Caliphate centered in India

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I was reading a few months ago about the reasons why the Romans created the empire that united the Mediterranean, and I was struck by a few of them:
1. The location of the Apennine Peninsula in the middle of the Mediterranean.
2. The considerable human resources of the peninsula.
3. The technological power of the Romans.
And then I thought and realized that the Indian subcontinent is in the middle of the Islamic world, located from Morocco to Indonesia, it had proverbial riches, which were later seized by Great Britain, and the multitude of Indians is known even to children. I want to ask how the entire Subcontinent can accept Islam and a sultanate can be found there, which, like Rome in the Mediterranean civilization, will first establish complete control over the subcontinent, and finally - conquer the entire Islamic world, and what will be the consequences for it, the world and Europe?
 
If a Caliphate asserts itself in India, another will look after 'Mediterranean Islam'. The distances involved are simply too big, and the Canal of the Pharaohs simply cannot support the necessary traffic. Uniting the whole Indian subcontinent isn't exactly an easy task, nor is it easy to keep it together as a whole (it would be the first time such an endeavor fully succeeded).
The consequences are the usual question of 'however you want to make them', it's not jusst a butterfly stom, but a storm of butterfly hosts that happens here.
 
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Yeah the Mughals were caliphs so you can very much get an Indian caliphate- then if you have a tl where India is the only part of the Islamic world that doesn’t get colonised, you can get a version of the situation otl where most muslims recognised the ottoman claim to caliphate because there were so few viable other claimants.
 
India is in the middle of the Islamic World because of the expansion of the Islamic World taken by local actors. Even calling India the centre of the Islamic World obfuscates more than it reveals because it’s not a particularly mobilisable realm for an Islamic (or even Indic generally) power because of the widespread religious diversity.

This question has a lot of inbuilt smaller questions each deserving of their own thread such as more widespread Islam in india, an Indian sultanate having more explicit naval ambitions, an Indian sultanate completely controlling and centralising rule in the Indian subcontinent etc.

There is frankly too much going on here and it ignores the ideological differences between different Indian Islamic realms.

There are too many inbuilt assumptions in this thread concept to really tackle. Not least of which being the conflation of the Islamic world as something similar in ability to centralise and rule as the Mediterranean.
 
I want to ask how the entire Subcontinent can accept Islam
Hinduism lacks a single, monolithic religious authority unlike, for example, the well-organized Zoroastrian priesthood. This made mass-scale, top-down conversion very difficult across the Indian subcontinent. Along with that, over centuries, Hindu traditions in the Indian subcontinent absorbed and incorporated elements of Buddhism, Jainism, and local tribal beliefs. This adaptability is what allowed it to weather challenges and maintain its core over time, and attacking and dismantling this core is not going to be easy, as can be seen in OTL.
will first establish complete control over the subcontinent, and finally - conquer the entire Islamic world
The sheer distances and natural barriers (from deserts to mountain ranges) between India and far-reaching regions like Morocco would make unified political control incredibly difficult and Muslim powers like the Ottomans, Safavids, and various sultanates in North Africa possessed their own military might and wouldn't easily submit to a far-off Indian power. And finally, you would need an Indian empire/sultanate and its emperor/sultan ambitious enough along with powered by at least a few ASB golden fingers to achieve this.
 
The OP misunderstands the role of the Caliph within Islam, but I'm not up to issuing a lengthy correction. Suffice it to point out that starting in the 10th century, various dynasties in the Islamic states in Spain and North Africa did adopt the title "Caliph", most but not all of them Shiite, while the Baghdad Caliphate still existed. And after the Mongols destroyed Baghdad in the 13th century, the Mamluks set up their own version of the Abbasid Caliphate in Cairo, and then later the Ottoman Sultans took over the office.

There was no reason for the various Delhi sultanates, or the various Deccan states (a couple of them Shiite) not to do something like this. None of them saw the need to, probably indicating that if any of them tried, it would have had no effect beyond changing some of the prayers in the local mosques.
 
India is in the middle of the Islamic World because of the expansion of the Islamic World taken by local actors. Even calling India the centre of the Islamic World obfuscates more than it reveals because it’s not a particularly mobilisable realm for an Islamic (or even Indic generally) power because of the widespread religious diversity.

This question has a lot of inbuilt smaller questions each deserving of their own thread such as more widespread Islam in india, an Indian sultanate having more explicit naval ambitions, an Indian sultanate completely controlling and centralising rule in the Indian subcontinent etc.

