Challenge: Different Allies in WWI, part 2: France and Germany

Susano

Banned
Im unsure where to post this, but as the OTL Great War happened in the 20th century, Ill place the thread here.

So, in the spirit of Highlanders thread, lets try the most unlikely Alliance: France and Germany. The challenge is to have France and Germany fight Great Britain, with the other powers taking either side. With a PoD no earlier of, lets be generous, 1800.
 

Empror Mike

**cough**NapoleonneverinvadesRussiaorisotherwiseunstopped**cough

A Napoleonic-size France would probebly be a very influencial power in German politics, a counterweight to Austria.

At the bottom line, it all depends on your definition of "Germany".
I could see, somehow, that Austria and the Confederation of the Rhine carv-up Prussia between them, giving us a sort of "Germany."
In the next war with Britain, these "Germans" would be forced to join the French.
 

cra0422

I'd say that if Otto van Bismarck wasn't around and the Franco-Prussian War didn't occur, it might be possible.
 

Boom22

The Franco-Prussian war was caused by German sentiments from the Napolonic era because the Germans were forced to fight former allies to appease the French getting rid of Bismarck wouldn't solve this as the sentiment would still be there.
 

Homer

With a POD in 1800 anything can happen. Two short ideas:

1. Napoleon somehow wins. He transforms his Empire to a multinational entity, with great liberties for the different ethnics. He does not invade Russia, instead Russia invades and is defeated. In his old days, Napoleon transforms the Empire towards a more consitutional monarchy. 1830 Napoleon resigns, his son is elected "Roman empire" by the French national assembly and delegates of the Confederation of the Rhine. almost a century later, the Roman Empire fights a war against Britain and whoever you like.

2. In 1866, Italy is much better prepared than IOTL, as is Prussia. Austria is even weaker. No matter what the reasons are. The Prussian-Italian alliance wins very fast and decisively and imposes hard peace terms: Italy gets Venice, Dalmatia, Istria and Southern Tyrol, the rest of Tyrol becomes independent, Prussia gets Bohemia and Moravia, Russia is appeased by eastern Galicia. Large parts of Austria are occupied. Napoleon III. is surprised and reacts slowly and dumb. He demands large parts of western Germany, which alienates the smaller German states which just fought against Prussia. They ally with Prussia against France, France looses due to incompetent leadership. The Prussians however never reach Paris, the Emperor is caught quite early, a revolution takes place, Bismarck urges for a fast peace to end the uneasy situation with a still occupied/fighting Austria and an uneasy Russia. Essentially this turns the peace treaties of OTL: Austria gets the hard one and becomes an enemy of Prussia/Germany, France gets a light one and is in the following years won as an ally as Austria was IOTL.
 

Susano

Banned
The Rhine League is not Germany, and neither is Prussia. For Germany and France fighting on the same side, Germany should exist as state...Homers second point works fine, though, even if Im not quite sure that Prussia after such a war would actually create a German state - but if it does, it works.

And Boom, the Franco-German War was declared by the French (contrary to common conception) over the most silliest of slights and caused by Napoleon III.s general strategy of distracting from internal problems by foreign adventures, and because his plans for the German War of 1866 didnt work because Prussia won.
 

MariaTheresia

Susano said:
Germany should exist as state...
Click to expand...

Can that be a more diffuse state with Hanover, Saxony and Bavaria having only nominal ties to a federal state overseen by Prussia and in close diplomatic, military and economic alliance with Austria-Hungary?

WI this diffuse state does not go to war with France in 1870 and instead allies with her to compete with the empires of Russia and Britain on the word stage?

Perhaps a European Union of sorts develops with the core centering on France and Germany but including participants such as Austria-Hungary and (a more loosely defined) Italy?

Could this combined unit actually compete with the British Empire? Could it attract more and more states into its orbit? If it gathers clout, would it be a threat to Britain? Would it have a naval program? A colonial program?

How about if the Franco-German dominated EU spars with Britain over colonal, naval or trade issues around 1910?
 
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