Anglo-Dutch union/connection
- Thread starter Sean Swaby
- Start date
Note the source of the europe maps (thus far) is the WHKMLA Historical Atlas (Europe 1500-1815) at:
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/haindex.html
the source of the North America map is Matthew White's Historical Atlas of the 20th Century (North American border changes):
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/nameric1.htm
Map of Europe 1812
http://www.zum.de/whkmla/histatlas/haindex.html
the source of the North America map is Matthew White's Historical Atlas of the 20th Century (North American border changes):
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/nameric1.htm
Map of Europe 1812
UPA Flag (the old union jack showing the former colonial power (and current ally by the way) and 3 stripes for the 3 colonies that originally formed the UPA).
Well here is the first continuation. I hope this ellicits much more responses. Any contributing thoughts or comments?
1815- At the Congress of Vienna the Quadruple Alliance between Russia, Prussia, Britain and the Netherlands and Austria was renewed and they pledged themselves to maintain by force, for 20 years, the arrangements reached at Paris and Vienna. At the same Congress, Russia, Prussia and Austria signed the Holy Alliance, which was eventually signed by every other nation in Europe (except the Pope and the Sultan of Turkey), mainly to please Tsar Alexander, who concocted it out a sense of great religious revival. The Holy Alliance though, had no real backbone to it and was essentially meaningless.
Russians land in Hawai’i and sign a trade treaty with King Kamehameha I. This is their second successful trade treaty in the Pacific, the first being with Japan in 1804.
1816- In London, a new act was passed by both the Parliament and the States-General (which had not yet returned to the Hague in the Netherlands). This was the Act of Union of 1816, which formally and totally united the Netherlands with the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Henceforth the country would officially be titled the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland and the Netherlands. This Act of Union, however was somewhat different from the previous Acts of Unions with Scotland and Ireland. Here the States-General, instead of dissolving itself, would be retained, but instead agreed to hand over in perpetuity certain powers that it had hitherto exercised. This was agreed to by the Parliament because of the long history of the States-General. Parliament was of course increased in size with the addition of Dutch members of parliament who were elected directly from the Netherlands (though a few were elected by the States-General). Parliament of course, had supreme authority over even the States-General now, but with the retention of the States-General, many Scottish and Irish MPs began to call for the restitution of the parliaments in Scotland and Ireland under similar conditions. King George I himself, approved of the idea and, in late 1816, a new Act came into effect: the Ireland and Scotland Governments Act. This Act allowed for a new Scottish Assembly and an Irish Assembly/Dail (locally called the “Dail”), which was to have some of the powers of the States-General of Netherlands. The Act also provided for the new Welsh Council (despite the fact that Wales was not in the title of the Act), which would have more limited powers than the Assembly, Dail or Estates-General. Generally all of these “sub-parliaments” or local parliaments had the power to raise local taxes (which were separated from (union) government taxes- although taxes remained the same as before these local governments, just that instead the taxes were now split), oversee local education, roads (railways were left entirely to the Parliament which was also responsible for roads), and local courts and constabularies. The Acts were widely popular in Ireland and the Netherlands and were generally well greeted by the Scots (some of whom didn’t care) and the Welsh seemed not to notice.
This union of the governments Britain (and Ireland) with the Netherlands mirrored the union of the (English/British) East India Company (officially “The United Company of Merchants of England Trading to the East Indies”) (EEIC) with the Dutch East India Company/Verenigde Oostindische Compagnie (VOC) to create the “East India Companie” (EIC in English or OiC in Dutch) in 1803 during the Napoleonic wars. This union of the two formerly rival East India Companies was accompanied by the “tidying up” of the administration of the various territories in the East ruled the two former companies. Firstly Cape Province, formerly Dutch, was placed under UK government control; Secondly all other territories were placed under the administration of two new executive branches in the company (West and East). Under the Western branch of administration, everything north and west of (including) the Adaman and Nicobar Islands was placed under the branch administering the “Western holdings” of the “Companie”. Everything to the east and south was placed under the branch of the “Eastern holdings”. Many of the administrators were the same, previous Dutch or British administrators, but now Ceylon fell under the rule of the administrators in India and the administrators of Singapore (which was to be founded by the Companie in1819), the Straits Settlements, Malaya, Sarawak and North Borneo, were subordinated to the administration in Batavia on Java. The placement of new administrators from Britain into Batavia also ensured a tempering of Dutch rule of the East Indies and soon the East Indies began to resemble India in having areas directly under Companie rule and “princely states” which were run by princes allied to or subordinate to the Companie.
1817-1819- The “new” United Kingdom fights the last Maratha War in India and extend British rule over most of the subcontinent, except for Punjab, Kashmir and Sind.
In Europe, Serbia gains autonomy with Russia’s backing after a struggle lasting from 1804-1817. The first king is Obrenevic.
1818- Congress of Aix-la-Chapelle. Alsace is given independence (and joined the German Confederation) as was basically agreed to under provisions of the Treaty of Paris and Congress of Vienna. A Bavarian prince, Karl Theodore Maximilian August (brother of Ludwig who would become Bavarian king in 1825) was chosen to become the new Prince of Alsace (Alsace being made into a Principality). Lorraine was duly returned to France as the occupation by the allies ended. France rejoined the family of nations by signing up to the new Quintuple Alliance (meanwhile the Quadruple Alliance was secretly renewed as a safeguard against French resurgence).
Across the seas, Russia was enjoying the fruits of its labour as it was now trading with Hawai’i and Japan. In North America, the USA and UPA were busy settling their new territories. In the USA, Virginia, Maryland and Delaware had become alarmed in 1804 at the fact that they were now only 3 slave states out of the 10 states in the union and insisted that of all new states admitted to the union ½ must allow slavery and so Congress in Philadelphia came up with the Mason-Dixon Resolution whereby all new states that were entirely south of the Mason-Dixon Line (as it was drawn straight across the new territory obtained from the ex-colony of Louisiana) would be slave states. By 1810, two new states had been admitted: Kentucky (from Virginia’s lands south of the Ohio) and Transohio (OTL Ohio). Three new territories were formed: Michigan, Indian territory and Mississippi territory (OTL Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota). The rest was unorganised territory. In the UPA, the new province of Franklin (in honour of Ben Franklin who helped come up with the Albany Plan upon which the UPA constitution was based) was formed (from OTL Tennessee which was North Carolinian territory). Four territories were organised: North Mississippi territory, South Mississippi territory, Orleans territory and Indian territory.