There is frankly too much going on here and it ignores the ideological differences between different Indian Islamic realms.

There are too many inbuilt assumptions in this thread concept to really tackle. Not least of which being the conflation of the Islamic world as something similar in ability to centralise and rule as the Mediterranean.
The Ottoman Empire was created by a small beylik, by a close-knit and closed male society, and for several centuries created the potential for the conquest of vast territories. There may also arise in India such a small, closed and warlike sultanate, which in the course of time will receive the enormous potential of the Indian subcontinent and successfully use it to conquer the Islamic world and spread Islam - first in Buddhist Burma (today's Myanmar). One of the religions of India is Sikhism - a hybrid religion between Hinduism and Islam.
 
Ban
Hinduism lacks a single, monolithic religious authority unlike, for example, the well-organized Zoroastrian priesthood. This made mass-scale, top-down conversion very difficult across the Indian subcontinent. Along with that, over centuries, Hindu traditions in the Indian subcontinent absorbed and incorporated elements of Buddhism, Jainism, and local tribal beliefs. This adaptability is what allowed it to weather challenges and maintain its core over time, and attacking and dismantling this core is not going to be easy, as can be seen in OTL.

The sheer distances and natural barriers (from deserts to mountain ranges) between India and far-reaching regions like Morocco would make unified political control incredibly difficult and Muslim powers like the Ottomans, Safavids, and various sultanates in North Africa possessed their own military might and wouldn't easily submit to a far-off Indian power. And finally, you would need an Indian empire/sultanate and its emperor/sultan ambitious enough along with powered by at least a few ASB golden fingers to achieve this.
One of the religions of India is Sikhism - a hybrid religion between Hinduism and Islam. There was also the so-called Greater India, which covered not only the subcontinent but also Southeast Asia, but it accepted Buddhism or Islam, and outside the subcontinent there was a Hindu majority only in Bali. The reason for this is the greater justice of these religions than Hinduism - the absence of a caste system, the greater respect for women - the absence of rituals such as Sati, where a widow was burned with her husband, rape as punishment for "crimes against honor " committed by male relatives, that you don't have to have a son to perform your funeral rites (and Islam condemns female infanticide, unlike Hinduism), and more. For example, the famous Angkor Wat Buddhist temple in Cambodia was built as a Hindu temple, and in the early years after independence, under the influence of the Dalit rights movement, Buddhism in India was revived. And I believe that under certain circumstances the process could have extended to the complete destruction of Hinduism, and in favor of Islam alone. Separately, the Thracian-Greco-Roman paganism itself (the fact that many of the Greek gods, and the most important ones were Thracian, is little known) was not monolithic - one of the reasons why Ancient Greece did not become a single state even after it was conquered of Alexander the Great were precisely the various local gods that could not be worshiped by those belonging to different polises. And since I was inspired for this discussion by the Roman Empire, I thought of the abduction of the Sabian women by Romulus and his men, and at the beginning of the Islamic Hindustan Empire there may be a morally opposite myth - how young men rebelled and fled from civilization dalits convert to Islam among the first in the subcontinent under the influence of some preacher and subsequently find themselves as wives of young girls whose lives and/or honor they save from their mushrik fathers, brothers and relatives - regardless of whether they have been "sentenced" to rape by a tribal court and/or they had to throw themselves on the funeral pyres of their husbands, becoming their loving and pious Muslim wives and mothers of their children.
 
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There was no reason for the various Delhi sultanates, or the various Deccan states (a couple of them Shiite) not to do something like this. None of them saw the need to, probably indicating that if any of them tried, it would have had no effect beyond changing some of the prayers in the local mosques.
On the contrary, from the 15th century onwards the title caliph was claimed by the Mughals and Suris- the bahmanis and later Deccan sultanates usually accepted Safavid claims to caliphate.

The Mughal claim to caliphate was also understood as of course extending to all Muslims, but really and properly to all creation, human and non human, given that the caliph was the axis of the world, shadow of god etc.



One of the religions of India is Sikhism - a hybrid religion between Hinduism and Islam.
That’s not really a great way of looking at it- at most I’d say it’s a nirguna tradition that adopted the political organisation of a Sufi tariqa.

