The Soviets were facing a religious-based resistance movement, with a parallel authority structure -the local Imams - directing the populace to die in glory against the infidel invaders. I don't see the Swiss reacting all that different from the French in Vichy France, once the Swiss Forces are neutralized (unintentional pun). There may be some low-level guerrilla campaigning, but the order-loving Swiss populace would probably stump for peace ratehr than whole-scale resistance.
Hitler invades Switzerland
- Thread starter Melvin Loh
- Start date
The Soviets were facing a religious-based resistance movement, with a parallel authority structure -the local Imams - directing the populace to die in glory against the infidel invaders. I don't see the Swiss reacting all that different from the French in Vichy France, once the Swiss Forces are neutralized (unintentional pun). There may be some low-level guerrilla campaigning, but the order-loving Swiss populace would probably stump for peace ratehr than whole-scale resistance.
Hapsburg
Banned
That would be one war he would never be able to win. All the swiss would have to do is blow a few bridges, collapse a few tunnels, and destroy roadways on the borders, and the German armor will have nowhere to go but back the way they came. The Swiss partisans could then wage a guerrilla war from mountain caves and fortresses, and they could easily raise hell for the Germans.
Economically, the Swiss could freeze the German accounts, and totally stop the money-laundering and gold-smuggling operations they were engaging in, which would really fuck up the entire economy of the Third Reich.
Alcuin
Banned
...it was on a history channel program a while ago about the prewar germany...in 1939-before the war started, the nazis held a vote in switzerland to see if the country would like to join the greater german empire......and they almost had a majority....of course that might have changed once the actual war began...but nevertheless...if switzerland hadjoined with nazi germany...they would have had hundreds of thousands of more men they could have used as soldiers on the eastern and later on, the western front, and that could have changed the outcome of the war...
It doesn't matter. If the Swiss have a referendum, they accept the result. In this case, if Hitler invaded to try to impose what the Swiss had voted against, even the Swiss who had voted in favour would lay down their lives to prevent it. It's part of what makes them Swiss, and not German, French or Italian.
Swiss invasion
Actually, the most likely German invasion of Switzerland would have probably been as a means of attacking France--an alternative to going through Belgium. The French studied that possibility, and decided that cutting across a less mountainous portion of Switzerland might be feasible for the Germans.
As I recall it, the Germans ran a disinformation campaign to tie up French troops in guarding against such an attack, but apparently didn't seriously consider it as an option in May 1940.
The Germans and Swiss did engage in a fairly substantial air war in the run up to the invasion of France. The Germans routinely violated Swiss air space and the Swiss routinely shot down German planes. At one point Goring challenged the Swiss with a rather large air incursion, but the Swiss put up a pretty good fight against it. After the fall of France, that little mini-war wound down.
From old and possibly faulty memory, the Swiss had a mix of German and French fighter planes. The German planes were ME109s, and I think the French ones were a Moraine Saulner MS406 variant. I believe that the Swiss license-built a French aircraft engine for that fighter.
One interesting little tidbit about a possible German invasion of Switzerland: If they had done it after the fall of France they would have probably had to fight a considerable number of Poles. A considerable part of a Polish exile division crossed the border into Switzerland after the fall of France. The Swiss interned them, but in such a way that they could have assisted in the defense if the Germans had invaded.
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Actually, the most likely German invasion of Switzerland would have probably been as a means of attacking France--an alternative to going through Belgium. The French studied that possibility, and decided that cutting across a less mountainous portion of Switzerland might be feasible for the Germans.
As I recall it, the Germans ran a disinformation campaign to tie up French troops in guarding against such an attack, but apparently didn't seriously consider it as an option in May 1940.
The Germans and Swiss did engage in a fairly substantial air war in the run up to the invasion of France. The Germans routinely violated Swiss air space and the Swiss routinely shot down German planes. At one point Goring challenged the Swiss with a rather large air incursion, but the Swiss put up a pretty good fight against it. After the fall of France, that little mini-war wound down.
From old and possibly faulty memory, the Swiss had a mix of German and French fighter planes. The German planes were ME109s, and I think the French ones were a Moraine Saulner MS406 variant. I believe that the Swiss license-built a French aircraft engine for that fighter.
One interesting little tidbit about a possible German invasion of Switzerland: If they had done it after the fall of France they would have probably had to fight a considerable number of Poles. A considerable part of a Polish exile division crossed the border into Switzerland after the fall of France. The Swiss interned them, but in such a way that they could have assisted in the defense if the Germans had invaded.
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Check out Dale Cozort's Alternate History Newsletters - nine years worth of Alternate History ideas, scenarios, and fiction.
Yes - the French intelligence actually received more hints of a German invasion of France through Switzerland than an attack through the Ardennes.
The USAAF (and I would imagine the RAF) tangled with the Swiss a few times as well; not hard to understand since the Swiss were flying 109s. A few Swiss cities were also bombed during the Combined Bomber Offensive. A damaged B-17 once crossed the border and crash landed, destroying the house of the head of the Red Cross (who fortunately was not there at the time).
A quick and easy victory of Hitler.
Swiss military retreats to the mountains. All cities, industry, gold bullion and the families of the military do not retreat to the mountains, fall into German hands in the first days. Wehrmacht established perimeter whenever resistance becomes...well, noticeable, maintains seige.
Invasion plus 6 months, no possibility of successful Swiss counter-offensive, much loss of equipment/heavy weapons/air power/troops on the Swiss side, food and other supplies exhausted.
