Constantine and The Rise of Polytheism/Henotheism?

[Armylt12]

In 27 October 312, the two Armies of Constantine and his rival for the Roman Empire, Maxentius, met. There are two versions to this historical account. One account refers to Constantine receiving his sign from Christian god in a dream and the other is giving in a dream by the same god. We may never know which one it was, or if it even occured, but nevertheless Constantine left the battlefield victorious. Almost year later, Constantine creates the Edict of Milan which brings forth a radical and untraditional alliance with Christianity. Christianity, in fact, was considered to be legally practice, and the rest is history. Although, I'm thinking of a POD where Constantine did indeed win but never saw the professed sign, and then did as almost any other Roman traditionialist, henotheist did: keep hating the Christians and continued a path of henotheism/polytheism. Instead of totally embracing Christianity, he prevents it from becoming stronger and more dominant. What would have happened if this occured to Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa?

 

[Northstar]

Whats Henotheism?

 

[Johnrankins]

Whats Henotheism?

It means devoting yourself to one god but allowing the possibility for others.http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/egyptmyth/g/henotheism.htm

 

[Shurik]

I don't know that he did ever "totally embrace" Christianity. AFAIK, he wasn't baptized until his deathbed, and he continued to pay homage to the old Roman gods throughout his life. Maybe he might have been a bit harder on the Christians, but they were already so well entrenched into society, that I doubt it would have made much difference.

 

[Armylt12]

I don't know that he did ever "totally embrace" Christianity. AFAIK, he wasn't baptized until his deathbed, and he continued to pay homage to the old Roman gods throughout his life. Maybe he might have been a bit harder on the Christians, but they were already so well entrenched into society, that I doubt it would have made much difference.

That is the one problem with my POD, i was discussing this with one of my profs at college and she stated that no really knows if he was truly converted or not. Although, I am trying to base this on the fact that he never even tries to make an alliance with Christian but rather seeks the exact opposite. This is my problem.

 

[adrian101a]

reply

the vision constantine claimed to see was ploy to support christianity in rome
something that constantine saw as a potentially unifying
the idea was in his head before the so called vision

 

[Armylt12]

the vision constantine claimed to see was ploy to support christianity in rome
something that constantine saw as a potentially unifying
the idea was in his head before the so called vision

Adrian101,

No one can know for sure if he saw a vision or not. The question of my POD though, is what would happen to Northern Africa, the Middle East, and Europe because in my POD he tries to limit the spread of Christianity. I really don't see his vision as a "ploy", but again no one will ever know.

 

[The Byronic Hero]

Constantine the Con-Artist

In my opinion, he never actually saw a sign. He realized the Empire needed something to unify it. Further fracturing of the state, especially on religious lines through persecution, was counterproductive. Besides, three centuries of persecution proved to only multiply the Christian movement rather than quash it. Seeing the kind fo devotion Christians had for their faith to even a fanatical level, is it any wonder Constantine seized on it? To get individuals ready to do even the most insane of acts under your rule; that is too good to pass up. Especially when you say you have God's ear and can tell them what to do. The only way to get Constantine to pass up Christianity is to either weaken the faith, a less fractured Empire, or a better unifying element.

 

[Keenir]

AFAIK, he wasn't baptized until his deathbed,

usually when people did that, it was so that they were assured that there was no sin they could commit between their baptism and their death.

 

[Armylt12]

In my opinion, he never actually saw a sign. He realized the Empire needed something to unify it. Further fracturing of the state, especially on religious lines through persecution, was counterproductive. Besides, three centuries of persecution proved to only multiply the Christian movement rather than quash it. Seeing the kind fo devotion Christians had for their faith to even a fanatical level, is it any wonder Constantine seized on it? To get individuals ready to do even the most insane of acts under your rule; that is too good to pass up. Especially when you say you have God's ear and can tell them what to do. The only way to get Constantine to pass up Christianity is to either weaken the faith, a less fractured Empire, or a better unifying element.

Okay, my question is though, why wouldn't he pass up Christianity. It is monotheistic, teachs Jesus and one god, which is contradictory to Roman Theology, and that the people most follow the ways of the lord if it contradicts their faith with the government. The fact isnt about the sign, we all have our beliefs about it, but assuming he did pass up Christianity, what do you believe that outcome would be in Europe, the Middle East, and North Africa?

 

[Nikephoros]

The only way to get Constantine to pass up Christianity is to either weaken the faith, a less fractured Empire, or a better unifying element.

To get any of those to happen, we will likely need a POD that will lead to no Constantine.

 

[Armylt12]

usually when people did that, it was so that they were assured that there was no sin they could commit between their baptism and their death.

That is what my history prof said as well, but what I am trying to understand is what is your belief if he had pasted up Christianity? Through what we know out the window please. Constantine, in my POD, is stopping Christianity, what do you think would happen to the areas I state previously?

 

[Armylt12]

To get any of those to happen, we will likely need a POD that will lead to no Constantine.

Why no Constantine? He is the main that bring Christianity into the political, economical, and social limelight. If it werent for him, Christianity wouldn't have spread so quick, I believe. I'm just asking nicely, why do you believe we need a POD without Constantine?

 

[Nikephoros]

Why no Constantine? He is the main that bring Christianity into the political, economical, and social limelight. If it werent for him, Christianity wouldn't have spread so quick, I believe. I'm just asking nicely, why do you believe we need a POD without Constantine?

I was referring to the butterfly effect. I don't care what POD you choose.

 

[mishery]

Er, no Nicean creed!

 

[Don_Giorgio]

That is the one problem with my POD, i was discussing this with one of my profs at college and she stated that no really knows if he was truly converted or not. Although, I am trying to base this on the fact that he never even tries to make an alliance with Christian but rather seeks the exact opposite. This is my problem.

Actually he was baptised by an Arian Bishop but according to Church Canons a Sacrament if performed "in the right way" even by a heretic its still valid... I doubt that he truly converted but he wouldnt have risked it being at odds with the Christian God so he did it just in case..

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

The infamous sign of the "in hoc signo", is actually quite ambigous - it was a cross on a circular background. Some people think that he was undecided at that point between Christianity and Sol Invictus (the unconquered sun) which was a major attempt to develop a higher religion out of the old Greek/Roman stream of religion.

OTOH, his mom was certainly Christian, which may have been a major push in that direction. (She was the one who wandered around and said. Yup, this is the spot Jesus Xed here. X=die, born, did various miracles)

I think that Constantine saw that a strong religion could support and unify the empire. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if HE thought he was using God, whereas God was actually using him!

 

[Armylt12]

I think that I need to do some further research on this topic so that My POD is stronger. I will post my thoughts, hopefully with further detail, soon!