The model of conversion to Islam as escaping caste oppression doesn’t really explain the otl dynamics of conversion- if that was true, you’d expect conversion to have been highest in places where the caste system was strongest, and therefore oppression was worse. In reality mass conversion happened in the periphery of the subcontinent, in places that had been weakly if at all integrated into caste based civilisation. The caste system, terrible as it was, had a religiously stabilising influence all told, as you could enforce social ostracism on converts. Also otl Dalit converts to Islam, Buddhism, Christianity whatever, are still treated as Dalits by other Muslims, buddhists and Christians in their local areas.
 
Predicting the complete destruction of Hinduism in favor of Islam is speculative and doesn't consider the historical complexities, diversity, and resilience of religious traditions. And you have mixed too many separate things here, some of which are not even related to the context
I'll point out a few historical facts:
> The end of Hinduism in SEA (it still lives though) was a gradual process, first, the region although quite vast was not like the subcontinent where successive polities held out against Islam, the faith itself was centered around the rulers and often resulted in the populace following the conversion of their monarchs
> You are forgetting how Sati was born and who caused its birth in the first place, I don't support the practice but those who first committed its original form were perhaps the bravest women
> Female infanticide is absolutely horrifying but why are you bringing the modern problems of India into medieval context, otherwise there are a lot of other horrible practices too and I can make a whole list of them
 
On the contrary, from the 15th century onwards the title caliph was claimed by the Mughals and Suris- the bahmanis and later Deccan sultanates usually accepted Safavid claims to caliphate.
I think one of the main reasons is that, for much of their history, Muslim sultanates in India coexisted with powerful Caliphates – first the Abbasids in Baghdad, then the Mamluks in Cairo, and eventually the Ottomans. Challenging these established centers of religious and political authority would have been difficult and potentially destabilizing and while many Indian sultanates were Sunni, claiming the Caliphate would potentially alienate their Shia subjects or create tensions with powerful Shia empires such as the Safavids.
 
I think the earlier the better, since India had about a century of Chaos between the death of Harsha in 647 and Lalitaditya/Yashovarman around 750.

But this would mean deemphasizing the Byzantine wars by sending the 100k troops of 717 siege of Constantinople to India instead.

OTL, the Caliphate's governor of Eastern Arabia first started raiding the Indian coasts, as far as Thane in the 630s. But Umar ibn alKhattab stopped them, due to his dislike of Naval campaigns.
In 644 the Battle of Rasil occurred, on the Hub river close to modern Karachi. But the army sent back a report that Makran was extremely desolate and barren and for some reason, they said Sindh was even worse. This misinformation prevented them from pressing on to Sindh proper.

Thereafter, Qusdar/Khuzdar, a city controlling the Bolan mountain pass between Sistan and Sindh was taken in the reign of Muawiyah, but no campaigns save small reconnaissance missions were sent to Sindh.
Instead, the Caliphate was much more focused on the much poorer and far more difficult invasion of Zabulistan and Kabul, which resulted in repeated and humiliating failure and losses of thousands of men.

Until finally in 711 alHajjaj sent a proper campaign under Muhammad alQasim, with a relatively small force of 15,000. After 2 years taking Sindh, with further campaigns deep into Punjab, reaching the Himalayan foothills. Bringing in a staggering 600 million dirhams.
A decade later, a new governor, Junayd alMurri greatly expanded Muslim domains, taking Rajasthan, most of Gujarat, some of Haryana and pushing into Madhya Pradesh. Bringing in 400 million dirhams.
But he left for Khurasan, his replacement Tamim lost all his gains and even lost Sindh itself. So a new replacement was sent, Hakam ibn Awana who retook Sindh, established Mansura/Brahmanabad and reconquered Junayd's conquest until 738 at the Battle of Navsari near the Maharashtra border, with the newly emerging Pratihara empire, where he lost, partly due to manpower shortages. Subsequently all his conquests were again lost, and even Sindh was threatened. After that, the abbasids took over, who no longer had expansionist zeal, and Muslim expansion stopped for 300 years until the Ghaznavids.


