George III Died in 1769

What if George III died in 1769, at the age of 31?

How does the British government respond to his death? I honestly don't know the trappings of the British monarchy. How does it work? Does his seven year old son become the King with a brother becoming Regent?

How do the next twenty years or so play out? Does the American Revolution still occur? If it does, who comes out victorious? Does America become a self-governing Dominion a la the Albany Plan of Union? Does it later become an independent kingdom/republic/whatever?
 
Walter_Kaufmann said:
What if George III died in 1769, at the age of 31?

How does the British government respond to his death? I honestly don't know the trappings of the British monarchy. How does it work? Does his seven year old son become the King with a brother becoming Regent?

How do the next twenty years or so play out? Does the American Revolution still occur? If it does, who comes out victorious? Does America become a self-governing Dominion a la the Albany Plan of Union? Does it later become an independent kingdom/republic/whatever?

Hmm. I always thought that the Colonies were mishandled by a corrupt and inept government, not just the King. Perhaps if he had died compromise would have been more likely? Who would have been Regent, and does anyone know anything about his views?
 
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
Hmm. I always thought that the Colonies were mishandled by a corrupt and inept government, not just the King. Perhaps if he had died compromise would have been more likely?

Well, Lord North was appointed by George III in 1770. Perhaps if he wasn't King, North never would have been appointed Prime Minister making compromise more likely...

Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
Who would have been Regent, and does anyone know anything about his views?

I would assume it would be George III's eldest brother, William Guelph, 1st Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh, but I don't know for sure.
 
The succession is no problem, it´s the the later george IV.

But the regency question is interesting. From my reading, there is no exact procedure, only that the parliament appoints a regent.

Two "natural" candidates come into my mind:

1. the kings widow, Sophia Charlotte.

2. one of the king´s brothers, Duke Edward Henry of Gloucester, or the younger Duke Henry Frederick of Cumberland.

I´m going to look up the parliamentary situation later...
 
George was actually a pretty good king, his insanity was just temporary and was on and off.
Messing with George to stop the worst event in history (tm) you would need to make him less ill so he can go ahead with his planned visit to America.
With George III dying here no effect really though what the butterflys can come up with who knows.
 
Leej said:
George was actually a pretty good king, his insanity was just temporary and was on and off.
Messing with George to stop the worst event in history (tm) you would need to make him less ill so he can go ahead with his planned visit to America.
With George III dying here no effect really though what the butterflys can come up with who knows.

His insanity is seemed to be caused by the genetical disorder porphyria, quite nasty. Blue blood is ok, but blue urine...


the big problem with a) a great national debt b) huge costs for defending colonies c) ungrateful colonists are not likely to be affected by a new king.

But a regency era, till 1780 will possilby see less royal influence in politics, so maybe still no Tory cabinet.

but maybe the role of british monarchs gets stronger by this turnaround:

"George was an enigma: bright, witty and able on the one hand, indolent, spoiled, and lazy on the other. The Duke of Wellington described him as such: "He was the most extraordinary compound of talent, wit, buffoonery, obstinacy, and good feelings, in short, a medley of the most opposite qualities, with a great preponderance of good - that I ever saw in any character in my life." Britannia.com


without the setbacks of struggling for regency and the burden of kingdom put upon him in a very young age, he maybe will develop more earnest.

It is propable that he will be married to some princess without the whole catholic-widow affair, given the years he lived in OTL we can get him a 50 years throne jubilee.

So maybe the british hannoverian kings are not seen as a more and more obscue family: One insane George III, one useless George IV, one a complete fool (William IV) "The old fool", as Wellington called him.
 

Faeelin

Banned
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
Hmm. I always thought that the Colonies were mishandled by a corrupt and inept government, not just the King. Perhaps if he had died compromise would have been more likely? Who would have been Regent, and does anyone know anything about his views?

The regents are Hanoverians. The King is George IV, a loose spender and playboy as an adult. Not exactly the stuff of which kings are made.
 
Steffen said:
His insanity is seemed to be caused by the genetical disorder porphyria, quite nasty. Blue blood is ok, but blue urine...

Actually, the urine is red, like Port wine. Thus the name porphyria.
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
The Duke of Gloucester is jumping out of my mind...