Meanwhile in Germany, Austria remained supreme and with Metternich at her helm, continued to keep the German states divided (and thus easily influenced) by restricting the subjects that could be discussed in the various German parliaments and universities (and placing inspectors in the universities to watch over radical students). Prussia was busy undergoing administrative reform as it incorporated its new Rhenish provinces, as well as the new Saxon lands it was able to obtain in the Congress of Vienna (including the important cities of Leipzig and Dresden which remained Saxon in OTL).
1819- In North America, the UPA manages to find a price for Florida, which is sold to it, by Spain. The new territory is split into East and West Florida. Spain uses the money to fund mercenaries and its own soldiers’ campaigns against its more important South American and Central American colonies.
In the East Indies, Singapore is founded as a naval base and trading post.
In London, Victoria, daughter of Edward (the brother of King George I) is born, while later in the year King Kamehameha II of Hawai’i visits London sparking interest in Hawai’i. The Hawaiian King dies that year in London. Also in Europe the Russians propose intervention in the Spanish colonies in the Americas to reassert the Spanish king’s authority. Only France accepts the proposal and in late 1819 a Franco-Russian task force (with German mercenaries) sets out for the New World.
1820- A revolution in Spain forces King Ferdinand VII to revive the more democratic constitution of 1812.
The Persian Gulf states sign a peace treaty with the UK, which ends piracy in the Gulf and leads to British supremacy in the region for a long time to come. In the Pacific the UK also signs a trade treaty with Hawai’i.
1821-Revolutions similar to the Spanish one break out in Naples, Piedmont and Portugal. Austria sends in her army to suppress the revolutions in Italy, while in Portugal, the British Army (under the Dutch Marshall Colijn, who replaced Marshall Beresford in 1815) leaves and in effect stops governing the country. King John VI of Portugal finally returns from Brazil, leaving his son Dom Pedro as regent of the colony.
In the Ottoman Empire, the Greeks revolt against the Turks. The revolt starts, not in Greece, but in Moldavia and Wallachia by the Philike Hetaireia (A Greek nationalist secret society) headed by Prince Ypsilanti (former Russian Imperial Guard). As hoped, the Rumanians were inspired by the uprising and rose in revolt themselves. Almost immediately new uprisings occurred in the Morea (by the Greeks) and in Albania. The barbarity of the war (on both sides, but the Europeans focused on Turkish atrocities against the Greeks and Rumanians), persuades Tsar Alexander I (the fact that Prince Ypsilanti headed the revolt and that the Rumanians revolted too helped persuade him) into declaring war on Turkey and invading Moldavia and Wallachia and recognizing the Greek government of Count Capodistrias.
1822- The Duke of Wellington becomes Premier of the UK and recognizes the Greek government a year later.
1823- The UK and France having recognized the Greek government, assemble a joint Fleet in the Mediterranean with the Russians and send it towards the Aegean. The Fleet passes through the Aegean and destroys a Turkish Fleet off Gallipoli and anchors off Constantinople. With an Allied fleet outside his capital city and the Russians in occupation of Moldavia and Wallachia and headed towards Bulgaria and Greece, the Sultan capitulates and signs the Treaty of Bucharest. The Treaty guarantees Serbian, Greek and Moldavian and Wallachian autonomy under Turkish suzreignty.
Having settled the affair of the Balkans, and emboldened by it, France invades Spain to restore King Ferdinand VII’s authority and abolish the constitution. Meanwhile, in the Americas, the French, Russians, German mercenaries and Spanish were not having grand success against the South and Central American rebels. They had returned Spanish authority to Uruguay and Central America, but that was about it.
1824- King Louis XVIII of France dies and is succeeded by his son, Louis(-Ferdinand) who becomes Louis XIX. Louis XIX was born in 1779 to his father, Louis XVIII and his mother Maria Josephine. His father had taught him that royal power could now only be reconciled, partly by kingly prudence and partly by acceptance of parliamentary rules, with the new forces of liberalism, nationalism and the interests of the bourgeoisie. Louis XVIII had chosen capable ministers who restored French prestige and allowed for economic recovery and financial stability. Louis XIX followed his father and had such men as Baron Louis, Guizot, Baron Pasquier, Duc Decazes, Tallyrand, Vicomte de Martignac and Duc de Richelieu in his government (at various times).
1824-26- First Burmese War fought by the British and extends British control over into Burma.
1825- The French, Russians and German mercenaries return home from the Americas, the mission largely a failure. Only Uruguay remained Spanish (apart from Cuba and Puerto Rico) and this was largely due to Portuguese aid from Dom Pedro in Brazil. The UK now recognizes the independent former Spanish colonies.
In southeast Asia, western New Guinea is annexed by the Companie (it would be transferred to the colony of Western Australia in 1833). In Australia the colony of Van Diemen’s Land (Tasmania) is founded.
1825-26- Persian-Russian War. Russia takes Tabriz from Persia and resoundly defeats the Persians, annexing more land in the Caucasus.
1825-1827- Turkey and Greece go to war again and the Greeks hold out heroically (in the eyes of Europe) until in 1827, Russia, France and the UK intervene once again. In the Treaty of Constantinople that ended the war (and the 1827 Russo-Turkish war), Greece attained full independence with Count Capodistrias becoming the first King of Greece. Greece’s borders to the north were expanded and Russia gained territory in Asia from Turkey.
1826-1827- The UK intervenes in Portugal to preserve the constitutional government.
1828- small Javanese revolt against the EIC/OiC that lasts only for the year.
1829- Suttee (widow burning) made illegal in India.
1830- France invades Algeria and successfully establishes a colony on the north African coast. In the Pacific, Malietoa Vaiinupo becomes King of Samoa. In Europe a Polish revolt breaks out and is crushed by Austria, Prussia and Russia.
1831- The UK abolishes slavery in the British Empire. Immediately relations with the UPA under President-General Andrew Jackson deteriorate somewhat. Other European powers followed suit over the next 50 years: France would follow this lead in 1848, Argentina in 1850 and Portugal between 1858 and 1874.
1832-1849- Arab resistance to the French occupation of Algeria.