The Conquest:​



So PoD would be that in 644 the expedition in Rasil reports about the immense wealth of Sindh and India beyond it. So that the Caliphate recognises that it is the richest of all its frontiers by far, and so should receive manpower and resources equivalent to its riches.
Thus, no attempt are made on Zabulistan/Kabul, Sistan being entirely defensive.
Similarly the strange offensive policy of attempting to raid the Khazar steppe would also be prevented. Instead establishing defensive garrisons at Derbent and Tbilisi/Darial to prevent Khazar incursions, but never going on the offensive, since nothing is gained.
In Central Asia expanding to Khwarezm and Chaghaniyan/Tokharistan. But adopting a more defensive approach to Sogdia due to the Turgesh Turks.
Against the Romans, being less brazenly offensive, instead of raids deep into Anatolia, where logistics are stretched and the army is vulnerable, attempting the much slower gradual annexation of fortress by fortress and city by city. Slowly pushing the frontier and creating bases of operations on the Anatolian plateau, making logistics far better. But this would be slow and more costly.
In the west, integrating the Berbers much better to allow even greater reliance on them, improving the manpower situation. And attempting gradual conquest of Sicily instead of 20 years of useless raids.

This far more defensive approach means far more troops are available for Indian campaigns.
After the Battle of Rasil, the Caliphate is still campaigning in eastern Iran against Sassanian remnants and rebellions. But as they die down, in 650 the Persian Gulf navy would take the coastal city of Daybul.
After the death of Yazdgerd in 651, around 10k men would be sent to Daybul, giving 15k in total. Who would then defeat the dynasty and take the capital by 653 and beginning to push towards Lahore. While tens of thousands of Bedouin, predominantly from eastern Arabia would begin to be transferred to the Thar desert, defeating the proto Rajput pastoralist nomads of the region. The completion of the Khurasani campaign in 654 would give further reinforcements. Marching on Thanesar in Haryana, the second capital of Harsha's recently disintegrated empire, taking it in 655 without too much resistance.
Finally in 656 taking Kannauj, the capital of all north India, probably without too much difficulty due to Harsha collapse. The riches of the city bringing in immense wealth to the Caliphate. In total the India campaign would probably bring in over a Billion Dirhams, bankrolling the rest of the Caliphate.

With Kannauj, the small statelets and chieftains of Bihar/Bengal and Madhya Pradesh are vulnerable, perhaps voluntarily submitting to Muslim controlled Kannauj. But by early 657 the assassination of Uthman and first fitnah would've reached the troops at Kannauj. Preventing any further campaigns and forcing them to go on the defensive for the next 4 years.
Polities in Bihar and Madhya Pradesh might be able to form a coalition and take advantage of Muslim weaknes perhaps pushing all the way to Kannauj and even besieging the city. But the instability of the coalition would eventually break the siege allowing the Muslim garrison to hold out. While in the Indus valley, the Turk Shahi of Peshawar would probably take much of Punjab up to Multan, reducing them to Sindh.
This precarious position would be ended after the end of the fitnah in 661, whereupon Muawiyah wouldn't focus on the Byzantines anywhere near as much as OTL, due to the Billions of dirhams obtained from India.
Sending around 35-40,000 troops to Sindh, to retake Punjab, and reinforce Kannauj. (OTL 50k were sent to Khurasan in 670) In total by 664 India would have around 60k-65k troops, around a third-quarter of the Caliphate's total manpower. Kannauj taking Bihar/ Western Bengal and Madhya Pradesh by 667. While Sindh takes Gujarat with help from the Gulf navy on the coasts at the same time. Ideally capturing the brilliant mathematicians Brahmagupta and Bhaskara i, moving them to Iraq where their mathematical works and Hindu numerals would be translated and adopted over a century earlier.

Beginning the Deccan campaigns, dominated by the Chalukyas of Badami under Vikramaditya I though contested by the Pallavas of Andhra Pradesh, who had recently occupied their capital for 13 years from 642 to 655. The Thar Bedouin would've already begun to push into the arid savanna of the western Deccan in the mid 660s. In 669 a more organised campaign would begin, the Sindhi/Gujarat army focusing on the western Deccan, while their navy attacks the Konkan coast. And Kannauj would focus more on central and western Deccan, assisted by the emerging Bengal navy. Perhaps Making an Alliance with Parameswaravarman of the Pallavas against the Chalukya.
Thus in 674, the Battle of Peruvalanallur (Tiruchirappalli) which OTL was a victory for the Pallavas despite being greatly outnumbered, would be much more divisive with the Caliphate's assistance. Probably slaying Vikramaditya I on the field. Thereafter Badami would be besieged, falling quite quickly due to the massive loss at Peruvalanallur. With its capture, the rest of the Chalukya realm would fall by 675. While the Pallavas would annex the eastern Chalukyas.
Though Badami is a little too southerly for Kannauj/Sindh to maintain. So a new Deccan capital might be founded further north near Aurangabad, since it's closer to the Muslim heartlands within India and is close to the coastal trading centre of Thane/Mumbai.