This would be quie fascinating because not only the next 50 years would be different but the whole succession

Of course, under a Regency the future George IV may well marry a different person and not being denied the throne at his prime may turn out to be a really good king

Grey Wolf
 
would G3's earlier death really lead to no American Revolution? By his time, the two sides had diverged so much that some kind of break was inevitable. The revolution would probably have only been delayed... who knows, it might even had been earlier if the right/wrong person got into a position of authority after George's death....OTOH, if England had continued it's policies of benign neglect for the colonies, the US might eventually have come into being in a negotiated way, more like Canada (although probably earlier)... but was there any chance of that after the French and Indian wars?
 
robertp6165 said:
Actually, the urine is red, like Port wine. Thus the name porphyria.

Ah, that comes from internet research. And I was so happy about that really stupid, stupid pun.
 
Actually, I doubt that a break was inevitable. The previous 6 years had been tough, but perhaps with the absence of GIII, Pitt the Elder (despite illness) would get a bit more say in Parlimentarian affairs. The Colonists loved Pitt, and he actually pushed for the reforms that England would later institute after the Revolution.
 
Anyone (especially those Brits in the forum) know anything about the Duke of Gloucester's personality? Or at least know where I can find something about his personality?
 
Provisional Timeline: Part One

The American Colonies

1769 Late in the year, King George III of Great Britain drowns while crossing a river. After an elaborate funeral, his eldest son, the Prince of Wales, assumes the throne as King George IV of Great Britain at the age of seven. After a brief crisis, a regency is organized under the brother of George III, William Henry, the Duke of Gloucester.

1770 A group of teenagers and radicals provoke British soldiers into firing upon the assembled crowd, who had been hurling both snowballs and insults at the young soldiers. Five Bostonians are killed in what Samuel Adams terms the “Boston Massacre.†An engraving of the incident, made by Paul Revere is intended to further enflame public opinion.

In response to these tensions, Lieutenant Governor Thomas Hutchinson orders that the British soldiers be withdrawn to Castle Island. The soldiers, defended by John Adams, are later acquitted by a jury of colonists. The hated Townshend Duties are repealed, except for the tax on tea. The Duke of Gloucester, the representative of the Crown, sends an official apology to the people of Boston, calming tensions throughout the colonies.

1773 The Tea Act narrowly passes through Parliament. However, before Massachusetts Governor Thomas Hutchinson can enforce the taxation, the Act is repealed at the behest of the Duke of Gloucester and Prime Minister William Pitt, the Earl of Chatham. The repeal of the tax is greeted enthusiastically in the colonies. In New England, however, a fringe element exists, seeking to enflame passions in the colonies.

1774 Parliament passes the Quebec Act, a well-intentioned measure designed to afford greater rights to the French inhabitants of Canada, which had come under British rule through the Treaty of Paris in 1763. Opposition forms quickly in the American colonies. Colonies with western land claims are firmly cut off from what they hoped would be future development and wealth. Strong protests arise in Massachusetts, Connecticut and Virginia. Individual land speculators and investment companies also have their dreams dashed, and add their voices to the clamor.

Other American opposition to the Quebec Act stems from a deep-seated hatred of the French. Colonists a decade earlier had celebrated the demise of the French Empire, but now fear that it is making a comeback. Similar feelings about the Catholic Church spark dread in the hearts of Protestant Americans.

The Quebec Act, along with a medley of other distant complaints, lead to the meeting of the First Continental Congress in Philadelphia. Due to lack of solid complaints, but overall yearning for representation, the delegates approve the plan proposed by Joseph Galloway of Pennsylvania. Galloway proposes the creation of an American parliament that would have significant powers of taxation and legislation, but whose acts would need the approval of a governor-general appointed by the Crown.

1775 The two commissioners appointed by the First Continental Congress, John Adams and John Jay, travel to London to present the Galloway Plan of Union to the Duke of Gloucester. They are met by Benjamin Franklin, author of the failed Albany Plan of Union. Together, the three commissioners present the Galloway Plan of Union (which had been modified slightly in order to gain more support in the Continental Congress) to the Regent. William Henry requested that a few small changes be made to the plan and presented to him the following year.

1776 The delegates of the Continental Congress sign the American Act of Union. Almost all are delighted with the new turn of events. Adams and Jay sail for England with the new document. Some, however, such as the radicals Samuel Adams and Patrick Henry, are not so happy about the Act of Union. Adams, Franklin, and Jay present the Act to the king. King George IV, the Duke of Gloucester, and William Pitt all sign the document and send it to the British Parliament, who approve of the Plan (by an extremely tight margin). Adams, Franklin, and Jay return to Philadelphia in Autumn, with the signed Act in hand.