1832- the First Reform Bill is passed in Parliament (applicable to the entire United Kingdom or Verendige Konikrijk (in Dutch)) giving more men the vote.
1833- King Capodistrias of Greece is assassinated (he had lots of trouble with various Greek factions) and as he had no issue, a new King was elected. The King chosen was a Danish prince, 20 year old Karl. Karl I was entitled King of the Hellenes and would popularly rule Greece until his death in 1872.
1815- At the Congress of Vienna the Quadruple Alliance between Russia, Prussia, Britain and the Netherlands and Austria was renewed and they pledged themselves to maintain by force, for 20 years, the arrangements reached at Paris and Vienna. At the same Congress, Russia, Prussia and Austria signed the Holy Alliance, which was eventually signed by every other nation in Europe (except the Pope and the Sultan of Turkey), mainly to please Tsar Alexander, who concocted it out a sense of great religious revival. The Holy Alliance though, had no real backbone to it and was essentially meaningless.
Russians land in Hawai’i and sign a trade treaty with King Kamehameha I. This is their second successful trade treaty in the Pacific, the first being with Japan in 1804.
1816- In London, a new act was passed by both the Parliament and the States-General (which had not yet returned to the Hague in the Netherlands). This was the Act of Union of 1816, which formally and totally united the Netherlands with the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Henceforth the country would officially be titled the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland and the Netherlands. This Act of Union, however was somewhat different from the previous Acts of Unions with Scotland and Ireland. Here the States-General, instead of dissolving itself, would be retained, but instead agreed to hand over in perpetuity certain powers that it had hitherto exercised. This was agreed to by the Parliament because of the long history of the States-General. Parliament was of course increased in size with the addition of Dutch members of parliament who were elected directly from the Netherlands (though a few were elected by the States-General). Parliament of course, had supreme authority over even the States-General now, but with the retention of the States-General, many Scottish and Irish MPs began to call for the restitution of the parliaments in Scotland and Ireland under similar conditions. King George I himself, approved of the idea and, in late 1816, a new Act came into effect: the Ireland and Scotland Governments Act. This Act allowed for a new Scottish Assembly and an Irish Assembly/Dail (locally called the “Dail”), which was to have some of the powers of the States-General of Netherlands. The Act also provided for the new Welsh Council (despite the fact that Wales was not in the title of the Act), which would have more limited powers than the Assembly, Dail or Estates-General. Generally all of these “sub-parliaments” or local parliaments had the power to raise local taxes (which were separated from (union) government taxes- although taxes remained the same as before these local governments, just that instead the taxes were now split), oversee local education, roads (railways were left entirely to the Parliament which was also responsible for roads), and local courts and constabularies. The Acts were widely popular in Ireland and the Netherlands and were generally well greeted by the Scots (some of whom didn’t care) and the Welsh seemed not to notice.
This union of the governments Britain (and Ireland) with the Netherlands mirrored the union of the (English/British) East India Company (officially “The United Company of Merchants of England Trading to the East Indies”) (EEIC) with the Dutch East India Company/Verenigde Oostindische Compagnie (VOC) to create the “East India Companie” (EIC in English or OiC in Dutch) in 1803 during the Napoleonic wars. This union of the two formerly rival East India Companies was accompanied by the “tidying up” of the administration of the various territories in the East ruled the two former companies. Firstly Cape Province, formerly Dutch, was placed under UK government control; Secondly all other territories were placed under the administration of two new executive branches in the company (West and East). Under the Western branch of administration, everything north and west of (including) the Adaman and Nicobar Islands was placed under the branch administering the “Western holdings” of the “Companie”. Everything to the east and south was placed under the branch of the “Eastern holdings”. Many of the administrators were the same, previous Dutch or British administrators, but now Ceylon fell under the rule of the administrators in India and the administrators of Singapore (which was to be founded by the Companie in1819), the Straits Settlements, Malaya, Sarawak and North Borneo, were subordinated to the administration in Batavia on Java. The placement of new administrators from Britain into Batavia also ensured a tempering of Dutch rule of the East Indies and soon the East Indies began to resemble India in having areas directly under Companie rule and “princely states” which were run by princes allied to or subordinate to the Companie.
1817-1819- The “new” United Kingdom fights the last Maratha War in India and extend British rule over most of the subcontinent, except for Punjab, Kashmir and Sind.
In Europe, Serbia gains autonomy with Russia’s backing after a struggle lasting from 1804-1817. The first king is Obrenevic.
1818- Congress of Aix-la-Chapelle. Alsace is given independence (and joined the German Confederation) as was basically agreed to under provisions of the Treaty of Paris and Congress of Vienna. A Bavarian prince, Karl Theodore Maximilian August (brother of Ludwig who would become Bavarian king in 1825) was chosen to become the new Prince of Alsace (Alsace being made into a Principality). Lorraine was duly returned to France as the occupation by the allies ended. France rejoined the family of nations by signing up to the new Quintuple Alliance (meanwhile the Quadruple Alliance was secretly renewed as a safeguard against French resurgence).
Across the seas, Russia was enjoying the fruits of its labour as it was now trading with Hawai’i and Japan. In North America, the USA and UPA were busy settling their new territories. In the USA, Virginia, Maryland and Delaware had become alarmed in 1804 at the fact that they were now only 3 slave states out of the 10 states in the union and insisted that of all new states admitted to the union ½ must allow slavery and so Congress in Philadelphia came up with the Mason-Dixon Resolution whereby all new states that were entirely south of the Mason-Dixon Line (as it was drawn straight across the new territory obtained from the ex-colony of Louisiana) would be slave states. By 1810, two new states had been admitted: Kentucky (from Virginia’s lands south of the Ohio) and Transohio (OTL Ohio). Three new territories were formed: Michigan, Indian territory and Mississippi territory (OTL Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota). The rest was unorganised territory. In the UPA, the new province of Franklin (in honour of Ben Franklin who helped come up with the Albany Plan upon which the UPA constitution was based) was formed (from OTL Tennessee which was North Carolinian territory). Four territories were organised: North Mississippi territory, South Mississippi territory, Orleans territory and Indian territory.
Meanwhile in Germany, Austria remained supreme and with Metternich at her helm, continued to keep the German states divided (and thus easily influenced) by restricting the subjects that could be discussed in the various German parliaments and universities (and placing inspectors in the universities to watch over radical students). Prussia was busy undergoing administrative reform as it incorporated its new Rhenish provinces, as well as the new Saxon lands it was able to obtain in the Congress of Vienna (including the important cities of Leipzig and Dresden which remained Saxon in OTL).