For now, the Pallavas would be left alone for their assistance against the Chalukya. Instead pushing south against the western Gangas and finally the Pandaya of Madurai.

After a decade, by 680 at Muawiyah's death, almost all the Deccan would've fallen. The many Billions of dirhams brought into by the Indian would probably make the Umayyads shift from isolated Damascus to Iraq, perhaps even Basra - the closest city in the fertile crescent to India, which would make the second fitnah a completely different story. Since Muawiyah would less focused on the Romans, Yazid may be sent to India instead, which would also have major ramifications on the 2nd fitnah, as would the east Arabian Bedouin migrations - perhaps preventing or significantly reducing the Najdat khawarij

But butterflies to the 2nd fitnah are difficult to predict. So I'm just assuming it'll happen similar to OTL. During the decade long civil war, rebellions would spring up all over India. The most significant of which led by the Pallavas in southern India, taking advantage of the civil war to rally former Chalukya nobles to its cause taking Badami and most of the Deccan for itself. But the more consolidated Indo-Gangetic's rebellions would be successfully put down.

After the civil war has ended, in 692 tens of thousands would be sent to reconquer the Deccan, including ibn alAshath and his peacock army. Giving over 100,000 troops in the whole of India. Taking Badami back in 694, then marching on the Pallava capital Kanchipuram, taking it in 696. Ending the last major independent state in India.

From there, strengthening the Gujarati/Kokan and Bengali navies to take the Malabar coastal cities and strengthen control over the Coromandel coast. Even establishing Muslim control over bits of coastal Sri Lanka. By the year 700. After 56 years of campaigns since the Battle of Rasil, India would be conquered. (Save for the mountainous and densely forested region of Odisha/ChotaNagpur - later perhaps being a base for Alid revolts against the Caliphate )



Development​





The Caliphate can now focus on developing India.
At the time, much of India was still covered in vast, dense forest or in other regions dominated by Pastoralists.
The Gupta empire had set in motion the first inklings of agricultural expansion, but it wouldn't take off until their medieval successor dynasties like the Pratihara empire or Pala empire in the seventh to tenth centuries.
ITTL, a unified and more centralised India would be able to carry out irrigation projects on much grander scales. Especially as Islamic law heavily incentivizes bringing barren land into cultivation, by halfing the tax rate. Resulting in huge Arab and Muslim migrations, as well as large population increases all throughout the subcontinent over the next century, With Kannauj reaching over 1 million people and rivaling Chang'an for position of the greatest city on earth.



After the campaigns are over the Bengali and Gujarati navies would be redesigned for a greater emphasis on trade, particularly the lucrative eastern trade with the Tang Dynasty and spice islands. Soon dominated by Muslims. Perhaps establishing a land connection with the Tang Dynasty from navigable Dibrugarh in Assam through the mountains of the kingdom of Nanzhao (Yunnan) until reaching Chengdu in Sichuan. Which would increase contact between the Indian and Chinese worlds. Ideally in advancements of rice cultivation and the highly developed 3 departments and 6 ministries system of Chinese administration. With Indian influences in Yunnan, Sichuan and Guizhou, as well as Chinese influences in Assam and Bengal. Though the difficulty of the terrain may make the route unfeasible...

In South East Asia, Islam would begin to emerge in the ports cities, as Indian Ocean trade increases in volume. Challenging the Hinduism and Buddhism of the region, which were still in fairly early stages in the region. Eventually a Chola style invasion could occur, thus the Caliphate itself extending all the way to SEA. Though the region was still dominated by thick rainforests, with major agricultural expansion not occuring until the mid-late medieval period. So the Caliphate would be able to greatly speed this process, making SEA much more prosperous, populous and thereby far more influential on a world stage centuries earlier.

Due to the sheer distances, most connection between India and the middle east would be done by the navy. Particularly the Hajj, with Jeddah becoming a large port much sooner. Similarly, Yemen being much more important than OTL due to its strategic location on the maritime routes. Also extending to Ethiopia with the remnants of Axum and the emerging Harla kingdom and Shewa Sultanate.