The Act creates the Dominion of America, which becomes an equal of both England and Scotland within the United Kingdom. King George IV will be crowned the King of America (as King George I of America), just as he is the King of England and Scotland. There is a representative of the Crown, appointed on the recommendation of the British Prime Minister, known as the Governor-General. Benjamin Franklin is selected to be the first Governor-General of the Dominion of America.

The Continental Congress, renamed the Continental Parliament, is elevated to the position of a full legislative body, with the sole authority to impose taxes upon the American provinces (no longer known as “coloniesâ€). It is, however, bound to meet a quota in terms of tax revenue set by the king and by the British Parliament. The king has the ability to exercise a veto power over the rulings of the Parliament. Seated in Philadelphia, the new Parliament has a lower house (the House of Assembly) and an upper house (the Senate). Seventeen colonies in the Americas are granted seats in the Continental Parliament. Quebec is a nonvoting observer within the Parliament and is governed by the Dominion of America as a territory.

The head of Parliament, elected by a majority of the members of the House of Assembly and ratified by the Senate (whose members are appointed by the individual provinces), is known as the Prime Minister. Whereas the Governor-General is the representative of the Crown, the Prime Minister is widely regarded as the representative of the American people. At first, the Prime Minister is merely an advisor to the Governor-General and, thus, to the king. Later in the year, as a result of a deal struck between moderates and radicals during the signing of the Act of Union, the Parliament narrowly elects Richard Henry Lee the first Prime Minister of the Dominion of America.
 
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HI walter_Kaufmann great read byt dos the dominion of America have a standing army or navy in the alt time line or are you still relieing on HMs army in the diminon in the your ALT.
 
Provisional Timeline: Part Two

The Dominion of America (House of Hanover)

1777 Governor-General Franklin, Prime Minister Lee, and a host of other members of Parliament attended the official coronation of King George IV as King of America – in London. The fifteen year-old king is accompanied by his uncle, the Duke of Gloucester, who becomes the Regent of America, as well.

The Continental Parliament holds its first entire session as an official, royally-licensed legislative council. During the first session of Parliament, several important bills and measures are passed: 1) the Royal Continental Army is founded to assume the duty of protecting the American provinces, 2) Philadelphia is chosen as the temporary capital of the Dominion until such time as there is enough money to build a new capital (a new capital, though, is not constructed until the Dominion’s independence), 3) the American Prime Minister, unlike his British counterpart, is assigned a term of eight years in office, and 4) a flag is chosen for the Dominion (shown here).

1780 King George IV reaches eighteen years of age. No longer a minor, the Duke of Gloucester steps down after eleven years as the Regent. During the eleven years, the Duke’s influence prevented a war which would have damaged both Britain and America, while retaining royal control over the American colonies and keeping that region relatively happy. The Continental Parliament gives the Duke a hundred square mile parcel of land in Pennsylvania, although William Henry never left England for his prospective American home.

1784 The eight year term of Prime Minister Richard Henry Lee officially comes to an end. The election of the new Prime Minister happens relatively smoothly. While Lee had faced relatively little opposition in his election as the first Prime Minister, for the first time, political parties compete in the process. The Whig candidate, Thomas Jefferson, is soundly defeated by the Tory candidate, Frederick Muhlenberg of Pennsylvania, despite the fact that Jefferson had the half-hearted backing of Lee, a fellow Virginian.

1786 General George Washington resigns as the Commander of the Royal Continental Army. Washington was the first (and last) Commander of the American military to not be fully under the authority of the Parliament and, thus, the Prime Minister. For the previous nine years, Washington had pretty much run all things military within the Dominion of America, including supervision of the removal of a majority of British soldiers from American soil.

Upon Washington’s resignation, Prime Minister Muhlenberg uses his influence with Governor-General Franklin to get both George Washington and Richard Henry Lee knighted. The two are knighted by Governor-General Benjamin Franklin in Philadelphia, the first citizens of the Dominion of America to receive such an honor. Prime Minister Muhlenberg then appoints General Charles Lee (no relation to the former Prime Minister), the new Commander of the Royal Continental Army.

