How would National Socialism look like in a world where Fascism never arises?

[The Banker]

Suppose Mussolini never takes power in Italy. Would Nazism still arise?
The Nazi party predated the March on Rome in any case. But without its ideological father being around, would Nazism still become the ideology it was?

It leads us to a more fundamental question
Is Nazism a separate ideology free of Fascism?

How would Nazism thus look like in a world without Mussolini?
would they still take power?
Would Hitler still be leader?

 

[Arkenfolm]

It would be something like the antisemitic populism of Vienna mayor Karl Lueger which Hitler was inspired by, or the lengthy tradition of populist antisemitism in Germany itself. For instance:

German Reform Party - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

German Social Reform Party - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Christian Social Party (Germany) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some of these antisemitic politicians advocated concepts very similar to the Final Solution in terms of mass deportation and removal of Jews from Germany.

 

[Lalli]

Probably it would be still strongly nationalist but focuses even more (if it is even possible) to antisemitism and revanchism.

 

[Hammerbolt]

The one big diference I see between Hitler & co and the other right-wing parties was his full-on radical "charge forward with revenge/curses jews/national glory" ideas. From what I know, the other parties were a lot more sedate; I don't think they'd, for example, go straight ahead for rearmament and trying to push the limits of the other nation's patience and tolerance.

 

[Polish Eagle]

The one big diference I see between Hitler & co and the other right-wing parties was his full-on radical "charge forward with revenge/curses jews/national glory" ideas. From what I know, the other parties were a lot more sedate; I don't think they'd, for example, go straight ahead for rearmament and trying to push the limits of the other nation's patience and tolerance.

To a large extent, Hitler's ideas can be explained by the influence of white emigres in Munich on his thought, and on his close working relationship with Alfred Rosenberg (who, being a Baltic German, also had close ties to the Whites).

Those influences would still be present without Italian Fascism, and consequently I do think there would be more distance between Nazism and other right-authoritarian movements in Europe (people might not, for example, lump Nazism and Falangism under the "fascist" umbrella, but treat them as two distinct phenomena).

(EDIT: Assuming Falangism even exists ITTL, without the Italian model! We may well end up with a world where German Nazism stands alone, and the Mediterranean models we had IOTL are historical curiosities rather than actual political systems!)

 

[AlexanderDragon]

Probably it would be still strongly nationalist but focuses even more (if it is even possible) to antisemitism

It's not. I struggle deeply to imagine something more antisemitic then "Let's kill all the Jews, everywhere"

I'd argue instead that's there's very little different from Mussolini and many prior authoritarian populist governments, and he simply put a very specific and deeply dramatic aesthetic facade over it. Hitler might come to value electoral politics earlier, but that's really it.

 

[Orko]

An interesting butterfly here is the effect of no beer hall Putsch (which very consciously tried to imitate Mussolini's march on Rome). No beer hall putsch -> no Hitler in prison -> no notoriety for Hitler early on in his career, also no\different Mein Kampf...

 

[BlackDragon98]

To a large extent, Hitler's ideas can be explained by the influence of white emigres in Munich on his thought, and on his close working relationship with Alfred Rosenberg (who, being a Baltic German, also had close ties to the Whites).

"THE RUSSIAN ROOTS OF NAZISM: White Emigres and the Making of National Socialism, 1917–1945 by Micheal Kellogg" is a detailed book about this relatively unknown bit about Nazism.

If Fascism never arose, then Hitler would never lead his Beer Hall Putsch (it was inspired by Mussolini's March on Rome). No Putsch means Ludwig von Scheubner-Richter never dies. This is what I regard as a major divergence point for Nazism, as von Scheubner-Richter was the main link between the White Russians and the Nazis. Funds from Russian emigres would make the NSDAP much wealthier than it was in OTL, and Germany would become a popular destination for White Russian emigres.
His continued survival would lead to a altogether different racial policy for National Socialism, as Slavs (and other related eastern races) wouldn't be classified as subhuman and marked for extermination. This would lead to more cooperation during the Eastern campaigns and likely allow the Reich to successfully destroy the USSR. There would be much less support for partisans, and plenty more manpower for the Germans to mobilize from disaffected Soviet POWs.

However, I can see an eventual return of serfdom in Russia, with a German-White Russian elite class ruling over the deliberately uneducated masses. This would be the likely endpoint following a successful "liberation" of the Ostland. Cossacks would make a major return as the military enforcers of the new German-White Russian elite class, while different minorities such as the Kalmyks and Crimean Tatars would likely be treated with indifference; they would simply work for and pay taxes to new rulers rather than face wholesale extermination.

Those influences would still be present without Italian Fascism, and consequently I do think there would be more distance between Nazism and other right-authoritarian movements in Europe (people might not, for example, lump Nazism and Falangism under the "fascist" umbrella, but treat them as two distinct phenomena).

Even if there was no Fascism, a similar sort of right wing populism would still be present in Italy. The conditions were ripe for such parties to take over. Mussolini and Hitler simply took advantage of the conditions already present; conditions created by the end of WW1.