The riches of India, the agricultural expansion and trade would encourage massive Arab settlement throughout India, including many Umayyad princes.
With many of its cities surpassing Kufa and Basra as the intellectual centres of Islam. With these Indian cities producing Madhabs, qira'aat, schools of grammar, hadeeth narrators, poets, geographers, historians, scientists etc, throughout the 8th century. Thus not only being the economic heart, but also the intellectual heart of the entire Muslim world. With students from across the Muslim world travelling to study in India. (Basically TTL's India is equivalent to OTL Iraq+Persia)
ITTL, Persia's impact on the Muslim world would be significantly less than OTL.

Potentially, the earlier islamification of SEA and its proximity of the intellectual behemoth of India, would mean it's Muslim scholars are far more influential on Islam as a whole, with works written by them being studied throughout the Muslim world.

Similarly, greater Indian Ocean trade dominated by Muslims would mean more Muslim settlement in Guangzhou, Yangzhou and other ports of China. Perhaps even venturing as far as Korea and Japan. While in the west, earlier and more extensive Muslim settlement along the Swahili coast - being a much more influential part of the Muslim world due to that.

Soon, the Indian Ocean would become a Muslim lake, centred on Caliphal India.








The West:





Meanwhile, in the west, campaigns would be undertaken mostly for strategic reasons - to protect the Egypt and Levant from Mediterranean invasions, since any wealth gained from the conquest of the Maghreb or Iberia would be trivial compared to the immense wealth of India. Said wealth would be used to make the conquests easier, paying off and bribing nobles and influentials to willingly join the side of the Caliphate. Such as the Soghdian merchants, Armenian/Anatolian lords, Berber chiefs or Khans of the steppes etc.

Due to the majority of Arab manpower being tied up in distant India, the western campaigns would be even more dominated by Berbers than OTL, with the increased wealth allowing the equipment and training of far more Berbers, giving much more manpower in the west (OTL Berber revolt 300,000 are said to have fought against the Arabs, but most didn't have armour or weapons). This heavy dependence on the berbers would mean the Umayyads would need to treat them much better, the Caliphate's increased wealth would allow them to pay the Berbers much higher salaries, ideally preventing revolt.
But on the whole, without significant Arab settlement in the west and the focus on India Caliphate would neglect the west even more than OTL, soon slipping away into an independent Berber empire, stretching from Tripoli to the Pyrenees, though nominally loyal to the Caliphate. Basically alMohads but 400 years earlier.
The lack of the 740 Berber revolt, would mean Alfonso I is unable to take advantage of the chaos to expand into Galicia and upper Duero valley (regions primarily garrisoned by Berbers who left their posts in the revolt). And Iberia would be probably be more stable, since there isn't a small Arab ruling class dominating the Berber (later Muwallad) Muslim majority. Similarly, Iberia would be permanently attached to the Maghreb unlike OTL during the 350 year gap between the Berber revolt and the AlMoravids. Which caused tensions between the Andalusis and the Berbers, a factor in the Berber sack of Cordoba in 1013.
The lack of the revolt, greater stability/cohesion and increased manpower due to the Maghreb means that Septimania wouldn't fall to the Franks in the 750s. This would mean the Franks would be the main enemy, not Asturias, with almost annual summer raids against the Franks, and control over Gijon and the Asturias coast means Andalusi pirates in the Atlantic. Thus Andalus would have far more direct contact and impact/influence with western and northern Europe than OTL.
In the reign of Charlemagne Andalus would likely be put on the defensive, perhaps temporarily losing Septimania, though probably able to hold the line at the Pyrenees passes, preventing Iberian incursions. But with accession of the weaker Louis the Pious, they would be able to go on the offensive once more. As Frankia gets weaker and weaker over the decades, having greater success. By the late 800s, with the Vikings terrorising the north, and the state collapsing, Andalus would probably annex most of Aquitaine and the Rhine valley. Greatly changing Western European history. Assuming France regains it's strength, they would be a gradual reconquista, pushing the Muslims back to the Pyrenees. But by this time, Iberia would be quite thoroughly islamicizied. (Faster than OTL due to continuous Berber migrations from Maghreb). So there would be no reconquista of Iberia.

