Bad AH you just HATE!

I'm certain that all of us here has come across some form of alternate history with some type of idea so fundamentally flawed it makes you want to scream. My question is: what is it, and why?

For me, it's anything involving a long-term Nazi-Soviet alliance based on cooperation. Both of these two sides HATED each other, and both only used the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact as a way to deal with their secondary goals quickly while both sides plotted to screw one another over at a later date. Hitler just got in first.
 
I do hate this Risiko-Style empire building. Like "the germans win europe, than have power to invade england-goin to arabia and india...."
As if anybody after Alexander the great would have done that!!!!
Even Napolen, even if he tried hard, could not make europe a great france.
People are peolpe and cannot be efficiantly supressed for long.
 
The Man in the High Castle's main point--Axis takeover and divisions of the USA--is only plausible if every American leader and the US general public have their heads stuck somewhere anatomically-impossible for decades on end. And the Axis leaders are all geniuses.

The Domination is equally unrealistic, but it's concept is much more creative.

Granted, I have not read The Man in the High Castle, so perhaps its plot, characters, etc. will do for it what Stirling's creativity and writing skill did for The Domination--overcome the sheer unlikelihood of the premise.
 
Matt Quinn said:
The Man in the High Castle's main point--Axis takeover and divisions of the USA--is only plausible if every American leader and the US general public have their heads stuck somewhere anatomically-impossible for decades on end. And the Axis leaders are all geniuses.

The Domination is equally unrealistic, but it's concept is much more creative.

Granted, I have not read The Man in the High Castle, so perhaps its plot, characters, etc. will do for it what Stirling's creativity and writing skill did for The Domination--overcome the sheer unlikelihood of the premise.

Not really. THE MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE was one of the worst AH books I have ever read.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
The Man in the High Castle wasn't meant to be plausible. PKD acknowledges the implausibility of his creation by having his analogue, Hawthorne Abendsen - ie. the man in the high castle - craft an equally implausible novel, The Grasshopper Lies Heavy, about a Cold War-esque stalemate in a world divided by the British and the Americans. The Man in the High Castle was written largely to illustrate some of PKD's gnostic philosophy - the "alternate history" aspect (which most people concentrate upon) was just a plot device.
 
The United States of America.
I really hate it how they always turn up. Even with a POD in 1760 it is pretty damn unlikely it will be formed yet even with PODs back a thousand years you still get mention of rubbish like 'how would the United States react to the Byzantine control of all the oil areas in the 20th century?'
 
Leej said:
The United States of America.
I really hate it how they always turn up. Even with a POD in 1760 it is pretty damn unlikely it will be formed yet even with PODs back a thousand years you still get mention of rubbish like 'how would the United States react to the Byzantine control of all the oil areas in the 20th century?'

Oh great! Now I want to know how that one ends.
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
That Newt Gingrich book was a bit cringeworthy, especially the elite Germans being beaten off by some decrepit WW1 hero and a load of citizens with guns - very 2nd Amendment rules, see !

Grey Wolf
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
Oh and of course there's Harry Harrison, haha

Lets stop the ACW in the middle, all make friends and go and invade Ireland, lets have the British cavalry charge a couple of guns and forget there is such a thing as a FLANK ATTACK, lets have the US build super-ironclads and the British carry on as in OTL because they're dumb imperialists...and so on

Grey Wolf
 
The "super empire takes on the world and wins" scenario. As much as I do have a soft spot for certain civilizations, seeing them expand and/or survive as a major power is one thing; seeing them pretty much rule the world is completely implausible, unless you are playing Europa Universalis or something to that effect. In other words, the "Roman Empire survives and by 1500 everyone on Earth speaks Latin" (nothing wrong with the first premise, but the second one is, at least, very unrealistic), or "Napoleon's great-grandson rules over the entire Eurasia" timelines are generally going to be on my "ignore" list.

Generally any large empire with sufficiently ethnically, religiously, and culturally different populations within it fractured within generations of its founding - often even within lesser time. Even the empires that survived for a large time due to integrating various minorities into the social mainframe (think Roman Empire) ended up failing when their ability to effectively administer their territory and economy and to react to internal and external threats ended up being inferior to the demands of the age.
 
