Could the Mongol Empire have conquered the world?

[Gryphon]

It's a simple enough question. Given the proper PODs, could the Mongol Empire have eventually conquered the whole planet, and if so, how, and if not, why?

(I'm sorry I can't be a better discussion-starter; my knowledge of the Mongols is relatively limited. I am of the understanding that, had Ghengis lived longer and/or that had the friction betwixt his sons been lesser, things might have gone rather more swimmingly for the Empire in certain later campaigns. Perhaps this could be a start.)

 

[Elfwine]

In a word, no. The Mongols would be stretched too far even if you could have better cooperation between Genghis's heirs..

 

[Basileus Giorgios]

I think it's vanishingly unlikely. Distance and logistics mean the Empire's likely to fragment long before it comes close to conquering the world. Never say never, but I'd place a Roman conversion to Christianity in 50BC as more likely than a Mongol conquest of the world beginning with Genghis Khan.

 

[Kayin Dreemurr]

I'm of the opinion that, given the proper POD, theoretically, any nation/civilization can conquer the world, but they may not hold it for long and its highly likely said nation/civilization will fall/collapse and the world will be divided once again.

It also depends on what you define as the world. Any time before the discover of the America's, you can basically have someone conquer the world in a figurative sense. Even if you don't control all of africa and none of the america's, as long as you crush the major powers that can threaten you in Europe, Asia, or the middle east your set.

 

[jkarr]

Even if you don't control all of africa and none of the america's, as long as you crush the major powers that can threaten you in Europe, Asia, or the middle east your set.

which the mongols were coming close to doing anyways...really if you get rid of the need for all the generals and such to go to the Kurultai and vote on the obvious decision of one of Ghenghis' heirs being Great Khan, you could have them extend easily to the atlantic...but as mentioned above, the mongol empire wasnt structured to last without it fragmenting...


perhaps have Gehgish live longer and better make out his plans for succession and how the state should be run better...he left alot undone

 

[hairysamarian]

It's a simple enough question. Given the proper PODs, could the Mongol Empire have eventually conquered the whole planet, and if so, how, and if not, why?

No. The communications technology needed to hold such a structure together didn't exist, to say nothing of the logistics involved. And they didn't even know that the Americas existed when their empire was founded.

 

[hairysamarian]

It also depends on what you define as the world.

The OP says, "the whole planet." That's a pretty clear definition, and it makes the idea pretty much impossible.

 

[Alex1guy]

Whole planet? Not a chance. The technology to run an Empire from a single administrative position barely exists nowadays, let alone 1000 years ago. Controlling it would be impossible. That's providing you can even conquer everything, the logistics (yes those boring things that ruin every military commander's fun) would be beyond scope of the time.

 

[Elfwine]

which the mongols were coming close to doing anyways...really if you get rid of the need for all the generals and such to go to the Kurultai and vote on the obvious decision of one of Ghenghis' heirs being Great Khan, you could have them extend easily to the atlantic...but as mentioned above, the mongol empire was structured to last without it fragmenting...


perhaps have Gehgish live longer and better make out his plans for succession and how the state should be run better...he left alot undone

And what exactly is he supposed to do? Will by fiat that succession will go to (given heir) and have trouble convincing people to agree?

Meanwhile, even if the generals and such don't have to return, that doesn't mean the Mongols can just beat anything they face anywhere.

 

[Gryphon]

The OP says, "the whole planet." That's a pretty clear definition, and it makes the idea pretty much impossible.

Whole planet? Not a chance. The technology to run an Empire from a single administrative position barely exists nowadays, let alone 1000 years ago. Controlling it would be impossible. That's providing you can even conquer everything, the logistics (yes those boring things that ruin every military commander's fun) would be beyond scope of the time.

Okay then, let's change the focus of the question some.

1.) What is the theoretical plausible-maximum of the Mongol Empire as a single administrative body?
2.) What is the theoretical plausible-maximum that a number of relatively independent Mongol states (such as the ones that sprang up after Ghengis's death) could achieve? (This would avoid the 'single administrative centre' problem, for one thing- I'd imagine, for example, a theoretical Spanish Khanate would have little regular direct contact with the Indochinese Khanate.)