Similarly without the Berber revolt Sicily may be conquered earlier. Ideally, they would attempt the gradual conquest on their first landing on the island in 704. But if not, then after 30 years of raiding, in 740, Habib ibn Abi Ubayda al-Fihri finally led a campaign to conquer the island. But was prevented from doing so by the Berber revolt. ITTL, without the revolt that conquest could occur. Unlike the Aghlabid conquest in the mid 800s, the Byzantines are much weaker, still reeling from the Islamic conquests, perhaps allowing more lasting conquests in Apulia and Calabria.

With Sicily, the Berbers would control the entire western Mediterranean. With Caliphal attention they could extend further east, to Cyrenaica and perhaps the Berbers of the Siwa oasis near Egypt. OTL Andalusi pirates took Alexandria in the 820s and then Crete, so this could be possible ITTL, extending Berber power deep into the eastern Med as well...

Due to the heartland of Islam being in India, many Berber students would travel the immense distance, halfway across the world to study in the great intellectual centres of India, bringing this knowledge back to the west. Due to their annexation of southern France, western Europe would be directly impacted by Indians far more than OTL. Perhaps a few Christians or Jews of Southern France travelling through the Pax Islamica all the way to India.







The decline of the middle east:​




With the climatic catastrophe of 920-1070 throughout the middle east, there would be mass migration of middle easterners to the unaffected regions of India as well as SEA, further increasing those region's islamification. While the middle east would be somewhat abandoned.
The Turkic nomads taking over Khurasan, northern Persia, Caucasia and Anatolia, desperately searching for pastures due to climatic problems in the steppe. With the Berbers in the west, taking over much Egypt and the Levant, able to supply them with Ifriqiyan and Sicilian grain in wake of the Eastern Mediterranean drought - as Fatimids did OTL, but this time controlling the majority of the entire Mediterranean.

The Caliphate definitively relocating to India due to Baghdad literally freezing over, even snowing in Basra....
Though it's navy would use the navigability of the Tigris-Euphrates to maintain some control over Iraq, preventing the nomads from completely ravaging it and the Persian gulf ports to protect Fars and southern Persia. Similarly in Egypt the Berbers would initially still be nominally loyal to the Caliph, with the port of Suez/Clysma still under Caliphal control, perhaps sending Indian grain barges to help when the Egyptian situation reaches its worst levels in the early-mid 1000s.

By the time the climatic troubles end in 1060-1070, agriculture would've drastically declined throughout most of northern Persia, replaced by nomadism. While the Berbers would've firmly unified much of the Mediterranean under their empire no longer nominally loyal anymore, perhaps with their own Caliph due to the distance of the Indian Caliph, but probably not actively hostile. The Indian Caliph would still have some influence over Egypt due to the important Indian grain barges and the economic benefits of its IO trade.

The Indian based caliphate would use the return to climatic normalcy to revitalise the agricultural systems of Iraq. Using Iraq and southern to gradually exert control over the nomads of the north. Though, if the Mongol invasions still occur, then another round of mass migration to India would happen....
But Iraq would largely be a distant frontier on the edge of the Caliphate. It's attentions more focused on the agricultural, demographic and economic expansion of SEA, gaining a boost via the migration of hundreds of thousands of middle eastern refugees.

Perhaps, during the 5 Dynasties 10 kingdoms period, the Caliphate attempting to exert direct influence over the Chinese coasts. Initially helping the Vietnamese in the Battle of Bạch Đằng. Then supporting/vassalizing the kingdoms of the southern Chinese coasts: Southern Han, Wuyue and Min via the formidable Caliphal navy operating out of ports on Taiwan and Luzon. Investing in their shipyards and fleets, using them to raid the northern Chinese coast, perhaps even raiding up the Yellow and Yangtze rivers.
While on land supporting the Great Shu of Sichuan, via Yunnan, which would be vassalized in the wake of Nanzhao collapse.
Leading to a naval arms race between the southern Chinese supported by the Caliphate and Song Dynasty of the northern plain.
Though I'm not knowledgeable enough in Chinese history to know the effects of this...


Overall, the Muslim world would be split by the Mediterranean based Berber Caliphate and the eastern Indian Ocean Caliphate.
 