1819- In North America, the UPA manages to find a price for Florida, which is sold to it, by Spain. The new territory is split into East and West Florida. Spain uses the money to fund mercenaries and its own soldiers’ campaigns against its more important South American and Central American colonies.
In the East Indies, Singapore is founded as a naval base and trading post.
In London, Victoria, daughter of Edward (the brother of King George I) is born, while later in the year King Kamehameha II of Hawai’i visits London sparking interest in Hawai’i. The Hawaiian King dies that year in London. Also in Europe the Russians propose intervention in the Spanish colonies in the Americas to reassert the Spanish king’s authority. Only France accepts the proposal and in late 1819 a Franco-Russian task force (with German mercenaries) sets out for the New World.
1820- A revolution in Spain forces King Ferdinand VII to revive the more democratic constitution of 1812.
The Persian Gulf states sign a peace treaty with the UK, which ends piracy in the Gulf and leads to British supremacy in the region for a long time to come. In the Pacific the UK also signs a trade treaty with Hawai’i.
1821-Revolutions similar to the Spanish one break out in Naples, Piedmont and Portugal. Austria sends in her army to suppress the revolutions in Italy, while in Portugal, the British Army (under the Dutch Marshall Colijn, who replaced Marshall Beresford in 1815) leaves and in effect stops governing the country. King John VI of Portugal finally returns from Brazil, leaving his son Dom Pedro as regent of the colony.
In the Ottoman Empire, the Greeks revolt against the Turks. The revolt starts, not in Greece, but in Moldavia and Wallachia by the Philike Hetaireia (A Greek nationalist secret society) headed by Prince Ypsilanti (former Russian Imperial Guard). As hoped, the Rumanians were inspired by the uprising and rose in revolt themselves. Almost immediately new uprisings occurred in the Morea (by the Greeks) and in Albania. The barbarity of the war (on both sides, but the Europeans focused on Turkish atrocities against the Greeks and Rumanians), persuades Tsar Alexander I (the fact that Prince Ypsilanti headed the revolt and that the Rumanians revolted too helped persuade him) into declaring war on Turkey and invading Moldavia and Wallachia and recognizing the Greek government of Count Capodistrias.
1822- The Duke of Wellington becomes Premier of the UK and recognizes the Greek government a year later.
1823- The UK and France having recognized the Greek government, assemble a joint Fleet in the Mediterranean with the Russians and send it towards the Aegean. The Fleet passes through the Aegean and destroys a Turkish Fleet off Gallipoli and anchors off Constantinople. With an Allied fleet outside his capital city and the Russians in occupation of Moldavia and Wallachia and headed towards Bulgaria and Greece, the Sultan capitulates and signs the Treaty of Bucharest. The Treaty guarantees Serbian, Greek and Moldavian and Wallachian autonomy under Turkish suzreignty.
Having settled the affair of the Balkans, and emboldened by it, France invades Spain to restore King Ferdinand VII’s authority and abolish the constitution. Meanwhile, in the Americas, the French, Russians, German mercenaries and Spanish were not having grand success against the South and Central American rebels. They had returned Spanish authority to Uruguay and Central America, but that was about it.
1824- King Louis XVIII of France dies and is succeeded by his son, Louis(-Ferdinand) who becomes Louis XIX. Louis XIX was born in 1779 to his father, Louis XVIII and his mother Maria Josephine. His father had taught him that royal power could now only be reconciled, partly by kingly prudence and partly by acceptance of parliamentary rules, with the new forces of liberalism, nationalism and the interests of the bourgeoisie. Louis XVIII had chosen capable ministers who restored French prestige and allowed for economic recovery and financial stability. Louis XIX followed his father and had such men as Baron Louis, Guizot, Baron Pasquier, Duc Decazes, Tallyrand, Vicomte de Martignac and Duc de Richelieu in his government (at various times).
1824-26- First Burmese War fought by the British and extends British control over into Burma.
1825- The French, Russians and German mercenaries return home from the Americas, the mission largely a failure. Only Uruguay remained Spanish (apart from Cuba and Puerto Rico) and this was largely due to Portuguese aid from Dom Pedro in Brazil. The UK now recognizes the independent former Spanish colonies.
In southeast Asia, western New Guinea is annexed by the Companie (it would be transferred to the colony of Western Australia in 1833). In Australia the colony of Van Diemen’s Land (Tasmania) is founded.
1825-26- Persian-Russian War. Russia takes Tabriz from Persia and resoundly defeats the Persians, annexing more land in the Caucasus.
1825-1827- Turkey and Greece go to war again and the Greeks hold out heroically (in the eyes of Europe) until in 1827, Russia, France and the UK intervene once again. In the Treaty of Constantinople that ended the war (and the 1827 Russo-Turkish war), Greece attained full independence with Count Capodistrias becoming the first King of Greece. Greece’s borders to the north were expanded and Russia gained territory in Asia from Turkey.
1826-1827- The UK intervenes in Portugal to preserve the constitutional government.
1828- small Javanese revolt against the EIC/OiC that lasts only for the year.
1829- Suttee (widow burning) made illegal in India.
1830- France invades Algeria and successfully establishes a colony on the north African coast. In the Pacific, Malietoa Vaiinupo becomes King of Samoa. In Europe a Polish revolt breaks out and is crushed by Austria, Prussia and Russia.
1831- The UK abolishes slavery in the British Empire. Immediately relations with the UPA under President-General Andrew Jackson deteriorate somewhat. Other European powers followed suit over the next 50 years: France would follow this lead in 1848, Argentina in 1850 and Portugal between 1858 and 1874.
1832-1849- Arab resistance to the French occupation of Algeria.
1832- the First Reform Bill is passed in Parliament (applicable to the entire United Kingdom or Verendige Konikrijk (in Dutch)) giving more men the vote.
1833- King Capodistrias of Greece is assassinated (he had lots of trouble with various Greek factions) and as he had no issue, a new King was elected. The King chosen was a Danish prince, 20 year old Karl. Karl I was entitled King of the Hellenes and would popularly rule Greece until his death in 1872.
Nitpick: Unless I missed a major historical event, it is called the Ottoman Empire, not Turkey.
