That is very plausible. Spain had a huge empire and not all their colonial governors were equally incompetent. OTL they hung on to the Philippines, Santo Domingo, Puerto Rico and Cuba until the end of the 1890s. With a supportive ally and no Napoleonic invasion and subsequent war they could hold on to more.
English Canada/French Carolina: A Timeline
- Thread starter Gabingston
- Start date
Any ideas as to what happens to Brazil? IOTL, the Portuguese court moved there during the Napoleonic Wars, but since that doesn't happen ITTL, what is the relationship between Portugal and Brazil? I think it'd be an example of the tail wagging the dog, with Brazil becoming increasingly influential within the Portuguese Empire. Heck, I could see the capital being moved from Lisbon to Rio, with Portugal becoming simply a peripheral part of the empire and Brazil becoming the core region. Or maybe Brazil gains a status similar to the Commonwealth of America in the British Empire? I'm no expert on Portuguese or Brazilian history, so if any of you guys have suggestions, feel free to share them, any help would be welcome.
https://www.strawpoll.me/17932026
Poll on who wins the Franco-Austrian War that will be featured in a coming update.
Poll on who wins the Franco-Austrian War that will be featured in a coming update.
Part 26: Iberian America
Part 26: Iberian America
Stretching from the 42nd Parallel North in California to about the equal parallel South, Spanish and Portuguese America in the Early 19th Century was a true behemoth, with a wide variety of culture, geography and demographics. There were majority European areas like the Rio De La Plata, Mestizo areas like Central Mexico and New Granada and Indigenous areas like the Highlands of Peru. Within 50 years of Columbus’ voyage, the Spanish bulldozed the Native civilizations and populations of the Americas, conquering the Aztec Empire in 1521 (with the help of the Aztec rivals of the Tlaxcala) and the Inca Empire in 1532, although the process of solidifying Spanish rule in Peru took another forty years from there.
However, by the Early 19th Century, the Spanish Empire was undoubtedly in decline. Far from it’s glory days in the 16th and 17th Centuries, Spain was a backwards nation lagging behind their contemporaries of France and Britain. It was getting increasingly difficult to manage and hold down such a large domain spanning from Madrid to Mexico to Manila, especially with increasing separatism and demands for reform and autonomy from their colonies, such as with the Casta system which privileged Peninsulares (European born) over Criollos (American born Whites), Mestizos (White/Native Mixed) and Natives, in that order from top to bottom.
In the Early 19th Century, there was already significant Spanish settlement in the northern fringes of their empire, especially in the upper Rio Bravo valley around Santa Fe. In the deserts to the west, the primary settlement was the outpost of San Xavier del Bac in the Sonoran Desert. Another outpost was founded at the place where the Miraflores and Colorado Rivers meet, Fuerte Nuestra Señora de Yuma, which became a stop for travelers from Central Mexico to California. Further north, Spanish expeditions explored the upper reaches of the Rio Bravo and Colorado Rivers, seeing a desolate, yet beautiful landscape.
Meanwhile, in South America, Spain was intent on expanding their reach south of Buenos Aires into the Pampas and further into the Patagonian Steppe. The settlement of Bahía Blanca was founded in the Early 19th Century as a base for expansion in the Pampas to the North and Steppe to the south. The Pampas turned out to be quite fertile for crops, while the steppe was prime grazing land for cattle and sheep. During this period, Spain loosened its colonial immigration laws, allowing non-Castilians to settle in Spanish colonies, as long as they were Catholic and would pledge loyalty to the Spanish crown. Thus, a decent stream of Catholic Catalans, Italians and Germans made their way to Spanish Colonies, although that would become a much greater trend in the future.
As a Bourbon ally to the French, Spain was being nudged in a more liberal direction during the Early 19th Century, in particular when it comes to their Colonies. While the Spaniards weren’t quite ready to give their Colonial possessions complete autonomy like the Brits did with America, they did set up councils for each of their Viceroyalties, granted mostly serving the interests of the Peninsular elites, but it did cool down separatism for the time being.
When it comes to Portuguese Brazil, it really became an example of the tail wagging the dog, as Brazil had a larger population than the homeland by 1800. Lisbon had been devastated by an Earthquake in 1755, while Rio De Janeiro grew in importance. There continued to be massive emigration of Portuguese to Brazil, draining the homeland while making Brazil even more of a behemoth. There were even talks and rumors about the crown packing up and moving to Rio, but they wouldn’t do that, right? Ok, they didn’t do that, but they did grant the Viceroyalty of Brazil their own colonial parliament, just as Spain had done with their colonies.
Now, I did mention the Spanish expanding in the Southern Cone, but they wouldn’t be without competition...