Switzerland surrenders, German losses possibly comparable to that in the invasion of Poland.
Swiss military retreats to the mountains. All cities, industry, gold bullion and the families of the military do not retreat to the mountains, fall into German hands in the first days. Wehrmacht established perimeter whenever resistance becomes...well, noticeable, maintains seige.
Invasion plus 6 months, no possibility of successful Swiss counter-offensive, much loss of equipment/heavy weapons/air power/troops on the Swiss side, food and other supplies exhausted.
Switzerland surrenders, German losses possibly comparable to that in the invasion of Poland.
Guys
The big deterrent, other than that the Swiss would have fought and international opinion would have been seriously impacted, may have been economic. Italy depended heavily on imports from Germany, large quantities of coal for instance, without which its economic and military capacity would be seriously affected. Those imports passed through Switzerland, generally through the various tunnels under the Alps. The Swiss government is supposed to have made clear that if the Axis attacked, even after the country was conquered, this would have been impossible as those tunnels wouldn't be there any more.
Steve
The big deterrent, other than that the Swiss would have fought and international opinion would have been seriously impacted, may have been economic. Italy depended heavily on imports from Germany, large quantities of coal for instance, without which its economic and military capacity would be seriously affected. Those imports passed through Switzerland, generally through the various tunnels under the Alps. The Swiss government is supposed to have made clear that if the Axis attacked, even after the country was conquered, this would have been impossible as those tunnels wouldn't be there any more.
Steve
Two very different things argue against this kind of attack.
One is the AID that a country like Switzerland is to a warring Power. The Swiss could, and did, maintain economic ties with ALL the engaged states during WW II. This was a place that Germany could get hard currency from throughout the war. The Swiss maintained trade with the Reich, including these little things called ball bearing, throughout the war. This provided Germany with a source for ball bearings, as well as many other products while internal German sources were getting the pougies bombed out of them. At the same time, the Swiss were actively trading with the Western allies, including the licensing of newly developed andvanced manufacturing techniques for... (wait for it)... ball bearings. Neutrality can be a very good (and profitable) thing for both the neutral AND the combatant.
The second reason that invading Switzerland was very unlikely is the Return on Investment. The Swiss have, over the course of centuries, created a hedgehog of a country. The terrain is wonderfully suited for defense, the people are fiercely independent, the national militia is what the U.S. Founding Fathers had in mind when they crafted the 2nd Amendment, and it is possible for a small number of defenders to hold the primary access points into the country against a much larger force. The invader would have to largely destroy the country to counquer it, eliminating the reasons for invading in the first place.
German troops would, in all likelyhood, have won out (although the Wermacht's Yugoslavian experience makes this far from a sure best), but at what cost? Is Switzerland worth four or five shattered divisions, especially when you are planning (or at least resigned) to fight a two front war? I would point out that the Germans had more troops tied down in the Balkans fighting insurgents in the mountains than they, at one point, had facing the Western allies in France post D-Day.
In all Switzerland simply wasn't worth the trouble. That was, and still is, the Swiss international strategy. Trade with anyone, treat everyone the same, and be ready to imitate a blowfish if the need arises.
Its a plan that's worked for the better part of the last THOUSAND YEARS; it must has SOME validity.
One is the AID that a country like Switzerland is to a warring Power. The Swiss could, and did, maintain economic ties with ALL the engaged states during WW II. This was a place that Germany could get hard currency from throughout the war. The Swiss maintained trade with the Reich, including these little things called ball bearing, throughout the war. This provided Germany with a source for ball bearings, as well as many other products while internal German sources were getting the pougies bombed out of them. At the same time, the Swiss were actively trading with the Western allies, including the licensing of newly developed andvanced manufacturing techniques for... (wait for it)... ball bearings. Neutrality can be a very good (and profitable) thing for both the neutral AND the combatant.
The second reason that invading Switzerland was very unlikely is the Return on Investment. The Swiss have, over the course of centuries, created a hedgehog of a country. The terrain is wonderfully suited for defense, the people are fiercely independent, the national militia is what the U.S. Founding Fathers had in mind when they crafted the 2nd Amendment, and it is possible for a small number of defenders to hold the primary access points into the country against a much larger force. The invader would have to largely destroy the country to counquer it, eliminating the reasons for invading in the first place.
German troops would, in all likelyhood, have won out (although the Wermacht's Yugoslavian experience makes this far from a sure best), but at what cost? Is Switzerland worth four or five shattered divisions, especially when you are planning (or at least resigned) to fight a two front war? I would point out that the Germans had more troops tied down in the Balkans fighting insurgents in the mountains than they, at one point, had facing the Western allies in France post D-Day.
In all Switzerland simply wasn't worth the trouble. That was, and still is, the Swiss international strategy. Trade with anyone, treat everyone the same, and be ready to imitate a blowfish if the need arises.
Its a plan that's worked for the better part of the last THOUSAND YEARS; it must has SOME validity.
Alcuin
Banned
Its a plan that's worked for the better part of the last THOUSAND YEARS; it must has SOME validity.
Well 350 years to be precise. It's 160 years since Switzerland had any kind of war so you're right. It's a worthwhile strategy... be worth less than the cost of acquisition.
whatisinaname
Donor
For info. Switzerland order of battle, this dates from 1938 but should be close see link - http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/083_switzerland/__army.html
Thanks
Thanks