Could fascism survive to the present without WW2?

Yes, but would autocratic militarism without actual fighting still be fascism or just .... autocratic militarism?
I think so, but that doesn’t mean that wars can’t be fought. Look at how often other countries like Britain, France, the US, Russia and Israel fought. I can think of several inflection points where fascist powers might have gotten involved during the Cold War if it had survived WW2 as a Viable ideology.hey’d also try to hold on to their colonies, so they’d end up fighting colonial wars like the Portuguese.
 
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Them hadn't really good direction for expansion or intrests. And Salazar was ready to keep Portuguese colonial empire not matter what it cost. He even trialed general who just gave up with Goa when saw defending that small colony as pointless.
Plenty of small states ran or are runnign militarized societies, most notable examples would be North Korea or Israel. And wanting to keep the colonies puts Salazar on the fascism scale at the same level as de Gaulle or Churchill. Such things can't be the metric how to measure it, that just makes us all fascists. Fascism is a style of authoritarian politics, the actual policies can be as varied as day and night.
 
Fascism is a style of authoritarian politics, the actual policies can be as varied as day and night.
Turn the clock back to the thirties and many parts of the world needed serious rule or change. The Great Depression was setting in and in 1932, Roosevelt was warned not to run for president unless he was ready to assume a role of dictator. After all, look at Russia, Italy and Germany. FDR enacted one dictatorial edict: he outlawed trade of gold and excessive gold coins (over $100) that were not part of a collection. Then he let up and brought the New Deal.
 
The foreign policy, lebensraumy, aspect of fascist regimes will get them into trouble eventually. You can only promise glorious conquests to your populace and not deliver for so long. Eventually your support base will start to discount your words. Add in the economically ruinous rearmament efforts as well as the deplorable domestic policies, and your heading for a fiscal collapse eventually. The capitalist powers eventually sanction them to death.
Promising the conquests isn't necessary. It was crucial for Hitler and his slogans about the Germans deserving to be the masters of Europe, but other european axis powers weren't power-hungry for conquests. Eager, but not obsessed. Fascists believe that the world is morally rotten, that the world falls into degeneracy, and that only the strict control over their nation might prevent it. That's the goal of fascism, and in such sense it could be able to keep its position. In this sense Hitler was a fascist, but he was above all else a national socialist: social benefits for the german master race, but from resources that will be gained from others. Non-nazi fascists preferred to rely on what they already have.
 
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Promising the conquests isn't necessary. It was crucial for Hitler and his slogans about the Germans deserving to be the masters of Europe, but other european axis powers weren't power-hungry for conquests. Eager, but not obsessed. Fascists believe that the world is morally rotten, that the world falls into degeneracy, and that only the strict control over their nation might prevent it. That's the goal of fascism, and in such sense it could be able to keep its position. In this sense Hitler was a fascist, but he was above all else a national socialist: social benefits for the german master race, but from resources that will be gained from others. Non-nazi fascists preferred to rely on what they already have.

Ehhh, name which one's didn't have some type of imperial or revanchist goals.
 
Ehhh, name which one's didn't have some type of imperial or revanchist goals.
Fascists do promise to take care of the country's issues, including what they believe to be poorly managed foreign policy. The point I was trying to make, is that they could abandon the expansionist aspect for the sake of focusing themselves exclusively on the internal issues. Germany was the only one who wanted to get the empire regardless of the cost. Others did pursue their expansionist ideas, but only after Germany created for them the comfortable environment.
 
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I believe fascist states that are secular and modernist, like Germany and Italy, could definitely survive to the present day. However, I think reactionary regimes like those of Portugal or Spain (or Austria under Dollfuss) would have a harder time in the long run. Fascism was a direct response to Soviet Marxism; it offered an alternate way to deal with the challenges of modernity and capitalism. It promised to do so by using the full power of the state to an extent that neither liberals nor socialists were willing to do, yet without having to radically change every aspect of society like Marxists demanded.

Furthermore, even though there’s the cliche of fascists being obsessed with an imaginary, glorified past, I would argue ‘pure’ fascism was in many ways more progressive and modernist than people think. Fascists did not want to go back to the old feudal order, nor were they particularly in love with the church. Similar to Marxism, Fascism had an aspirational aspect to it that made it seem like the ‘next big thing’, which attracted many people to it. Reactionary regimes like those in Spain and Portugal didn’t have this ’it’-factor, there was nothing ‘exciting’ about them; the people who supported them mostly did so because they thought the alternatives (liberal malaise or Marxist revolution) would be worse.

Fascism also has the advantage that it’s long-term economic prospects would’ve likely been much better than those of their Marxist competitors. There would be lots of economic interventionism for sure, but they would retain private property and business as the basis of their economy, and thus wouldn’t fall behind liberal countries economically to the same extent as the Soviets did IOTL. As long as these fascist states don’t lose a major war, I could see them surviving until the present day.

But what really determines whether fascism could survive, is whether the ruling classes in fascist states have confidence in their own system and ideology. Much of the Soviet ruling class lost this confidence IOTL, which is why the end of communism in Europe was so remarkably peaceful (with some exceptions). If fascist regimes can maintain a certain level of confidence in their system among their business elite, as well as among the people in the party and government apparatuses, then their long-term survival is definitely possible.
 