Thanks, I should have written Ottoman Empire, but a number of my history books refer to the Ottoman Empire as Turkey almost randomly. Officially it was the Ottoman Empire pre-1923, but even in the 1800s Europeans called it Turkey (one famous Punch cartoon has a Bear [Russia] holding a Turkey in a fez [the Ottoman Empire/Turkey] in a deathly bear-hug and the caption talks about Russia and Turkey).
Catholic Emancipation
hey fellas, I missed this section in my last post, so......:
In 1824 the Westminister Parliament, upon the urging of many business owners and manufacturers, repealed the 1799 and 1800 Combination Laws which forbade associations of various kinds. Manufacturers had believed that these laws were only encouraging underground trade unions and that once trade unions were legal they would eventually decline and die a natural death in time. Joseph Hume managed to steer a bill through the House of Commons (sometimes called the "Huise of Commons" in the English-Dutch creole) putting trade unions on equal legal status with that of employer's associations.
As soon as the bill was passed however, there was an epidemic of strikes (some with violence). Thus in 1825 a second bill was passed which severely restricted the use of intimidation and violence but accepting the legality of trade unions for regulation wages and hours of labour. Using this moderate freedom numerous trade unions formed throughout the UK (VK) and greatly expanded their activities, even forming alliances of sorts with trade unions that popped up in Belgium, France and the Americas. Many trade unions, now freed from acting as secret societies, drew up open constitutions and books of rules.
1828-1829- The Test and Corporation Acts are repealed allowing Protestant dissenters to hold legally most of the highest offices in civil government and commissions in the armed services. This small victory for religious equality paved the way for tackling the more difficult issue of Roman Catholic emancipation. By now the growing strenght and numbers of Methodism reinforced the demand and noncorfomists (Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists) now numbered 3.22 million out of a population of of 17.8 million. England had only 60,000 Catholics, but the Netherlands had little over 880,000 Catholics (30% of the population of the Netherlands) and Ireland was almost entirely Catholic (Ireland having 1.3 million people). Even though the various parts of the Kingdom now had some form of local self-government and Catholics were not prevented from voting, Catholics could still not hold responsible civil or political office (even in the Irish Dail).
In Ireland, one Daniel O'Connell revived an older "Catholic Association", with wide popular membership (even in England and the Netherlands) and a subscription of a penny a month (nicknamed the "Catholic rent"). The Catholic Association aimed to promote the candidature of of MPs pledged to support Catholic emancipation at Westminister; but all such members had to be Protestant, since Catholics could not sit in Parliament.
As 200,000 Irishmen had the vote and because freedom of association was legally permitted, the Association was able to avoid all the characteristic weaknesses of a secret conspiracy and its meetings and proceedings were open and its methods were peaceful.
In 1828 O'Connell was elected MP for County Clare, with Catholic Association support, (as nothing stated that Catholics could not run for MP, they just couldn't sit in Parliament) and the election was accompanied by no disorder or illegality. The government of the Duke of Wellington was now confronted by a dilemma: As O'Connell was a Roman Catholic he was legally incapable of sitting in Parliament. Either the government must remove this legal incapacity or find Irish constituencies and several Dutch constituencies one after another following the example of County Clare, with the increasing likelihood of deadlock and civil war. King George I tried to prevent any proposal on Catholic emancipation from being put before Parliament, but he have way when the ministry offered its resignation and several MPs (who were supported by the Catholic Association) threatened to resign. When Robert Peel and Pieter Fijnje jointly moved the bill in the Commons, Wellington pointed out the alternative was civil war. The bill passed through Parliament making Catholics eligible for all but a few specified offices in the UK (and of course in all the local governments) and giving them equal civil rights with Protestant dissenters.
Across the border in Belgium, King Adolphus I (King George's brother, the British prince elected as Belgian King) welcomed the move (he had converted to Catholicism upon assuming the throne of Belgium which was almost entirely Catholic).
hey fellas, I missed this section in my last post, so......:
In 1824 the Westminister Parliament, upon the urging of many business owners and manufacturers, repealed the 1799 and 1800 Combination Laws which forbade associations of various kinds. Manufacturers had believed that these laws were only encouraging underground trade unions and that once trade unions were legal they would eventually decline and die a natural death in time. Joseph Hume managed to steer a bill through the House of Commons (sometimes called the "Huise of Commons" in the English-Dutch creole) putting trade unions on equal legal status with that of employer's associations.
As soon as the bill was passed however, there was an epidemic of strikes (some with violence). Thus in 1825 a second bill was passed which severely restricted the use of intimidation and violence but accepting the legality of trade unions for regulation wages and hours of labour. Using this moderate freedom numerous trade unions formed throughout the UK (VK) and greatly expanded their activities, even forming alliances of sorts with trade unions that popped up in Belgium, France and the Americas. Many trade unions, now freed from acting as secret societies, drew up open constitutions and books of rules.
1828-1829- The Test and Corporation Acts are repealed allowing Protestant dissenters to hold legally most of the highest offices in civil government and commissions in the armed services. This small victory for religious equality paved the way for tackling the more difficult issue of Roman Catholic emancipation. By now the growing strenght and numbers of Methodism reinforced the demand and noncorfomists (Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists) now numbered 3.22 million out of a population of of 17.8 million. England had only 60,000 Catholics, but the Netherlands had little over 880,000 Catholics (30% of the population of the Netherlands) and Ireland was almost entirely Catholic (Ireland having 1.3 million people). Even though the various parts of the Kingdom now had some form of local self-government and Catholics were not prevented from voting, Catholics could still not hold responsible civil or political office (even in the Irish Dail).
In Ireland, one Daniel O'Connell revived an older "Catholic Association", with wide popular membership (even in England and the Netherlands) and a subscription of a penny a month (nicknamed the "Catholic rent"). The Catholic Association aimed to promote the candidature of of MPs pledged to support Catholic emancipation at Westminister; but all such members had to be Protestant, since Catholics could not sit in Parliament.
As 200,000 Irishmen had the vote and because freedom of association was legally permitted, the Association was able to avoid all the characteristic weaknesses of a secret conspiracy and its meetings and proceedings were open and its methods were peaceful.
