Austro-Hungary in World War 2

The inspiration for this AH involving the AH Empire was a recent release by Avalanche Press Games:

http://www.avalanchepress.com/gameImperialNavy.php

There are about ten scenarios given and I've picked to develop those that have the AH Empire fighting Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy and eventually sending warships east to assist the British in the Far East.

So far I've adopted a POD at about 1906, tho may back that up to 1904 or 1905. From looking thru past threads and my own deductions I'm looking at the AH Empire bowing out of the Great War sometime between 1916 and 1917. It is important for it to exit before the US enter with Wilson and his ideas of self-determination. I will have to mix in the Sixtus Affair.

In order to get the AH army off onto a better start, I am considering that both Hotzendorf and Moltke the Younger actually discuss and confer on military matters before 1914. Coordinated moves at the beginning of the war with Russia helps mitigate the capture of so many AH officers and men by the Russians at the the Battle of Lemberg.

AH concentrates primarily on Russia at the beginning, leaving forces just to occupy Belgrade for the time being. Once Russia is pushed back AH forces are moved to crush Serbia. Bulgaria is also enticed to join in exchange for Serbian Macedonia.

The Austro-Hungarian annexation of Valona earlier gives it a naval base capable of launching attacks into the Mediterranean and also keeps Italian, French and British forces from evacuating the retreating Serbian army and government. Unable to advance thru neutral Greece the Serbs accept an armistice with the Austrians and they are forced out of the war.

The Italian front sees the AH adopt a defensive position as Italy hurdles itself against fortified positions in Trentino and along the Isonzo. Austrian forces are pulled together and launch a massive invasion across the Isonzo that pushed the Italian army back in retreat. Within a few days the Austro-Hungarian fleet mounts an amphibious assault on Venice and successfully seize the city. The reeling Italian army finally digs in its heels at Padua on the Bassano River. The government in Rome also collapses and Austria seeks an armistice with the new government (Nov. 24 1916).

The death of Franz-Josef brings Karl to the throne who begins seeking a way to end the war or at least end Austrian involvement. Under his insistence Bosnia-Hercegovina, with the exception of a few islands and ports, will be ceded to Serbia in order to secure a peace treaty.

At the insistence of Admiral Haus at the outbreak of the war shipyard works have not been enlisted into the army so the K.u.K Navy is able to build and complete the improved-Tegetthoff class battleships - the Kaiser Franz-Josef class.

*******

Well, that is as far as I've developed the concept. I'm thinking that before the Austrians end their portion of the war the Russians will launch an offensive that will drive as far as the Carpathians in order to take the Hungarians down a few notches.

Undoubtedly the will be a reconfiguration of the AH Empire and it may be more a federal organization than Austro-Hungarian-Slav.

The Germans just get the same drubbing they did historically and Russia collapses into Communist chaos. Poland is reconstituted, tho without any lands from AH.

AH is a participant at the Washington Naval Conference in 1922 and accepts partity with France and Italy.

In this ATL there is no Anschluss between Germany and Austria-Hungary to the embarassement of Hitler. Also the Sudetenland crisis never occurs - or it is a trigger that sets off the Second World War. Germany invades the Sudentenland and then Poland and then the rest unfolds as IOTL.

Still thinking things out a bit and willing to listen to the ideas of others.
 

NomadicSky

Banned
How does Austria-Hungary survive the first WW intact? I doubt a Central Powers victory would lead to the events that would allow for a nazi germany.
 
How does Austria-Hungary survive the first WW intact? I doubt a Central Powers victory would lead to the events that would allow for a nazi germany.

No Central Powers victory here. I'm considering that the Austrians seek a armistice with the Allies in mid-1917 which is accepted. The Germans continue to fight on, but eventually collapse in 1918.
 
Why would Austria-Hungary sign an armistance if they are in a better position in the war?

From Vienna's POV with the defeat and occupation of Serbia the war objectives have been met. The long view by Kaiser Karl would be that with the defeat of Serbia and Italy, and their withdraw from the war (at least Serbia's) the reasons for continueing the war are no longer there. Russia is never going to be subdued, it can only be fought to a stand still and another armistice signed with it. The Austrians have no reason for eastward expansion - no matter what the Hungarians say.

Undoubtedly, Romania may enter the war in an effort to get Transylvania, but it just might stay out once Serbia is defeated. The Italian front may be more static until the Italians receive additional Allied troops. But it would be necessary to forcibly eject the Italian Navy from the Adriatic and threaten cities along the entire coast in order to come to a cease fire.