Part 27: British Patagonia
Part 27: British Patagonia
Patagonia, the land at the bottom at the World. A land of spectacular mountains, mysterious fjords and lonely deserts. A land that remained unsettled by European colonists long after the rest of the continent. However, that was not to last, as the interest of the Colonial Powers in this land was increasing by the Early 19th Century. To the north was the Spanish colony of the Rio De La Plata, and Spain had claimed this area as part of that colony, even if they hadn’t settled it quite yet. France had shown some interest in settling Patagonia, but in the end they were going to respect the claims of their main ally and fellow Bourbons, so French Patagonia was pretty much out of the question. The Nordic Countries were too small to set up a colony, and Prussia didn’t have the naval presence, even if they could theoretically support one.
That leaves Britain as the main competitor to Spain for colonizing Patagonia. Britain had the most powerful navy in the world, had a large pool of potential settlers (even if only a sliver of Britain’s emigrés went to Patagonia, it’d still be enough for a successful colony) and the ambition to colonize a place as remote as the tip of South America (they were the first ones to colonize Terra Australis, after all). There had been historical British exploration and claims in Patagonia, after all.
In 1827, the British Patagonian Company was chartered in London. Their aims were to set up a successful colony in Patagonia, protect the colony from Spanish incursions and Native raids and recruit settlers to come to the colony, choosing Patagonia over more established colonies like America and Australia.
After extensive exploration of the Patagonian coast, a quality site for a colony was found. It was located on the mouth of a river, with arable land in the valley and a hinterland fit for grazing cattle and sheep. With the location set, supplies were gathered and settlers recruited, and on May 4th, 1832, a fleet of colonization departed from the Port of Southampton in England, bound for the end of the World…
Over 80 days and 8,000 miles later, the fleet arrived at the site where they were to build their settlement. A simple fishing pier was constructed on the shore, with the townsite, named Williamstown after the reigning monarch was plotted about five miles upstream from the mouth. Despite some rough patches near the beginning of the colony, such as the difficulty of farming in an arid climate (solved by irrigation from the river), the first British settlement in Patagonia soon became self-sustaining. The Patagonian Company established several more settlements along the coast (many of them just simple fishing camps), with Port Desire, Sandy Point and Saint George as three examples.
In order to lure settlers to Patagonia, the company gave out huge land grants and free transportation for anyone willing to come, as long as they settled and worked the land in return. Now, as most of Patagonia is utterly useless for agriculture, the settlers quickly turned to ranching, adopting a culture similar to the Spanish Vaqueros. Wool soon became the colony’s main export, as well as wood from further south where trees would grow. Following the Clear River from its mouth in Williamstown, early expeditions to the unknown hinterland basically described it as a God-forsaken wasteland, but kept pushing on searching for greener pastures, wherever they may be, but I will have to save that for a future update, as I have other subjects to get to soon, so farewell from Patagonia!
Is there another major country in Europe that could've seen a revolution aside from France? I'm no expert on European history, so help would be greatly appreciated.
Well, Belgium had a revolution in the 1830s, so maybe you could nip and tuck with history a bit there.
By the way, love the timeline
What happens to Germany? Germany at the time of the French Revolution was a puzzle of hundreds of little duchies, kingdoms and city-states, all part of the dinosaur that was the HRE. Do larger nation-states still form in Germany in a world without the French Revolution, or does it stay the same patchwork it was pre Napoleonic Wars IOTL (or maybe somewhere in between)?
It looks at though from the poll that France will end up winning the Franco-Austrian War. So, here's a new poll on what happens to Belgium, the region the war was fought over, after the war is over.
https://www.strawpoll.me/17965549
https://www.strawpoll.me/17965549
The Dutch Republic. It had a minor revolution until the Prussians entered and restored the Stadholder.
Actualy I would say that it could happen to most European countries, assuming the right circumstances: weak ruler, combined with economic and other problems. You probably also need a large (and important) class without the power that should come with its importance.
Me in a previous comment:
"What happens to Germany? Germany at the time of the French Revolution was a puzzle of hundreds of little duchies, kingdoms and city-states, all part of the dinosaur that was the HRE. Do larger nation-states still form in Germany in a world without the French Revolution, or does it stay the same patchwork it was pre Napoleonic Wars IOTL (or maybe somewhere in between)?"
I am going to post a poll on how you think German/HRE would develop in the 19th Century.
https://www.strawpoll.me/18010153
"What happens to Germany? Germany at the time of the French Revolution was a puzzle of hundreds of little duchies, kingdoms and city-states, all part of the dinosaur that was the HRE. Do larger nation-states still form in Germany in a world without the French Revolution, or does it stay the same patchwork it was pre Napoleonic Wars IOTL (or maybe somewhere in between)?"