In 1828 O'Connell was elected MP for County Clare, with Catholic Association support, (as nothing stated that Catholics could not run for MP, they just couldn't sit in Parliament) and the election was accompanied by no disorder or illegality. The government of the Duke of Wellington was now confronted by a dilemma: As O'Connell was a Roman Catholic he was legally incapable of sitting in Parliament. Either the government must remove this legal incapacity or find Irish constituencies and several Dutch constituencies one after another following the example of County Clare, with the increasing likelihood of deadlock and civil war. King George I tried to prevent any proposal on Catholic emancipation from being put before Parliament, but he have way when the ministry offered its resignation and several MPs (who were supported by the Catholic Association) threatened to resign. When Robert Peel and Pieter Fijnje jointly moved the bill in the Commons, Wellington pointed out the alternative was civil war. The bill passed through Parliament making Catholics eligible for all but a few specified offices in the UK (and of course in all the local governments) and giving them equal civil rights with Protestant dissenters.
Across the border in Belgium, King Adolphus I (King George's brother, the British prince elected as Belgian King) welcomed the move (he had converted to Catholicism upon assuming the throne of Belgium which was almost entirely Catholic).
this is a very in depth and well thought out TL. I like the fact that even with the massive amouts of territory added to the UK, there are some legal issues that needed to be addressed. i'm curious- is the UPA under the UK umbrella? will the USA and the UPA ever be united? Will there be a map in the future of the UK's acquisitions both in Europe and the world? A map of the US/UPA in the future?
It's due to one of those tiny ripples in Europe making their way to the Far East (though later that may change...). Essentially I just postulate that in TTL Napoleanic Wars one or more of OTL envoys to Japan is killed in this TL due to a few French bullets (due in part to a slightly different French invasion which happens to go through a few towns that they didn't in OTL and thus buck up on those poor chaps). The replacement envoys in TTL manage to convince the Japanese (with much paying of respects and so forth and a wee bit of charm) that trading with Russia is not a bad idea. The Japanese of course have not opened up. They only allow the Russians to trade with them at one specific port (maybe Yokohama or some northern coastal port) and the Russians are not allowed into the town, but only a specially designated trade area, which just happens to have very few Japanese except for those of the mercantiline streak... This same set-up applies for the UK later on. The Japanese are also very picky about which products they allow past the trade area. And of course this entire arrangement can come crashing down due to the personal acts of the European traders...
Thank you.
What do you mean by "under the UK umbrella"?
Maybe the USA and UPA will be united, maybe not...
maps...there should be plenty..I like those things..they just summarize so much information. In fact....
here's a map of Europe in 1815 (I think this should map should also cover things til 1830 at least). Please note that with regards to Belgium I have kept in the OTL border to show how much French territory was transferred to Belgium in TTL and if you look at Prussia and Saxony you should note that Leipzig and Dresden have been transferred to Prussia in TTL unlike in OTL (OTL borders still shown)
Europe 1815
A most interesting scenario, I have to admit this is the first time I've had a proper look at it and I shall make a point of following it from here on. I do have a few nitpicks.
The first is that the only reason George III becomes duke of Hannover instead of his father was because Frederick dies because of an injury suffered playing cricket, now if the Hannoverians don't rule England Frederick won't ever play cricket and he becomes duke of Hannover in 1760 instead of his son.
The second is that the founding of the straits settlement at Singapore was brought about because of the fact that the Dutch East Indies were controlled by pro Napoleonic forces during the war just conlcluded and the British felt they needed a port in that part of the world when they handed back territory won in battle at the end of the war. With the DEI being part of the British Empire such a need won't exist. Admitidly you delayed the founding of Singapore by one year but I doubt it would happen so soon, if at all.
Thirdly, Tasmania/Van Diemans Land was founded in 1803 and not 1825. Along with Western Australia, Tasmania was founded because of fear of French interest during the Napoleonic Wars and since the Napoleonic Wars occur in your scenario I still feel the earlier settlement is valid. An interesting aside is that during this same period, when Mathew Flinders became the first person to circumnavigate Australia from 1802-1803 he renamed New Holland Australia. With the close connection with Holland I wonder if in your TL the name Australia is ever revived.
The last one isn't so much a nitpick but an opinion and that is that if the UPA is basically pro British, then trade with Britian and the Natherlands would be by direct route and not via New York. This means that apart from trade goods, political ideas, fashions and culture would travel directly from Britain to the UPA and that suggest to me that the hostility to the end of the slave trade may not be as strong as you suggest. It should be remembered that the British abolished the slave trade in 1807 and this would give the UPA plenty of warning about the abolition of slavery itself in the 1830s.
The first is that the only reason George III becomes duke of Hannover instead of his father was because Frederick dies because of an injury suffered playing cricket, now if the Hannoverians don't rule England Frederick won't ever play cricket and he becomes duke of Hannover in 1760 instead of his son.
The second is that the founding of the straits settlement at Singapore was brought about because of the fact that the Dutch East Indies were controlled by pro Napoleonic forces during the war just conlcluded and the British felt they needed a port in that part of the world when they handed back territory won in battle at the end of the war. With the DEI being part of the British Empire such a need won't exist. Admitidly you delayed the founding of Singapore by one year but I doubt it would happen so soon, if at all.
Thirdly, Tasmania/Van Diemans Land was founded in 1803 and not 1825. Along with Western Australia, Tasmania was founded because of fear of French interest during the Napoleonic Wars and since the Napoleonic Wars occur in your scenario I still feel the earlier settlement is valid. An interesting aside is that during this same period, when Mathew Flinders became the first person to circumnavigate Australia from 1802-1803 he renamed New Holland Australia. With the close connection with Holland I wonder if in your TL the name Australia is ever revived.
The last one isn't so much a nitpick but an opinion and that is that if the UPA is basically pro British, then trade with Britian and the Natherlands would be by direct route and not via New York. This means that apart from trade goods, political ideas, fashions and culture would travel directly from Britain to the UPA and that suggest to me that the hostility to the end of the slave trade may not be as strong as you suggest. It should be remembered that the British abolished the slave trade in 1807 and this would give the UPA plenty of warning about the abolition of slavery itself in the 1830s.
Thanks Mark, always good to hear constructive nitpicking.
Never knew this til 3 seconds ago. Hmmm...well, it would kinda throw a whole kink in the present succession, but then again, people always die for some odd reason. We can just have Frederick be unluckly and be struck down with influenza or smallpox or maybe he was injured in a horse riding accident (got thrown and broke his neck)....any idea of what potentially dangerous sport was played on the continent around this time?