 

[Polish Eagle]

"THE RUSSIAN ROOTS OF NAZISM: White Emigres and the Making of National Socialism, 1917–1945 by Micheal Kellogg" is a detailed book about this relatively unknown bit about Nazism.

If Fascism never arose, then Hitler would never lead his Beer Hall Putsch (it was inspired by Mussolini's March on Rome). No Putsch means Ludwig von Scheubner-Richter never dies. This is what I regard as a major divergence point for Nazism, as von Scheubner-Richter was the main link between the White Russians and the Nazis. Funds from Russian emigres would make the NSDAP much wealthier than it was in OTL, and Germany would become a popular destination for White Russian emigres.
His continued survival would lead to a altogether different racial policy for National Socialism, as Slavs (and other related eastern races) wouldn't be classified as subhuman and marked for extermination. This would lead to more cooperation during the Eastern campaigns and likely allow the Reich to successfully destroy the USSR. There would be much less support for partisans, and plenty more manpower for the Germans to mobilize from disaffected Soviet POWs.

However, I can see an eventual return of serfdom in Russia, with a German-White Russian elite class ruling over the deliberately uneducated masses. This would be the likely endpoint following a successful "liberation" of the Ostland. Cossacks would make a major return as the military enforcers of the new German-White Russian elite class, while different minorities such as the Kalmyks and Crimean Tatars would likely be treated with indifference; they would simply work for and pay taxes to new rulers rather than face wholesale extermination.

I wonder how badly Poland will suffer due to the "white-brown" alliance. Probably even worse than IOTL. IOTL, Hitler tried to pursue an alliance with Poland, but was rebuffed; ITTL, if he's surrounded by the same White emigres the Polish legions spent a generation fighting, he might not even make that effort. Himmler, similarly, believed that what made Poles dangerous was the large number of German-descended people in the Polish elite class (and sought to Germanize them while abducting Polish children of 'Aryan' descent). Maybe they'll converge on something like a "Judaized renegade Slav" model that ends up saying, "some Poles can be redeemed by returning them to the servility natural to their race and to their Russian brothers; those who refuse will be exterminated."

 

[Zeca Urubu]

Those influences would still be present without Italian Fascism, and consequently I do think there would be more distance between Nazism and other right-authoritarian movements in Europe (people might not, for example, lump Nazism and Falangism under the "fascist" umbrella, but treat them as two distinct phenomena).

(EDIT: Assuming Falangism even exists ITTL, without the Italian model! We may well end up with a world where German Nazism stands alone, and the Mediterranean models we had IOTL are historical curiosities rather than actual political systems!)

imho Falangism probably still rises, the Cercle Proudhon for example preceded the march on rome so i can see it rising just the same, though i agree on it being considered different from one another

 

[jacob ningen]

imho Falangism probably still rises, the Cercle Proudhon for example preceded the march on rome so i can see it rising just the same, though i agree on it being considered different from one an

and Sorel and Frege.

 

[Vabasion]

An ideology trying to combine the social drives and benefits of socialism while appeasing and co-opting nationalism and revanchism would always arise. Nazism was inspired by fascism but fascism wasn’t some huge leap in thinking from contemporary thought. And nazism and fascism are not one and the same. Fascism theoretically does not include racism or race into its calculus. Only nation and service to it. Nazism based it’s ideology not just on nation but race as well.

 

[DUWANG]

May we instead see the word "Nazism" instead being relegated to the likes of the Czech National Social Party? So democratic Socialism/Social Democracy mixed with light Nationalism, or non international democratic Socialism.

In Germany (if the Nazis don't take over), the phrases of "National Socialism" would probably still evoke memories of a far right, anti Semitic party. But there could still be a "Nation-Social Party of Germany" in the future, which in all respect would just be a more right wing old SPD.

 

[Halagaz]

Interesting question. Without the Italian model, the existing German fascist-oid organizations would emerge as a more directly obvious influence. The Hungarian far-right would also probably be looked up to some extent.

Interestingly the Young Turks, or more specifically the Ittihad regime in the Ottoman Empire, were cited by several Nazi ideologues as an inspiration: perhaps in this TL, the Nazis would try to study the Turkish example more closely instead of just paying lip service to it according to the vague information they had available.

Certain things would be different, but some kind of highly violent authoritarian counter to the possibility of socialist revolution would definitely arise. It would be coupled with revanchism in countries who feel that they are entitled to more than they got in the post-1918 order, and with potentially genocidal ideas arising from the general radicalization, endemic racism towards Jews and Slavs, and the increasingly "colonial" approach to various questions. And it would find natural allies and inspirations in the existing far-right paramilitaries, officers' societies and conspiratorial groups such as the Aufbau. Who - while they weren't completely sure what they wanted - definitely had all the basics nailed down even before the rise of Italian fascism.
("The basics" meaning the overthrow of the Versailles treaty and the return to an idealized time when Germany was strong, the military was respected, people did not try to alter their place in society and communism was a harmless theory discussed in coffee houses. Oh yeah, and you know who's to blame for destroying that? Obviously the Jews. Duh.)