1788 Governor-General Benjamin Franklin dies in Philadelphia at the age of eighty-two. Prime Minister Muhlenberg, former Prime Minister Lee, and the retired General Washington attend the funeral ceremony. King George IV appoints George Washington the new Governor-General of the Dominion of America, as he has proved himself to be both a capable leader and a faithful servant of the Crown.

1789 The Continental Parliament signs the Government Act of 1789, creating an official term-length for the Governor-General. After Franklin’s twelve years in office, it is decided that the Governor-General is best-off to serve a set time. The term-length eventually agreed upon by both the Continental Parliament and the king is six years, half the length of time that Franklin served. Washington’s term began in 1788, and thus ends in 1794.

Meanwhile, in France, resentment of royal absolutism, a semi-feudal system, a growing national debt caused by a grossly inequitable tax system, and a scarcity of food in the immediately preceding years blows up into a popular revolution against King Louis XVI. For eleven years, France would wallow in self-destruction and absolute terror, until a coup-d’état put Napoleon Bonaparte on the thrown in 1800.

1792 The eight year Ministry of Frederick Muhlenberg comes to an end. Muhlenberg will later be noted as the first Prime Minister to exercise any level of authority without the express consent of either the king or the Governor-General. The election for the new Prime Minister sees Thomas Jefferson, a Whig, come out on top. Jefferson is the second Virginian and first official member of the Whig Party to hold the position. His term will be marked by an encouragement of all things agriculture and an opposition to most things industrial.

1794 Washington’s last duty as Governor-General is the organization of the funeral of Richard Henry Lee, the first Prime Minister of the Dominion of America. The sixty-two year old is buried near his family home in Virginia. Although, obviously, unable to attend the funeral service, both King George IV and his Prime Minister, William Pitt the Younger, attend a memorial service held later that year in Philadelphia.

The event marks the first time which a British monarch has set foot on American soil. Following the memorial service, the King takes the opportunity to appoint the new Governor-General and attend his inauguration. The position is, unsurprisingly, given to a conservative, John Dickinson, a lawyer from Pennsylvania and one of the leading proponents of the original Galloway Plan of Union presented at the first Continental Congress. In honor of the king’s first visit to the Dominion, Quebec is granted provincial status within the Continental Parliament.

1795 The Dominion of America declines to join the War of the First Coalition against revolutionary France. When George IV asked Governor-General Dickinson to send soldiers of the Royal Continental Army to join the fighting, Dickinson defers to Prime Minister Jefferson, Commander-in-Chief of the Army. However, Jefferson, himself a former republican, refuses to mobilize in order to crush republicanism in France.

Despite the fact that Jefferson overstepped his bounds as Prime Minister, Governor-General Dickinson manages to sugarcoat Jefferson’s refusal by telling the Crown that, even two decades after its creation, the Dominion still harbors some traces of republicanism itself. Entering into an alliance to crush France would only enflame the republicans within the Dominion. George IV agrees, albeit hesitantly, to honor the wishes of the American Government.

1799 Former Governor-General George Washington dies. Like Lee’s and Franklin’s, Washington’s funeral is an extravagant event. Unlike the others, however, no members of the British Parliament nor members of the royal family attend either the funeral or the memorial service. Because of the ongoing war with France, it is considered too dangerous to risk the lives of the political leaders of Britain for a memorial service.

1800 In France, Napoleon Bonaparte participates in a coup d’état against the republican government. Within the year he moves from head of the Consulate, to Consul-for-life, to Emperor, at which point a new Third Coalition is formed against France. Although they do not begin just yet, Napoleons wars of conquest in both Europe and North America are just about to begin.

Jefferson’s Ministry comes to a bitter end. Faced with incredible opposition from Alexander Hamilton’s Tory Party, who see the continuation of the French Revolution and the rise of Napoleon as a threat to American interests, Jefferson has tainted his party for years to come. He is replaced by Alexander Hamilton, who immediately contacts the British government about joining in the Third Coalition. In doing so, he completely bypasses the newly appointed Governor-General, John Adams.

BTW, I'm just sorta having fun messing around in TTL. I know that many of the events would probably have been butterflied out...
 
I hope you keep it up mate i like where this going and as to Royal Continental America Navy/ RCAN 5 ships off the line 15 to 25 FGs & some 30 sloops 15,000 to 20,000 man?.
 
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