An anglofied India?

Just a thought, is it plausable to have an anglofied India with "brown Englishmen" (a historicaly used term) as was envisioned by some?

If it is plausable what would need to be done to change history in this way, without changing history up to say the 1770's too much?
 
Well, total assimilation is not possible because of India's great cultural hertiage and an monopoly of Hinduism as the main culture of one whole sub-continent.

It's more likely that in case of a British India for several hundred years, a mixture would emerge, quite like some Indians have done in Great Britain.

So it would be a mixed culture, something new, perhaps Anglindish or such a name. :D
 

Ak-84

Banned
Is'nt that what happened historically? With the English language and legal system as well as westminister style democracy being embraced by Indians.
 
Is'nt that what happened historically? With the English language and legal system as well as westminister style democracy being embraced by Indians.

Mainly with the upper classes, yes, but the majority of the population is still Indian.
 
Mainly with the upper classes, yes, but the majority of the population is still Indian.

And thus more time under British rule would have be needed to extand the British culture even more. Eventually also a different style of politics by Britain itself who wasn't so concerned about assimilation rather than making a good share of profit. France to the contrary..
 
Just a thought, is it plausable to have an anglofied India with "brown Englishmen" (a historicaly used term) as was envisioned by some?

If it is plausable what would need to be done to change history in this way, without changing history up to say the 1770's too much?

Beyond being a vile and racist suggestion, no it's not possible. Even if for some reason the diverse cultures of India wished to give up being themselves and adopt an alien culture, or the British possessed the means to force this, just the geography, climate, and available food would prohibit it.
 

Thande

Donor
Nah. Stirling had it right. Even if you could get a massive number of British people in India (as in Peshawar Lancers, due to a cataclysm, and have the seat of power for the Empire be there) the sheer numerical disparity, plus the fact that India, like China, has a talent for assimilating and incorporating conquerors' culture, precludes it. You'd have some British cultural influence, but heck, you have that in OTL.
 
Yeah, I really don't see how one could get more British culture, language, and laws involved in India.

Hell, my friends and I were watching a Bollywood film recently, one of the most popular in the country, according to my friend who found it for us, and almost half the dialog was in English.
 

Ak-84

Banned
Mainly with the upper classes, yes, but the majority of the population is still Indian.

English is understood pretty much universally all over the old British Raj, not just India.
The legal system is common law still.
 
Actually I am very glad that it didn't happen.

One of my favourite arguments for tolerance next to a great variety of women is food.

Indish food.. mmh.. had it again this evening. Yummy yummy!
 
Anglofied India is simple. First, British taught the all Indians no matter how untouchable (poor) there are so that Indians are 100% literate. Second, British industrialise India so that India can compete to other nations especially developed nations. Third, British mixed the Anglican Church to Hinduism or Sikhism.

If India had Anglofied, I think India now is a upper-middle income country IF caste had abolished by British.
 
Anglofied India is simple. First, British taught the all Indians no matter how untouchable (poor) there are so that Indians are 100% literate. Second, British industrialise India so that India can compete to other nations especially developed nations. Third, British mixed the Anglican Church to Hinduism or Sikhism.

If India had Anglofied, I think India now is a upper-middle income country IF caste had abolished by British.

The British state was not that good at making British people in Britain literate until well into the late 19th century.

People making money out of Britain's industrial revolution persuaded the government to actively undermine Indian competition in OTL and it is not clear how this could be changed.
 
I did a thread a while ago (I think it was called 'Deeper Anglicisation of the British Empire' or something like that) which was based on an ATL where the British Empire had a policy of deeper assimilation (at least of the native elites) like France had in Africa.

I thin there are various problems with regard to the notion of India being heavily Anglicised. First, the population is too large. I'm not sure what the population of India was in the 19th century but it would still have been high. In order to have 'intensive assimilation programs' or whatever you would need a small native population to make the efford plausible and affordable.