 

[RainbowDoubleDash]

Provided that you define "the whole world" as "Asia, North Africa, and Europe..."

...yeah, I think that the Mongolians could have done it, either as a single empire or as a bunch of related successor-states. The big problems are Japan and Britain, of course, friggin' islands that they are. Kamikazes and Perfidious Albion: the bane of every would-be Supreme Khan. But it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

Holding it, well, I don't think that a single Mongolian super-empire could do it, but I could see individual khanates lasting for quite some time. Maybe a twenty year period where all of the "world" (as defined above) bows to one khan or another before the whole system starts coming apart.

 

[Julius Vogel]

Provided that you define "the whole world" as "Asia, North Africa, and Europe..."

...yeah, I think that the Mongolians could have done it, either as a single empire or as a bunch of related successor-states. The big problems are Japan and Britain, of course, friggin' islands that they are. Kamikazes and Perfidious Albion: the bane of every would-be Supreme Khan. But it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

Holding it, well, I don't think that a single Mongolian super-empire could do it, but I could see individual khanates lasting for quite some time. Maybe a twenty year period where all of the "world" (as defined above) bows to one khan or another before the whole system starts coming apart.

The rebellious Khanate of New Zealand will also be a problem

Well, not really. NZ was only really in the first throws of human exploration and settlement at the time, so I'm sure it would be easy to conquer. Just sending a single ship would technically do it!

 

[Elfwine]

The rebellious Khanate of New Zealand will also be a problem

Well, not really. NZ was only really in the first throws of human exploration and settlement at the time, so I'm sure it would be easy to conquer. Just sending a single ship would technically do it!

The distance (and thus supplies) factor might need a bit more attention.

 

[Shaby]

At that level of technology no country could conceivably conquer the world in the literal sense of the word. One continent is already a stretch. If it takes you a better part of the year to march your army from one end of your realm to the other, clearly it is too big.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Given that no one in eurasia knew austria even existed, it would have been awfully difficult to conquer it...

Hawaii, easter island, antarctica, ....


Edit: australia, not austria! Blasted nook nonkeyboard.

 

[Trotsky]

Given that no one in eurasia knew austria even existed, it would have been awfully difficult to conquer it...

Hawaii, easter island, antarctica, ....

I think the Habsburgs were aware of Austria's existence.

 

[Alternate History Geek]

No. The communications technology needed to hold such a structure together didn't exist, to say nothing of the logistics involved. And they didn't even know that the Americas existed when their empire was founded.

Once they conquer the eastern tip of Siberia then Alaska is only a short hop to the east.

 

[Tangerine]

Like most conquering peoples, the Mongols were only really interested in overthrowing already-established states. The reasons are obvious: established states have vast reserves of wealth, taxable populations and the potential for lucrative trade. Empires of the Mongol type had no incentive to expand into hinterland regions with few inhabitants - they expanded by conquest only, not colonization. Hell, even Europe was too much of a wasteland for them.

I'm also extremely skeptical of the idea that the Mongols had the potential to become a "super-empire", managing to keep all their conquests under one ruler and forge them into a stable state. It smacks of serious ASB usage. Medieval logistics and administrative capability will not support a unified state of this size.

 

[CandyDragon]

It's a simple enough question. Given the proper PODs, could the Mongol Empire have eventually conquered the whole planet, and if so, how, and if not, why?

(I'm sorry I can't be a better discussion-starter; my knowledge of the Mongols is relatively limited. I am of the understanding that, had Ghengis lived longer and/or that had the friction betwixt his sons been lesser, things might have gone rather more swimmingly for the Empire in certain later campaigns. Perhaps this could be a start.)

No, and I doubt the Mongols would have the inclination to conquer the world.

Later campaigns could go well, but the Mongol succession would need to be, and couldn't be ironed out. It was going to screw things over, no matter how much they conquered.

 

[Mumby]

Nominally perhaps. With a core Great Khanate around China and Russia, with lesser Khans conquering and vassalising and bringing new Khanates under the rule of the Mongols. Eventually the whole world may be brought under this vastly complex feudal system. But the more important Khans will be continually contesting over lesser Khanates, and in this way any true union will be impossible. But in name at least, the Great Khan is supreme figurehead of the whole world.