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I was reading a few months ago about the reasons why the Romans created the empire that united the Mediterranean, and I was struck by a few of them:
1. The location of the Apennine Peninsula in the middle of the Mediterranean.
2. The considerable human resources of the peninsula.
3. The technological power of the Romans.
And then I thought and realized that the Indian subcontinent is in the middle of the Islamic world, located from Morocco to Indonesia, it had proverbial riches, which were later seized by Great Britain, and the multitude of Indians is known even to children. I want to ask how the entire Subcontinent can accept Islam and a sultanate can be found there, which, like Rome in the Mediterranean civilization, will first establish complete control over the subcontinent, and finally - conquer the entire Islamic world, and what will be the consequences for it, the world and Europe?
How about a considerably more successful Sayyid dynasty? I doubt it would be a "true" caliphate, but yeah. Maybe they develop some kind of rivalry with the Ottomans as the turks try and extend their influence into the indian ocean, reject the Ottomans' claim using their blood descent to Muhammad..?
 
One main thing that is ignored here is that India alone is extremely rich to be its own empire without the need of empire compared to Italian Peninsula.
Assuming India is under Islamic control and is Islamized, It would be its own power with outposts across Indian Ocean being the most likely scenario
 
One main thing that is ignored here is that India alone is extremely rich to be its own empire without the need of empire compared to Italian Peninsula.
Assuming India is under Islamic control and is Islamized, It would be its own power with outposts across Indian Ocean being the most likely scenario
Agreed, as mentioned by Madhukar Shah above, the Mughal Empire was already an India centered Caliphate. The issue, I think, is that OP wants the Indian caliphate to be acknowledged as a leader by Muslims in West Asia and North Africa, which I'm not sure is feasible.

Edit: W.r.t size, the Indian subcontinent in total is just over 4 million sq. km. while Google tells me the peak Roman Empire was around 7.5 million sq. km. so perhaps a conquest of Indonesia by the Mughals would have made it equivalent in size and much larger in population.
 
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Agreed, as mentioned by Madhukar Shah above, the Mughal Empire was already an India centered Caliphate. The issue, I think, is that OP wants the Indian caliphate to be acknowledged as a leader by Muslims in West Asia and North Africa, which I'm not sure is feasible.

Edit: W.r.t size, the Indian subcontinent in total is just over 4 million sq. km. while Google tells me the peak Roman Empire was around 7.5 million sq. km. so perhaps a conquest of Indonesia by the Mughals would have made it equivalent in size and much larger in population.
Indian Cultural zone would include everywhere from Eastern Afghanistan to Sri Lank to Arakan mountain range.
You are right it would be smaller than Roman empire, but would have more population and wealthier regions than rome
 

CalBear

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One of the religions of India is Sikhism - a hybrid religion between Hinduism and Islam. There was also the so-called Greater India, which covered not only the subcontinent but also Southeast Asia, but it accepted Buddhism or Islam, and outside the subcontinent there was a Hindu majority only in Bali. The reason for this is the greater justice of these religions than Hinduism - the absence of a caste system, the greater respect for women - the absence of rituals such as Sati, where a widow was burned with her husband, rape as punishment for "crimes against honor " committed by male relatives, that you don't have to have a son to perform your funeral rites (and Islam condemns female infanticide, unlike Hinduism), and more. For example, the famous Angkor Wat Buddhist temple in Cambodia was built as a Hindu temple, and in the early years after independence, under the influence of the Dalit rights movement, Buddhism in India was revived. And I believe that under certain circumstances the process could have extended to the complete destruction of Hinduism, and in favor of Islam alone. Separately, the Thracian-Greco-Roman paganism itself (the fact that many of the Greek gods, and the most important ones were Thracian, is little known) was not monolithic - one of the reasons why Ancient Greece did not become a single state even after it was conquered of Alexander the Great were precisely the various local gods that could not be worshiped by those belonging to different polises. And since I was inspired for this discussion by the Roman Empire, I thought of the abduction of the Sabian women by Romulus and his men, and at the beginning of the Islamic Hindustan Empire there may be a morally opposite myth - how young men rebelled and fled from civilization dalits convert to Islam among the first in the subcontinent under the influence of some preacher and subsequently find themselves as wives of young girls whose lives and/or honor they save from their mushrik fathers, brothers and relatives - regardless of whether they have been "sentenced" to rape by a tribal court and/or they had to throw themselves on the funeral pyres of their husbands, becoming their loving and pious Muslim wives and mothers of their children.
WTF?

Thank you for finally confirming what many member had long suspected (based on reports).

Rolling a pile of half truths and complete fantasy into Hate Speech is unacceptable here

To Coventry with you.
 
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