I am going to post a poll on how you think German/HRE would develop in the 19th Century.
https://www.strawpoll.me/18010153
Part 28: War Comes To Europe
Part 28: War Comes To Europe
Austria had possessed parts of the Low Countries for hundreds of years by the 1820s, yet their rule was becoming increasingly tenuous. There’d been a revolt in 1790 due to the attempts at centralization in the Austrian Netherlands, such as the establishment of German as the language of administration, which very few spoke (Flanders spoke Dutch, while Wallonia spoke French). The rebels formed the new United States of Belgium, but the rebellion was soon quashed. Despite that, discontent remained with Austrian rule, as the Belgians, whether they be French or Dutch speaking did not feel any sort of connection or brotherhood with some distant bureaucrats far off in Vienna. France, on the other hand had desired to conquer the Austrian Netherlands for some time, as half of it was Francophone (well, they spoke Walloon, a regional language closely related to standard French) and the other half had a Francophone Upper Class. The French also had a geopolitical ambition to conquer the entire Left Bank of the Rhine, viewing it as their natural border. However, the biggest reason France wanted the Austrian Netherlands were the large reserves of Coal found in the Walloon Hills that could be used to fuel France’s growing industrial sector (as well as spurring industry in the newly acquired Belgium).
So, when the Belgians revolted in 1829, France quickly intervened on the side of the rebels. Viewing this as the perfect opportunity to get their hands on that sweet sweet coal, the French sent their army into Belgium, with a large amount of local support from the Walloons. However, with Flanders being Dutch-speaking, France negotiated a treaty with the Netherlands that would cede Flanders to the Dutch. France also drew Prussia into the war by promising them Silesia. Fellow Bourbons Spain and Naples were also in the war on France’s side. In order to balance the scales and keep France from getting too powerful, Russia joined the war on the side of Austria. French and Dutch troops conquered the Austrian Netherlands quite easily, but the fighting in Southern Germany was quite a bit more hotly contested. With Switzerland being neutral, Southern Germany became the main battleground between France and Austria, trying their best to not accidentally cripple neutral countries whose land they were trespassing upon. The two sides were about equal in terms of manpower, so it came down to industrial and technological capacity. Now, this was early on in the industrial revolution, so industrial strength would become much more important in the decades to come, but even at this early stage it was enough to push the French alliance over the top.
The terms of The 1833 Treaty of Munich had Austria cede Wallonia to France, Flanders to the Netherlands and Silesia back to Prussia. It’s been long enough, so if you guys want more details, just ask me, I’ma post this update.
I was wondering if you ever tought about the political situation of the Netherlnds. The Dutch Republic in the second half of the 18th century was incredibly unstable and corruption was at an alltime high. Together with other economic problems, the Dutch republic was in trouble. Although the French puppetation and later occupation of the Netherlands was very bad for the Netherlands, it did give the Netherlands a chance to start over. Whatever you say about the kingdom of the Netherlands in the 19th century, which was far less wealthy and important than the Dutch republic, it was far more politicaly stable and that stability laid the foundation of the wealthy Netherlands of the 21st century. Something I don't think the Dutch Republic would be able to, unless some significant internal changes were made.
For example Brabant, Zeelandic Flanders and what is now part of Limburg were not treated the same as the seven provinces. They were generality lands, ruled directly by the Estate-General, instead of by a provincial Estate, like the provinces were. If the Netherlands absorbs Flanders, I don't think they could get away with treating them as second class citizens.
Another problem was the almost complete domination of the Republic by the province of Holland (which was mostly dominated by the city of Amsterdam). There were several more things, I won't bore you with, like the patriots, the stadholder, etc. In the end something has to change. Of course it doesn't need an occupation by a foreign country. It can come from within. But still.
BTW, did you ever thought about the details of the split of the Southern Netherlands? Was it simply: The Dutch gain all of Fladers, Brabant and Limburg, while France gets Hainaut, Namur and Luxemburg. In that case the Netherlands got some French speaking parts (the south of Brabant and part of Limburg). What happened to the Bishopric of Liege? Is it still independent? I think that a lot of those coal fields were actuly in Liege.
I'd assume that they'd do some census, with majority Francophone areas becoming French, while majority Dutch areas become part of the Netherlands.
I think that the Dutch annexing a majority Catholic region could drive the Republic over the edge into revolution and civil war (which would be a great boon to the colonies of South Africa and Western Australia, as Dutchmen would pour into those regions during the civil war and it's aftermath), with either a French-installed Bourbon monarchy or a federal republic coming as a result. I could do some update on a Dutch Revolution in the Late 1830s and 1840s, I'd just need help from you (you're Dutch, right?).