Amateur "Germany rules the Europe after winning WWII" scenario. Lot's of people forgets about the place named Los Alamos; IMHO, US would had have A-bomb in 1945, unless they had done somethining really stupid - and Germans wouldn't had a chance of obtaining it till, at least, 1950.
 
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midgardmetal said:
The "super empire takes on the world and wins" scenario. As much as I do have a soft spot for certain civilizations, seeing them expand and/or survive as a major power is one thing; seeing them pretty much rule the world is completely implausible, unless you are playing Europa Universalis or something to that effect. In other words, the "Roman Empire survives and by 1500 everyone on Earth speaks Latin" (nothing wrong with the first premise, but the second one is, at least, very unrealistic), or "Napoleon's great-grandson rules over the entire Eurasia" timelines are generally going to be on my "ignore" list.

Generally any large empire with sufficiently ethnically, religiously, and culturally different populations within it fractured within generations of its founding - often even within lesser time. Even the empires that survived for a large time due to integrating various minorities into the social mainframe (think Roman Empire) ended up failing when their ability to effectively administer their territory and economy and to react to internal and external threats ended up being inferior to the demands of the age.

That's why my successful Alexandrian civilization (inspired by Carl Sagan's WI in Cosmos) is not an empire but an ecumene or a loose world confederation reminiscent of the Greek city-states, more like the Holy Roman Empire than the Roman one in that the smaller states unite only when threatened by a larger one with imperial ambitions. Of course, this AH has Alexander survive his illness at Babylon...and campaign west, in Italy...
 
Leo Rutman's "Clash of Eagles," wherein Nazi Germany not only successfully invades Great Britain, but then trundles across the Atlantic to send its armies marching down New England and into New York. Um, no. Just. . .no. The entire premise is Sea Lion on crack.
 
I strongly dislike alternate history where they have a really strong confederacy after beating the union in the ACW. People seem to make the CSA uber-strong everytime.
 
I really hate the whole USA/British war ideas post-1812. Most, esp the books, seemed to be based on the premise of those evil nasty Brits wanting revenge for 1776/1812 or whatever with no real thought to the practical issues. Even the ideas of wars over the border with Canada never wash with me.
 
There are so many of them. It's rather the style of thought I object to, rather than any particular POD.

1. Anything involving super weapons or weapons systems. These usually either grossly overestimate the effects of such devices or ignore problems of production, raw materials, or what other thing would be omitted to make this.
2. Anything which rests on historical myth. eg, those threads which begin with the idea that Reconstruction or Versailles were acts of unspeakable something or other.
3. Threads which rest on a premise which (to be valid) would involve a completely different social, intellectual, or cultural background. eg, Nazi Germany is nice to the Slavs, June 1941.
4. Threads which rest on a very sketchy knowledge of an era.
5. Threads which begin by making one assumption, when this is challenged add another to defend it, when this is challenged add a third, and so on.
6. Grand strategy threads. Somebody once gave a joking explanation for the poor quality of WWI British generalship. Upper class children who showed military interests would be given toy soldiers to play with. Childlike, they would suck them, and the lead paint would damage their brains. In the same way, too many AH types seem to have played far too much RISK in their youth. You know the sort of thing- Rommel takes Egypt, then the Middle East, then Afghanistan, India, and South East Asia. You can hear the subconscious thought, "well, they'll have all of Asia by now so that's another seven armies."
7. Threads which overestimate the impact ot thinkers and writers or which believe that there are secrets of leadership which can be picked up from reading some manual.

I could mention many others...
 
The more I read this thread, I come to the conclusion-AH is bullshit!!!
My life was going the wrong way for decennials!!!!
 
DRAKA and anything else where it automatically assumed that all white South Africans are racist war-mongers who will do to the blacks what the Nazis did to the Jews given half a chance.
 
Gwendolyn Ingolfsson said:
Leo Rutman's "Clash of Eagles," wherein Nazi Germany not only successfully invades Great Britain, but then trundles across the Atlantic to send its armies marching down New England and into New York. Um, no. Just. . .no. The entire premise is Sea Lion on crack.

snorts coffee at screen through nose at mental image of rhinebarges sailing across the Atlantic

THAT HURT!
 
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