Hmm....100% sure on that? I could almost swear that the DEI were never controlled (or controlled maybe for a year or two) by pro Napoleanic forces during the Napoleanic wars because Britain occupied them for the period. And even if the DEI are now part of the British Empire, they are still controlled by a Company and not the government right? And of course as a trading company they would prefer to have control over as much resources (read: Spice, etc.) as possible, no? So expansion in the East Indies will continue and Singapore lies along a heavily used trade route (one which if not as heavily used then was pretty traditional by the early 1800s) and the Straits have some strategic value, so I don't see why the British wouldn't found Singapore (or its equivalent on the same island) at some point in the future. I would have given it a different name, but well, finding alternate names is kinda hard (any help would be appreciated )
Well, about Tasmania you are partly correct. According to my history book, the colony was founded in 1825. Now according to this website,
http://tourtasmania.com/tasfaq/history/outline.html
English permanent settlers first arrived in Van Diemen's Land in 1803 at Sullivan's Cove, but Van Diemens Land is established as a semi-autonomous colony in 1825 instead of being administered from Sydney, so my section is still correct. Thanks for the info though. Tasmania will probably not become "Tasmania" in TTL (maybe a new town which will become the capital of the colony will be called "Tasmania" (rather like Pretoria in South Africa after Pretorius (a Boer Trekker)-hmm South Africa will be slightly different as well...).
About New Holland/Australia, well it might be interesting to keep the name New Holland, but then again Australia is a much more sensible name for that large island continent and as you pointed out, the name had been used in reference to it before....maybe we can keep New Holland.
What do others think? New Holland or Australia?
Hmmm...true, and I never intended for the UPA to break off relations with the UK (they haven't and won't in this TL), just that the UPA will be a tad bit disappointed by the abolition of slavery by the UK due to their own culture. Surely fashions, goods, ideas, and culture would travel directly from Bristol, Liverpool, London, Rotterdam and the rest of the UK/VK to the UPA (probably mainly via Charleston, S.C. at first, but I still imagined that the UPA would not follow suit at least for a few years and of course would not be thrilled by the idea (though not hostile either- as direct trade with the UK has resulted in a more industrialized "south", less dependent upon Cotton, so slavery is not as necessary to keep the economy running and the money rolling in.
OTL USA also abolished the slave trade around the same time as Britain, but the southern states (which could trade ideas, culture, fashion and goods directly with the North) still didn't give up slavery. I imagine the slaves in the south will be freed earlier in this TL than they were in OTL.
Never knew this til 3 seconds ago. Hmmm...well, it would kinda throw a whole kink in the present succession, but then again, people always die for some odd reason. We can just have Frederick be unluckly and be struck down with influenza or smallpox or maybe he was injured in a horse riding accident (got thrown and broke his neck)....any idea of what potentially dangerous sport was played on the continent around this time?
Hmm....100% sure on that? I could almost swear that the DEI were never controlled (or controlled maybe for a year or two) by pro Napoleanic forces during the Napoleanic wars because Britain occupied them for the period. And even if the DEI are now part of the British Empire, they are still controlled by a Company and not the government right? And of course as a trading company they would prefer to have control over as much resources (read: Spice, etc.) as possible, no? So expansion in the East Indies will continue and Singapore lies along a heavily used trade route (one which if not as heavily used then was pretty traditional by the early 1800s) and the Straits have some strategic value, so I don't see why the British wouldn't found Singapore (or its equivalent on the same island) at some point in the future. I would have given it a different name, but well, finding alternate names is kinda hard (any help would be appreciated
)Well, about Tasmania you are partly correct. According to my history book, the colony was founded in 1825. Now according to this website,
http://tourtasmania.com/tasfaq/history/outline.html
English permanent settlers first arrived in Van Diemen's Land in 1803 at Sullivan's Cove, but Van Diemens Land is established as a semi-autonomous colony in 1825 instead of being administered from Sydney, so my section is still correct. Thanks for the info though. Tasmania will probably not become "Tasmania" in TTL (maybe a new town which will become the capital of the colony will be called "Tasmania" (rather like Pretoria in South Africa after Pretorius (a Boer Trekker)-hmm South Africa will be slightly different as well...).
About New Holland/Australia, well it might be interesting to keep the name New Holland, but then again Australia is a much more sensible name for that large island continent and as you pointed out, the name had been used in reference to it before....maybe we can keep New Holland.
What do others think? New Holland or Australia?
Hmmm...true, and I never intended for the UPA to break off relations with the UK (they haven't and won't in this TL), just that the UPA will be a tad bit disappointed by the abolition of slavery by the UK due to their own culture. Surely fashions, goods, ideas, and culture would travel directly from Bristol, Liverpool, London, Rotterdam and the rest of the UK/VK to the UPA (probably mainly via Charleston, S.C. at first, but I still imagined that the UPA would not follow suit at least for a few years and of course would not be thrilled by the idea (though not hostile either- as direct trade with the UK has resulted in a more industrialized "south", less dependent upon Cotton, so slavery is not as necessary to keep the economy running and the money rolling in.
OTL USA also abolished the slave trade around the same time as Britain, but the southern states (which could trade ideas, culture, fashion and goods directly with the North) still didn't give up slavery. I imagine the slaves in the south will be freed earlier in this TL than they were in OTL.
Well, having read up a bit at the following two websites:
http://www.davidreilly.com/australian_explorers/flinders/flinders.htm
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/encounter/flinders/namingaust.htm
I think that maybe Flinders probably would circumvent Australia and call the continent Australia/Terra Australis (maybe not in 1803, but a bit later). However I don't see why we cannot keep both names. it appears that New Holland only applied to the west of the continent (before everyone knew that New South Wales and New Holland were part of the same land mass. So maybe instead of having the colony of Western Australia being founded in 1825 it is the colony of New Holland instead?
http://www.davidreilly.com/australian_explorers/flinders/flinders.htm
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/encounter/flinders/namingaust.htm
I think that maybe Flinders probably would circumvent Australia and call the continent Australia/Terra Australis (maybe not in 1803, but a bit later). However I don't see why we cannot keep both names. it appears that New Holland only applied to the west of the continent (before everyone knew that New South Wales and New Holland were part of the same land mass. So maybe instead of having the colony of Western Australia being founded in 1825 it is the colony of New Holland instead?