One reason that I've concentrated on the Austrians doing better is to make them less dependent upon Germany. To keep them more as two equals in league during the war and not one entirely dominating the other.
 
Timeline

1904
Johann Puch’s First Styrian Bicycle AG rolls out its first automobiles in Graz, Austria.
AH Navy decides to change from its traditional policy of three ships per division to four ships.
Founding of the Austrian Navy League.

1905
Laurin & Klement in Mlada Boleslav, Bohemia, begin building automobiles.
Skoda Works receives contract to develop a larger caliber guns for various classes of ships. Development of a 15cm (5.9in) gun for cruisers and a 12cm (4.7in) gun for destroyers begin.

1906
Radetzky class (4 ships) ordered as all-big-gun battleship.
Austro-Daimler (the AH subsidiary of Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft) recruits Ferdinand Porsche to be their chief designer.
Jacob Lohner Werke und Sohn (Lohner) beginning building reconnaissance aircraft for the Austro-Hungarian Army.

Radetzky class (1906)
Radetzky, Erherzog Franz Ferdinand, Zrinyi, Hess
14,508 tons
6-12in (2x2, 2x1), 16-3.9in

1907
General: The Austrian-Lloyd Line begins conducting pleasure cruises.

1908
General: AH annexes Bosnia-Hercegovina.
AH Navy adopts the 15cm gun.
Archduke Franz Ferdinand becomes patron of the AH Navy League.

AH Navy orders the cruiser/scout:

Admiral Spaun (1908)
3500 tons
7-3.9in
Armament modified in 1912 to 2-5.9in, 4-3.9in.

1909
Admiral Montecuccoli arranges the sale of the coastal defense ships Monarch, Wien and Budapest to the Netherlands.
K.u.K. Army establishes a new airship base at Fischamend.

1910
Austro-Daimler, under Porsche’s leadership, becomes independent of DMG and is renamed Austrian Daimler Engines AG.
October. AH dreadnoughts Viribus Unitis and Tegetthoff laid down.

Tegetthoff class (1910-1912)
Tegetthoff, Viribus Unitis, Prinz Eugen, Szent Istvan
20,013 tons
12-12om (4x3), 12-5.9in

1911

AH Navy orders the cruisers:

Helgoland class (1911)
Helgoland, Saida, Novara
3500 tons
1-5.9in, 7-3.9in
Armament modified in 1913 to 6-5.9in.

1912
Austrian occupation of Valona during the First Balkan War in order to protect Austrian interests, including Saseno island. Independent Albania formed.
Formation of the Imperial and Royal Aviation Troops.
January. AH dreadnoughts Prinz Eugen and Szent Istvan laid down.
Spring. First informal talks between the General Staffs of Germany and Austria-Hungary to coordinate their military response to Russia in the eventuality of war.
May. AH dreadnoughts Kaiser Franz Josef and Don Juan d’Austria laid down.

Kaiser Franz Josef (1912-1915)
Kaiser Franz Josef, Don Juan d’Austria, Laudon, Hunyadi
24,500 tons
10-13.8in (2x2, 2x3), 15-5.9in

1913
General: Treaty of Bucharest ends the Second Balkan War.
Winter. Formal plans and timetables drafted to coordinate German and Austro-Hungarian deployments facing Russia. (At no time does Vienna have an idea of the scope of the German plans regarding their opening offensive against France.)
February 1. AH Navy orders five u-boats (U7-11) from the Germania Shipyard in Kiel.
 
Maybe I misunderstood - but you're saying Austria beats Serbia, then cedes territory (Bosnia) to Serbia. That doesn't seem quite right to me?
 
Maybe I misunderstood - but you're saying Austria beats Serbia, then cedes territory (Bosnia) to Serbia. That doesn't seem quite right to me?

I've changed my mind about the ceding Bosnia-Hercegovina to Serbia - so your initial reading of the initial idea isn't wrong.
 
Austria was at the time pretty much under Germany's thumb, I doubt they'd betray their allies and seek peace.

Reading 'Caporetto 1917' doesn't give that impression. Dependent and there had been an agreement that German would be the first among equals sorts. But I strongly doubt that the AH General Staff would have considered itself 'under Germany's thumb'.

There was a good deal of animosity between both General Staffs. Would Kaiser Karl have sought a seperate peace if possible to save his empire? Yes and historically he did.
 
A don't foresee Austria-Hungary surviving in a negotiated peace unless they part with Galicia. In fact, I could see them keeping Bosnia before keeping Galicia, possibly becoming Austria-Hungary-(Greater) Croatia.
 
