EIC conquers Japan?

[EvolvedSaurian]

Alright, let's say that sometime in the 1840s or early 1850s, some official gets it in his head to open up Japan to trade, if after 1850 assume Perry never went. Assuming, as OTL, that the Japanese resent this foreign interference, a resistance movement would spring up and the EIC would crush it using Indian and Japanese troops in the pay of the Company. The Emperor remains a figurehead and someone more pliable and more pro-British is appointed to the post of Shogun.

Now, assuming that the Sepoy rebellion still happens, possibly including continued resistance in Japan, what would be the fate of Japan once the EIC's powers get limited by the crown? Would Japan become a Princely State of sorts? Would direct colonization be worthwhile?

Might there be increased Japanese immigration to Canada and possibly Australia and New Zealand? How would those immigrants affect the cultures of those lands, and how would those lands affect them? How would Japan being under British rule, of one sort or another, change its culture?

 

[Thande]

The trouble with this is that Japan was too much of a unitary state. I've done my best in LTTW to do it with the Russians by playing on the rebellions of various daimyo that sometimes happened to divide matters, but it's not like the EIC wedging its boot in the door of the decaying Mughal Empire with all those successor states cropping up everywhere.

China in the Opium Wars is a better analogy, but if the EIC did that with Japan I don't think that would produce the kind of situation you describe...though it would still be interesting.

 

[EvolvedSaurian]

The trouble with this is that Japan was too much of a unitary state.

In some ways Japan's political and cultural homogeneity could be an asset to a potential conqueror. Only having to deal with two main people, as opposed to India's hundreds of rajas, nawabs and etcetera, one language and cultural group against India's hundreds of languages, ethnicities and caste groups. All in all, it seems that Japan would be rather easier to administer, provided the initial conquest goes smoothly.

Perhaps a bit of civil strife could be injected into the equation, to weaken their resolve. Perhaps the chaos and bloodshed of another civil war would make people desire peace, even under British rule. Would that be at all possible?

I've done my best in LTTW to do it with the Russians by playing on the rebellions of various daimyo that sometimes happened to divide matters, but it's not like the EIC wedging its boot in the door of the decaying Mughal Empire with all those successor states cropping up everywhere.

Yes, are we going to have an update on that soon?

China in the Opium Wars is a better analogy, but if the EIC did that with Japan I don't think that would produce the kind of situation you describe...though it would still be interesting.

Interesting how? A British enclave on a Japanese island?

 

[Matthais Corvinus]

In some ways Japan's political and cultural homogeneity could be an asset to a potential conqueror. Only having to deal with two main people, as opposed to India's hundreds of rajas, nawabs and etcetera, one language and cultural group against India's hundreds of languages, ethnicities and caste groups. All in all, it seems that Japan would be rather easier to administer, provided the initial conquest goes smoothly.

Perhaps a bit of civil strife could be injected into the equation, to weaken their resolve. Perhaps the chaos and bloodshed of another civil war would make people desire peace, even under British rule. Would that be at all possible?

Yes, are we going to have an update on that soon?

Interesting how? A British enclave on a Japanese island?

Maybe the British sign a hundred year lease on Shikoku or Kyushu?

The reason for intervention could be support of the Emperor against the Shogun. This would provide a reason for invasion, and would provide a figure-head for the native regime that the EIC would rule through. It would also discredit the Emperor, and thus lead to a much more interesting (ie different) Japan in the 20th Century.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Maybe the British sign a hundred year lease on Shikoku or Kyushu?

I would consider that more likely or that there are a several 'treaty ports' similar to Hong Kong, probably with long leases.

Looking to the more dramatic its likely that the EIC could become a power player behind various clans in an effort to control portions of Japan. The Shogun and Emperor may be relegated to mere figureheads.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

I would consider that more likely or that there are a several 'treaty ports' similar to Hong Kong, probably with long leases.

Looking to the more dramatic its likely that the EIC could become a power player behind various clans in an effort to control portions of Japan. The Shogun and Emperor may be relegated to mere figureheads.

Emperors were already one though.... that was the point of a Shogunate, really.

 

[yourworstnightmare]

A EIC conquest of Japan seems very unlikely to me.

 

[Lysandros Aikiedes]

I think the Japanese Shogunate would, from the start, view the East India Company with the same suspicion as the Dutch merchants and the Portuguese missionaries.

 

[David S Poepoe]

Emperors were already one though.... that was the point of a Shogunate, really.

And I was well aware of that point, really. The point is that both positions be figureheads for EIC officials.

 

[Ridwan Asher]

And I was well aware of that point, really. The point is that both positions be figureheads for EIC officials.

Analogous to VOC officials were in Javanese sultanates, you mean ? But it wasn't really figurehead-ment, just a cooperative (either voluntarily or not, from the Javanese perspective) relationship between VOC guys and the de-facto Sultanates' administrators. I think figurehead is a bit to strong of a word. A puppetized/subordinated Shogun to be more fitting, perhaps ?

 

[David S Poepoe]

Analogous to VOC officials were in Javanese sultanates, you mean ? But it wasn't really figurehead-ment, just a cooperative (either voluntarily or not, from the Javanese perspective) relationship between VOC guys and the de-facto Sultanates' administrators. I think figurehead is a bit to strong of a word. A puppetized/subordinated Shogun to be more fitting, perhaps ?

That would be about right. I was thinking about how the EIC had political advisors to various Indian princes or even their High Commissioners, such as Lord Cromer and how he controlled Egypt.