Forgotten Empire of the Sands

Umbral

I just came across this: http://www.archaeology.org/0403/abstracts/sands.html

First off, I'd just like to say that the image this conjures...an large realm that lasted well into christian times, worshipping acient egyptian gods, and raiding for slaves like desert vikings... the people living in luxury atop vast networks of tunnels worked by !San slaves, the whole civilization forgotten and covered by the sands of the Sahara...

My cool meter just went all the way to "Pulp"!

Second, I do wonder about what could have happened if the increased need for slaves early in their decline had been followed by an Alexander-type rising to power?

Third, if ever there was a civilization that would have grasped the Roman steam engine like a dying man grasps his last hope of salvation, this was it!
 

Max Sinister

Banned
I wonder WI happened if they realized that water was running out and their equivalent of Alexander and Moses had lead them to conquer another land for them, like Egypt.
 

Jammy

Max Sinister said:
I wonder WI happened if they realized that water was running out and their equivalent of Alexander and Moses had lead them to conquer another land for them, like Egypt.
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Wouldn't that have brought them into a fight with the Roman Empire?
- or are my dates wrong :D
 

Umbral

Poor Rome. Another barbarian invasion, and from a new direction. I seem to remember something about Rome seizing some of their territory in response to raiding.

Perhaps they would have had another go at Rome under a Tuareg Alexander. What was their alternative if they wanted to expand their slavetaking in around 200 A.D.? Anyone have any ideas?

Anyway, given the size, remotness and lack of exploration in the area, I would not be suprised if the size of the realm keeps getting revised upwards for a while.
 

fortyseven

These would have helped :D

fremen.jpg
 

carlton_bach

Max Sinister said:
If they're lucky, they can attack under an incompetent Roman emperor, like Commodus or Elagabal.
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It wouldn't have made a difference. Until the third century, the Roman army was capable of repelling all major threats under Nero and Commodus as well as under Vespasian and Marcus Aurelius. An attempt by the Garamantes to invade would have been defeated handily.

Of course things could get interesting if, instead of trying for a land grab, they went on a raiding spree. That was something that always gave the Romans headaches, especially if they were busy elsewhere.
 

sunsurf

In a timeline where Rome never rose, or it never conquered Egypt, maybe the Garamantean realm is collapsing at just the time one of Egypt's dynasties is collapsing, so the Garamanteans invade southern Egypt and take over?
 

JamesFox

Given that the Garamantes were actually a Roman client state, it would have ben rather suicidal of them to try and attack any Roman province. Perhaps they could try to head south across the Sahara instead. There was as established route south from the Fezzan. Ptolemy mention a Roman officer who crossed the Sahara with a Garamantean expedition, eventually reaching a large river flowing eastwards.

Pehaps as it became evident that the irrigation netwerk was dying, a noble or king could decide to try and cross the Sahara (perhaps borrowing some Camels from the Romans), to try an establish a state down there.
 

carlton_bach

mojojojo said:
Thats from quite a while ago,did they know all of those interesting facts about the Garamantes back then?
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Probably not, but you aren't likely to find the even in relatively recent books.New archeological discoveries tend to take time filtering through into popular literature.

You might have a chance with Afrocentric history, though. Nonmainstream stuff tends to react faster.
 

mojojojo

Gone Fishin'
carlton_bach said:
Probably not, but you aren't likely to find the even in relatively recent books.New archeological discoveries tend to take time filtering through into popular literature.

You might have a chance with Afrocentric history, though. Nonmainstream stuff tends to react faster.
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I am not looking for pseudoscience either.
 

Douglas

What if the Garamantes had managed to get more slaves somehow, earlier?

As in, what if the Roman Empire didn't survive the crisis of the 3rd century AD, and the Garamantes moved in to take Mauretania and Africa (the Roman provinces)? Using slaves (and revenue!) from those provinces, could they build up their water extraction system?
 

mishery

Max Sinister said:
I wonder WI happened if they realized that water was running out and their equivalent of Alexander and Moses had lead them to conquer another land for them, like Egypt.
Click to expand...

Alternatively could they have moved south west to the Niger river (basin)? The beginnings of the Niger River Civilisation....? Big butterflies in the history of West Africa?
 

Rockingham

Banned
fenkmaster said:
What if the Garamantes had managed to get more slaves somehow, earlier?

As in, what if the Roman Empire didn't survive the crisis of the 3rd century AD, and the Garamantes moved in to take Mauretania and Africa (the Roman provinces)? Using slaves (and revenue!) from those provinces, could they build up their water extraction system?
Click to expand...
you'd expect the garamante's civilisation to become centered in mauretania if that occured, and they'd probaly set up a capital on the coast. They would be highly vulnerable.
 
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