How do you guys see ideologies developing over the 19th Century without the French Revolution. Many different ideas from Nationalism to Communism to Autocracy have at least part of their roots in the French Revolution (or Napoleonic Period in the case of Autocracy), but other factors that led to their development (e.g. poor working conditions in Communism's case) are still present ITTL. I'm no expert, so if anyone more knowledgeable than I would be willing to share their thoughts, that would be very welcome.
Part 29: Land of the Blessed Rains
Part 29: Land of the Blessed Rains
Alright, time to cover a region that I haven’t touched on ITTL: Africa. It has taken a lot to keep me away from this land where the drums echo in the night and Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti, but there was nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do to keep me from doing an update on the Land of the Blessed Rains. Now, I’ve held the line long enough, and updates aren’t always on time.So, I’m gonna meet you all the way and get to the update now.
North Africa is under Ottoman influence as far west as Tunis, with independent state being located further west, as well as Spanish and French outposts along the coast. West Africa is dotted with European trading posts, trading things like ivory, weapons and… yes, slaves with the kingdoms and nations. East Africa is still part of the Indian Ocean trade network with Arabia and India, Oman being particularly influential in East Africa (as well as Portugal and Britain), as well as the Ethiopian Empire. Central Africa, meanwhile, is dotted with tribal chiefdoms and is rather unknown to Westerners at this point (IDK much about pre-colonial Africa, I’m an ignorant White boy).
My main point of focus in this undoubtedly Eurocentric TL for this update is on South Africa. By 1800, the Dutch had been present in The Cape for 150 years, with the Dutch Cape Colony being primarily ran by the Dutch East India Company, or the VOC for short. The Cape Colony began in 1652 with the establishment of the Fort de Goede Hoop, with it not intended to become a settler colony, but rather just a stopover point for Dutch sailors heading to the Indies. However, settlers eventually arrived from the Netherlands and other Germanic regions, as well as a few French Huguenots, as well as imported slaves from the East Indies, Madagascar and other parts of Africa, the two aforementioned groups mixing with the native Khoi people to form the Cape Coloureds, who made up a significant proportion of the 61,947 inhabitants of the Cape Colony in 1797.
Now, the VOC ran the Cape Colony as a commercial enterprise, ruling with an iron fist over the inhabitants of the colony. Many settlers called Trekboers ventured out into the vast hinterland in order to escape VOC taxes and laws, bringing a dislike of centralized rule with them. However, by the dawn of the 19th Century, the VOC was weakening and on the verge of collapse, so the Dutch government took control of the Cape Colony in 1802, loosening laws and regulations and allowing more settlers to come in. This turned out to be quite convenient, as the Netherlands was not in a good spot in the Late 18th and Early 19th Centuries, with corruption running rampant and the economy struggling, as well as strong regional divides between North and South (more on that in the next update, though). For the Cape Colony, however, this turned out to be a huge boon though, as the unrest back home provided a steady stream of settlers to the colony (not all Dutch, some Germans and Scandinavians as well), averaging about three hundred per year during the 1800s and 1810s. Meanwhile, the British had established their trading post of Port Natal in 1822 in order to provide a stopping point for sailors heading to Australia and India, thus limiting Dutch expansion eastwards, at least along the coast. Afrikaner and Griqua trekkers continued to expand northwards and eastward from The Cape, going as far as the Orange River.
Part of the migrations towards the hinterland was due to the Afrikaners being strong Calvinists, who considered the new Catholic and Non-Calvinist Protestant immigrants to be heretics that they didn’t want to have anything to do with, although they were still loyal to the Netherlands. The first Catholic Parish in the Cape Colony opened in 1803, as well as other non-Calvinist Protestant churches and even a Synagogue soon followed in Kaapstad. By 1820, the Cape Colony’s population had grown to 126,000, split almost evenly between Europeans and Non-Europeans, mainly of Mixed descent, but also of Khoi, Bantu and Asian descent. As sailing technology improved, the rate of migration from Europe began to increase slightly to 400 per year by 1830, growing the population further to 168,432 by 1830. However, the relatively moderate rates of immigration were not to last, as events back home were about to send a wave of Dutchmen heading for the Land of the Blessed Rains...
In my next update, the Dutch Republic, which had been teetering on the edge for decades, collapses after annexing Flanders. There will be a civil war, likely between Republicans and Monarchists. I'm no expert on The Netherlands, so if anyone knows more than I, feel free to leave your thoughts.