Also the strong Hindu culture would be a barrier. For instance (contrary to what many others think) I personally believe that if there was ever a chance of the British fully assimilating a colony it would be somewhere in Africa. The more 'porous' and 'pliable' (I use those words because I can't really think of a better way to put it) nature of African tribal culture would make it easier for a coloniser that was very determined to assimilate them (with a lot of effort). It would be harder to remove the much more solid Hindu culture from India.
 
Guys

How about that the EIC and later the British government don't discourage Christian evangelism and as a result there are large scale conversions from the lower castes and untouchables. Coupled with a continuation of the more flexible attitude to race by the earlier British rulers in the region.

As a result there is a significant element in India that identifies strongly with Britain, possibly aided by a stronger desire in the British leadership to win over the locals. The event that led to the mutiny, the declining economic and social status of the traditional Indian military castes, will still occur and probably be heightened by the presence of a considerable number of anglicised Indians. Especially as those, many from traditional low castes, increasingly take over roles in local government.

As such those populations will suffer heavily in the initial massacres by the rebels but their loyalty will help defeat the mutiny earlier, meaning their seen as a valuable bulwark against disloyal elements in the population. This means that they will gain further support from the authorities while the defeat of the traditional power elements will discredit them.

You get the steady accumulation of a growing proportion of the Indian population that identify themselves as British. Since they have access to better education and social links with the ruling elite they also have a growing prominence in the Indian economy, which also develops more as the influence of the 'Anglo-Indians' helps to modernise. Possibly also more influence in Britain with more Indian MPs in parliament, helping to represent their old as well as their new homelands.

As such you might find a fairly deeply divided India with a significant element sticking to traditional viewpoints and lifestyles, which however leave them increasingly sidelined. The new would be movers and shakers follow the more Anglo-Indian line in part because that has been shown as the best way of obtaining power and influence in the Raj. Probably richer overall and with a weaker caste system apart from those who still cling to it. As such less of a clear identity and maybe prone to internal clashes. However possibly as a result other conflicts are less prevalent. For instance religious conflicts might be muted because the Anglo-India/Nativist split divides all of those groups.

How this India relates to itself and Britain and the rest of the empire is difficult to tell. Very likely some clashes and differences at some point but hopefully better relations overall.

Steve
 
Just a thought, is it plausable to have an anglofied India with "brown Englishmen" (a historicaly used term) as was envisioned by some?

If it is plausable what would need to be done to change history in this way, without changing history up to say the 1770's too much?

It pretty much happened among the upper and middle classes- even today they still function very much like a brown version of Edwardian England :D

Impossible to do it among the masses though.
 
What if the English, sensing that the US will be a competitor-nation, chooses not to permit emigration of the Irish to the New World, and instead channels much of the 'excess population' caused by the potato famine into India along with many of the cpnvicts sent off to Australia? Perhaps not enitrely English (exactly), but the migrants would probably settle on English as a language of commerce. If the Irish are given favorable treatment, their families might be relatively large and within a generation they might form the basis of an anglo-leaning group.
 
What if the English, sensing that the US will be a competitor-nation, chooses not to permit emigration of the Irish to the New World, and instead channels much of the 'excess population' caused by the potato famine into India along with many of the cpnvicts sent off to Australia? Perhaps not enitrely English (exactly), but the migrants would probably settle on English as a language of commerce. If the Irish are given favorable treatment, their families might be relatively large and within a generation they might form the basis of an anglo-leaning group.

Norman! You're back!
 
What if the English, sensing that the US will be a competitor-nation, chooses not to permit emigration of the Irish to the New World, and instead channels much of the 'excess population' caused by the potato famine into India along with many of the cpnvicts sent off to Australia? Perhaps not enitrely English (exactly), but the migrants would probably settle on English as a language of commerce. If the Irish are given favorable treatment, their families might be relatively large and within a generation they might form the basis of an anglo-leaning group.

You could have Bollywood with bagpipes...
 
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