Fascists do promise to take care of the country's issues, including what they believe to be poorly managed foreign policy. The point I was trying to make, is that they could abandon the expansionist aspect for the sake of focusing themselves exclusively on the internal issues. Germany was the only one who wanted to get the empire regardless of the cost. Others did pursue their expansionist ideas, but only after Germany created for them the comfortable environment.
But none have ever done so. None. All came to power and maintained said power by utilizing foreign policy assperations as a major political tenant. Also Fascist Italy invaded Ethiopia before Germany did anything on the international stage.
 
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It seem to me that what determines whether — and where — fascism survives is how globalisation develops.

Ron Rogowski in his 1989 book Commerce and Coalitions: How Trade Affects Domestic Political Alignments, argues that European fascism arose because of the collapse of globalisation following World War I. The book, studying the interwar and postwar periods, argues — although Spain under Franco and Portugal under the Estado Novo is not covered at all — that expanding trade via globalisation was certain to weaken the sections of society upon which European fascism depended for support. Thus, the reutrn to freer trade after World War I, and especially after the 1973 oil crisis, made the downfall of fascism or fascist-like regimes in Spain and Portugal impossible to prevent, because labour — their abundant factor of production — was gaining from expanding trade, whilst land — their scarce factor, but the one upon which the fascist regimes depended — was being outcompeted by the Western Hemisphere, Australia, Africa and northern Asia.

If he had studied Portugal during the Estado Novo period, Rogowski would have noted that owing to its large colonial holdings in Southern Africa and resultant international sanctions after the Colonial War, Portugal took a very limited part in the postwar expansion of trade. The Salazar regime and its primary support base in the Catholic Church and large landowners was strengthened by sanctions — unlike the situation in South Africa or Rhodesia which he also does not discuss.

In the past on this site I have imagined that Mussolini, if he had stayed neutral in World War II, could have been in a similar, but much stronger, position to Salazar, and with the hindsight of Rogowski, it is not impossible to my mind that the Fascist regime in Italy could have survived to today. If fascist nations came to serve as labour sources for (Gulf) oil monarchies, they also could certainly survive indefintely. There is no doubt that this semi-rentier economy is critical to preventing democratisation in the Levant, Pakistan and Tajikistan.
 
But none have every done so. None. All came to power and maintained said power by utilizing foreign policy assperations as major political tenant. Also Fascist Italy invaded Ethopia before Germany did anything in the international stage.
By the time Italy invaded Ethiopia, openly revanchist Hitler had already ruled in Germany, and that was enough to convince Mussolini that the west has bigger things to worry about. And Mussolini had been ruling in Italy since 1922, and throughout these 13 years somehow noone overthrew him for the lack of expansion.
 
Spain wasnt a Fascist country. The Falange were in coalition with the other conservative powers.

Depends yours definition. Fascism has not such clear definition as communism. There is too some basic call Falangist government as fascist. Of course they didn't call themselves as fascists but Franco was clever man and he knew that it wouldn't be great idea to associate himself with other fascist regime speciality after WW2.
 
I know that fascism is a nebulous term where the definition isn't entirely agreed upon, with debates over whether Franco was fascist or not, but just assume a more broad definition of the sort of right-wing nationalist dictatorships that popped up during the interwar years, like Austria, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc. Would it be possible for a large number them to survive all the way to the present day as authoritarian, corporatist, socially conservative states? And when I mean "survive" I don't mean as a tiny oddity, like fascist versions of North Korea, but as a significant, relatively wealthy power bloc, as well as being formally undemocratic, in the "one-party list" style elections, or "no elections" styles, not like more modern "competitive authoritarianisms." How far could fascism as an ideology expand?

I'm asking this question because on a lot of the other threads I've seen on something similar, they all assume that the fascist/nazi blocs would collapse or reform into democracies at some point in the 60s/70s onwards, like Francoist Spain or Portugal did. Is this really inevitable, or is this just bias from OTL?

(Disclaimer: I despise fascism, and authoritarianism, just for the record. I'm just interested in how this scenario could play out and the ramifications of it.)

Thanks!

Oh absolutely, and in fact it would've been perfectly plausible for some of them to survive despite WWII. The real question here is how you avoid WWII, and to do that we need to break it down into how we avoid WWII in Europe and WWII in the Pacific. A scenario where Japan isn't sanctioned and subsequently doesn't strike south is going to allow a different fascism to survive then if Hitler was killed in the Beer Hall Putsch or if Mussolini stays neutral in Germany's various wars. If you narrow down which region you'd be most interested in or if you had a particular idea about averting WWII then I think we could work off that.
 
Oh absolutely, and in fact it would've been perfectly plausible for some of them to survive despite WWII. The real question here is how you avoid WWII, and to do that we need to break it down into how we avoid WWII in Europe and WWII in the Pacific. A scenario where Japan isn't sanctioned and subsequently doesn't strike south is going to allow a different fascism to survive then if Hitler was killed in the Beer Hall Putsch or if Mussolini stays neutral in Germany's various wars. If you narrow down which region you'd be most interested in or if you had a particular idea about averting WWII then I think we could work off that.
What I was thinking with the "no WW2" part of this thread was that something happens that removes Hitler from the picture, like say he gets killed by a stray artillery shell in WW1. So even if there is a Nazi party, or some other far-right revanchist movement in Germany, it is likely that they will not be actively pushing to trigger another world war in Europe, maybe a local one with Poland, but not the sort of suicidal madness that Hitler pushed Germany down. As for the Pacific, without the fall of Western Europe, Japan's still going to go after China, but probably doesn't pick a fight with the Europeans or Americans.

Edit: Oops, not triggering a world war.
 
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