A don't foresee Austria-Hungary surviving in a negotiated peace unless they part with Galicia. In fact, I could see them keeping Bosnia before keeping Galicia, possibly becoming Austria-Hungary-(Greater) Croatia.

Not to mention they'd lose territory to Italy, and would probably have to concede the Czech lands for a Czech national state.
 
Perhaps it's just me, but I feel like you need to go back further. I believe that realistically the only way to have Austria-Hungary legitimately survive a WWI is to have Crown Prince Rudolph survive, and have him either convince his father to restructure the empire or have him do it himself if Franz Joseph dies early. Of course this means that WWI will look radicially different as the assassination of Franz Ferdinand is likely butterflied away.
 
Perhaps it's just me, but I feel like you need to go back further. I believe that realistically the only way to have Austria-Hungary legitimately survive a WWI is to have Crown Prince Rudolph survive, and have him either convince his father to restructure the empire or have him do it himself if Franz Joseph dies early. Of course this means that WWI will look radicially different as the assassination of Franz Ferdinand is likely butterflied away.

That would have put the WI in the Pre-1900 Forum. The major obstacle to reforms are the Hungarians and I'm a little at a loss on how to humble them. Tho the spector of a Communist Russia nearby could be a way to scare them into line.
 
1914
January. AH dreadnought Laudon laid down.
February 7. Wilhelm of Wied accepts the throne of Albania.
February 14. Principality of Albania formed.
May. AH dreadnought Hunyadi laid down.
June 20. Engine problems ground the Austrian airship MIII.
June 28. Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife in Sarajevo.
July 28. AH declaration of war on Serbia.
August-September AH victorious in opening campaign against Russians. Slow retreat to fortified positions. Lemberg evacuated in orderly fashion. Russians to be allowed to attack while AH goes on defensive. Portions of Army later moved to attack Serbia. Coordinated actions between German and Austrian commands along the Russian Front reap rewards.
August. AH begins blockade of Montenegro.
August 6. AH declares war on Russia.
August 12. Great Britain and France declare war on AH.
September 3, 1914 Wilhelm is forced to flee Durres for Valona following a pan-Islamic revolt.
September 14. Allied attempt to seize the island of Corfu disrupted by the presence of an AH minefield.
November. AH enter Belgrade.
November 1. Second Battle of Lissa between French and AH naval forces. French naval forces repulsed and forced to withdraw with the loss of the armoured cruiser Jules Ferry.
Fall AH battleships Kaiser Franz Josef and Laudon enter service
November 28. Decision to sell Austrian U-boats U7-11 to Germany reversed. Austrians crews will serve with the Reichsmarine in the North Sea.
December 6. Bulgaria joins the Central Powers and attacks Serbia.
December 20. French submarine Curie is sunk while attempting to enter the harbor of the AH naval base at Pola. Eventually salvaged and commissioned into the AH Navy as the U-14.
December 21. AH submarine U-12 torpedoes the French dreadnought Jean Bart off Antivari. The French dreadnought is able to limp to port, but the French navy withdraws all capital ships from the Adriatic.

1915
General: Josef und Franz Werndl and Company, Steyr, Austria, rolls out its first automobile.
Italian efforts to seize Durres, Albania blocked by Austro-Hungarian forces and minefield.
April 21. French armoured cruiser Leon Gambetta sunk by AH U-5, under the command of Georg Trapp in the Ionian Sea.
April 26. Italy signs Treaty of London.
May 4. Italy abrogates Triple Alliance.
May 13. German U-Boat U-21, under Hersing, sails from Wilhelmshaven to Valona. It had traveled the long and dangerous journey without enemy interference and demonstrated that submarines of this size could well venture into the Mediterranean. Plans are made to transfer all six AH U-boats from the North Sea to the Mediterranean.
May 23. Italy declares war upon the AH. AH adopts in depth defensive positions along the Isonzo River and the high Alps. First raids carried out by AH naval forces along the Italian coast.
June. AH begins submarine campaign against Italy.
July 7. AH submarine U-26 (aka German UB-14) sinks the Italian armoured cruiser Amalfi.
July 18. AH submarine U-4 sinks the Italian armoured crusier Giuseppe Garibaldi.
July 23-28. The Naval Battle of Pelagosa.
October 14. Georg Trapp is given command of the U-14.
October 29. Ottoman Empire joins the Central Powers.
September 27. Italian pre-dreadnought Benedetto Brin sunk at Brinidisi by Austrian sabotage.
December. The attempted evacuation of the Serbian army from Durres to allied Corfu. AH naval forces at Valona and Cattaro block allied attempts.
December 28. AH forces begin besieging Durres.
 
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