll period: 15.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.564 / 0.573
Length to Beam Ratio: 8.08 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.25 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.99 ft / 9.75 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Average freeboard: 25.55 ft / 7.79 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 92.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 216.2 %
Waterplane Area: 43,284 Square feet or 4,021 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 755 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.95
- Longitudinal: 1.60
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Zone of immunity against 8" shells: 16,600 yards to 26,400 yards.

Miscellaneous Weight:
50 tons above deck is for two seaplanes and their equipment.
1925 Cruiser Killer (11 Inch)

1925 Cruiser Killer (11 Inch), Test Cruiser Killer laid down 1925

Displacement:
16,658 t light; 17,500 t standard; 19,294 t normal; 20,729 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(631.93 ft / 623.36 ft) x 78.74 ft x (24.61 / 26.00 ft)
(192.61 m / 190.00 m) x 24.00 m x (7.50 / 7.93 m)

Armament:
6 - 11.02" / 280 mm 50.0 cal guns - 727.53lbs / 330.00kg shells, 100 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1925 Model
2 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
12 - 4.72" / 120 mm 50.0 cal guns - 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 500 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1925 Model
6 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 2.05lbs / 0.93kg shells, 2,000 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1925 Model
8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 5,033 lbs / 2,283 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 406.82 ft / 124.00 m 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
1.57" / 40 mm 406.82 ft / 124.00 m 28.71 ft / 8.75 m
Beam between torpedo bulkheads 78.74 ft / 24.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 5.91" / 150 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 5.91" / 150 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 2.95" / 75 mm 3.94" / 100 mm
3rd: 0.98" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - multiple decks:
For and Aft decks: 2.95" / 75 mm
Forecastle: 0.00" / 0 mm Quarter deck: 2.95" / 75 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 2.95" / 75 mm, Aft 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 128,000 shp / 95,488 Kw = 33.05 kts
Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,230 tons

Complement:
818 - 1,064

Cost:
£5.499 million / $21.998 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,041 tons, 5.4 %
- Guns: 1,041 tons, 5.4 %
Armour: 4,926 tons, 25.5 %
- Belts: 1,671 tons, 8.7 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 680 tons, 3.5 %
- Armament: 677 tons, 3.5 %
- Armour Deck: 1,806 tons, 9.4 %
- Conning Towers: 92 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 4,156 tons, 21.5 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,486 tons, 33.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,635 tons, 13.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 0.3 %
- On freeboard deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
26,352 lbs / 11,953 Kg = 39.3 x 11.0 " / 280 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
Metacentric height 5.3 ft / 1.6 m
Roll period: 14.4 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a normal bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.559 / 0.568
Length to Beam Ratio: 7.92 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 28.84 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 31.99 ft / 9.75 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m, 23.79 ft / 7.25 m
- Average freeboard: 25.55 ft / 7.79 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 95.0 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 207.2 %
Waterplane Area: 35,976 Square feet or 3,342 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 684 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Zone of immunity against 8" shells: 16,600 yards to 26,400 yards.

Miscellaneous Weight:
50 tons above deck is for two seaplanes and their equipment.
 
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