"Poor Fred" as he was known to the English was a serious sportsman from the age of 28 to 44 when he died. If he had outlived his father he would have been 53 in 1760. Apart from dueling which wasn't really a sport there weren't any sports that had the frequency of fatal accidents of cricket in those days. As he is such an unknown quantity you could make his views and thoses of his son interchangeable without anyone being able to claim that you are wrong or if Poor Fred is expendible then I would suggest a hunting accident.
I hadn't thought too much about the name Van Diemen's land over Tasmania since it was Abel Yansz Tasman who name the island after Antonio Van Diemen. The name change was brought about by the Tasmanians themsleves when they achieved self government in 1856 but I don't know why they bothered.
I hope no-one from Tasmania reads this.
By the end of the Napoleonic Wars, the British under Sir Stanford Raffles had siezed control of most of the island of Sumatra and had to return it when control of Holland passed back to the House of Orange. This places Singapore at a crucial point. If it is founded by the British, it will be called Singapore or another name I can't figure out at this moment. That is because Raffles spoke Bahasa, the local language, and Singa pura means Lion City. Singapore had an even older name and in remebering it I realised that the foundation of Singapore was probably inevitable, and the older name is Terminal Island but I don't know the translation into Bahasa. This all goes out the window if founded by the Dutch because they would give it a dutch name. Does anyone know how to say Terminal Island in Dutch?
It is an interesting fact not known by many that New South Wales originally stretch from 135 degrees east to 135 degrees west and from 10 degrees 37 minutes south to 43 degrees 39 minutes south. This places Western Australia outside NSW but not Tasmania and as such Western Australia was still called New Holland untill settled by James Stirling in 1829. So it is even possible that Western Australia may have been Dutch instead. And if there is co-operation between the British and Dutch then it is also possible that the French may have never gotten a foothold in the Pacific.
One thing I was thinking of asking was since you have been able to show us those maps. Could you list the Monarchs and more importantly Prime Ministers?
I hadn't thought too much about the name Van Diemen's land over Tasmania since it was Abel Yansz Tasman who name the island after Antonio Van Diemen. The name change was brought about by the Tasmanians themsleves when they achieved self government in 1856 but I don't know why they bothered.
I hope no-one from Tasmania reads this.
By the end of the Napoleonic Wars, the British under Sir Stanford Raffles had siezed control of most of the island of Sumatra and had to return it when control of Holland passed back to the House of Orange. This places Singapore at a crucial point. If it is founded by the British, it will be called Singapore or another name I can't figure out at this moment. That is because Raffles spoke Bahasa, the local language, and Singa pura means Lion City. Singapore had an even older name and in remebering it I realised that the foundation of Singapore was probably inevitable, and the older name is Terminal Island but I don't know the translation into Bahasa. This all goes out the window if founded by the Dutch because they would give it a dutch name. Does anyone know how to say Terminal Island in Dutch?
It is an interesting fact not known by many that New South Wales originally stretch from 135 degrees east to 135 degrees west and from 10 degrees 37 minutes south to 43 degrees 39 minutes south. This places Western Australia outside NSW but not Tasmania and as such Western Australia was still called New Holland untill settled by James Stirling in 1829. So it is even possible that Western Australia may have been Dutch instead. And if there is co-operation between the British and Dutch then it is also possible that the French may have never gotten a foothold in the Pacific.
One thing I was thinking of asking was since you have been able to show us those maps. Could you list the Monarchs and more importantly Prime Ministers?
the earlier statement that i meant was that the "UK umbrella" is that the UK is the mother country of the UPA and if the USA will unite with the UPA sometime in the future.
oh and whats the gaps of white in the caucusus region? Does Russia not rule that? Are they independent? Is the gap in the A/H Empire and the Ottomon Empire free as well? Why haven't you shown Belgium under associated rule with the UK?
oh and whats the gaps of white in the caucusus region? Does Russia not rule that? Are they independent? Is the gap in the A/H Empire and the Ottomon Empire free as well? Why haven't you shown Belgium under associated rule with the UK?
by Mark
Right, a hunting accident it is then.
by Mark
Well I do remember marvelling at how huge New South Wales used to be at the PCL map library (with historical maps of Australasia in it). By the way what are the people who live in New South Wales called? New South Welsh?
Well, western Australia will not be "Dutch" instead, since the Dutch and British are now one, but I think I will retain the name New Holland for western Australia (it will have a mix of English and Dutch speaking settlers)
Hmmm...the French not in the Pacific...wow! That sure opens up a lot of space.
by G.Bone
Ah, okay. I think I get ya now. Well the UPA regards the UK as a maternal figure or maybe a fraternal figure, but the UK is not the mother country of the UPA in the sense that the UPA is a colony of the UK. It is independent (was made so in the 1783 Treaty of Paris which also saw the UK recognizing the USA's independence).
by G.Bone
Well the white areas in the Caucasus are countries that are Russian protectorates (for now) or that are still independent of Russia (for now).
The gap in Austria (not Austria-Hungary yet) and the Ottoman Empire is Montenegro and it is very much independent.
Belgium is shown in a different colour because its only association with the UK is that it is allied with (but not ruled by) the UK and its King was a British prince (Adolphus) elected to start an entirely new Royal line separate from that of the UK's.
by Mark
Well in this TL the British don't have Prime Ministers, they have Premiers. Now I can list all the Monarchs and will:
House of Stuart (and Oranje)
Mary and William III 1688-1694 (joint rule)
William III 1694-1702
Anne (regent) 1702-1710 (died 1714)
House of Stuart-Orange
William IV 1710-1744
William V 1744-1767
House of Stuart-Orange-Hannover
John II 1767-1813
House of Hannover
George IV/I 1813-
(IV of Hannover, I of UK and Netherlands)
I am working on the list of Premiers, I should have it up next post.
Now here's a better treat:
the family tree of the monarchy to date (1830) in the TL (note persons underlined with solid lines are Kings/Queens of England and Scotland (James II-Anne), Kings/Queens of the United Kingdom (Anne onwards) and Stadholders (later monarchs) of the Netherlands (William III onwards); persons underlined with a dotted line are Electors of Hannover (later Kings of Hannover) and the person underlined with both a solid line and a dotted line is the King of Belgium):