No, as in It’s not Balkanized.
One can do a Balkanized India TL, but it needs a POD well before 1862, and a POd specific to the subcontinent IMO
Into the Cincoverse - The Cinco de Mayo EU Thread and Wikibox Repository
- Thread starter KingSweden24
- Start date
One can do a Balkanized India TL, but it needs a POD well before 1862, and a POd specific to the subcontinent IMO
Or outside interference and even then that has to stay or otherwise India/ Hindu and Pakistani Nationalist will want to unify again like they did OTL between the various smaller states and regions.
I'm having some issues copy and pasting infoboxes from Wikipedia lately so today I'm going to open the floor to everybody to talk about... drumroll... airlines!
Specifically, airlines of North America.
Beyond Pan Am, US Airways and Northwest still being alive, I am open to ideas for a fourth legacy carrier in the US and any other airline and airport ideas people may have.
Specifically, airlines of North America.
Beyond Pan Am, US Airways and Northwest still being alive, I am open to ideas for a fourth legacy carrier in the US and any other airline and airport ideas people may have.
My thinking around airline hubs, at least as of right now, is:
Pan Am:
New York (JFK equivalent, obviously not that name) - HQ and fortress hub
San Francisco - Transpacific fortress hub and secondary Latin gateway
Denver - Mid-American domestic fortress and secondary Latin gateway
Chicago - Mid-size hub
Pittsburgh - Focus/domestic reliever city
Los Angeles - Focus city
US Airways:
Chicago - HQ and fortress hub
Philadelphia - Transatlantic fortress
San Diego - Transpacific fortress
Salt Lake City - Mid-size hub
(New York Area) - Mid-size hub
Portland - Focus city, transpacific secondary gateway
Northwest:
Minneapolis - HQ and fortress
Detroit - Fortress
Seattle - Transpacific fortress
Los Angeles - Mid-size hub
Boston, maybe??
Fourth Legacy?
Los Angeles
St. Louis
Newark
Cleveland/Pittsburgh?
??
??
Every one of these airlines IMO should have 5-6 hubs and focus cities, its just a question of how to allocate them.
For non-majors and low-cost carriers, I was thinking having some kind of Alaska equivalent that dominates the West Coast but has no real presence east of the Rockies plus maybe "OG" Frontier, America West, and one other as the Low-Cost Carrier equivalents. Would prefer not to revive JetBlue and Spirit up to present day, lol.
Thoughts?
Pan Am:
New York (JFK equivalent, obviously not that name) - HQ and fortress hub
San Francisco - Transpacific fortress hub and secondary Latin gateway
Denver - Mid-American domestic fortress and secondary Latin gateway
Chicago - Mid-size hub
Pittsburgh - Focus/domestic reliever city
Los Angeles - Focus city
US Airways:
Chicago - HQ and fortress hub
Philadelphia - Transatlantic fortress
San Diego - Transpacific fortress
Salt Lake City - Mid-size hub
(New York Area) - Mid-size hub
Portland - Focus city, transpacific secondary gateway
Northwest:
Minneapolis - HQ and fortress
Detroit - Fortress
Seattle - Transpacific fortress
Los Angeles - Mid-size hub
Boston, maybe??
Fourth Legacy?
Los Angeles
St. Louis
Newark
Cleveland/Pittsburgh?
??
??
Every one of these airlines IMO should have 5-6 hubs and focus cities, its just a question of how to allocate them.
For non-majors and low-cost carriers, I was thinking having some kind of Alaska equivalent that dominates the West Coast but has no real presence east of the Rockies plus maybe "OG" Frontier, America West, and one other as the Low-Cost Carrier equivalents. Would prefer not to revive JetBlue and Spirit up to present day, lol.
Thoughts?
In a timeline where American snowbirds go more to AZ/NM/CA as opposed to Florida I can easily see a regional airline specializing in flights to Phoenix/Santa Fe and the like.
Not Southwest per se (they started off as intra-Texas) but something equivalent.
Not Southwest per se (they started off as intra-Texas) but something equivalent.
One thing to point out is that domestically all of them are going to be focused on cross-country rather than N-S.
There’s a very good chance that American cities stay a good bit denser than IOTL without intensively subsidizing post-WWII suburbanization and with an earlier New Deal landing before automobiles are quite so competitive, and coinciding with the need to rebuild some major cities. No Great Migration is going to remove another push factor.
By 1950 American cities should be cleaner, safer, and whiter than IOTL, removing the main three forces which drove automobile suburbs.
What this means for air travel is that there’s going to be a much bigger (and likely more effective given the government’s increased powers relative to OTL) push for HSR corridors.
Boston-NY-Philadelphia-Baltimore
Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago-St. Louis
San Francisco-Sacramento-Los Angeles-San Diego
Indianapolis-Cincinnati-Columbus-Cleveland
Omaha-Kansas City-OKC
Are all likely to be important passenger rail corridors relative to OFL, where only the former is and even shit Acela service is enough to largely gut air travel in the NE.
About the shortest tenable flights ITTL will be things like NY-Chicago where the HSR link isn’t there and would still take 10 hours if it were.
I like this - this could fit a similar niche to Alaska on the West Coast/America West in the SW
Good point. That was sort of what i figured the niche for America West and Frontier could be, especially the former
Absolutely, I agree entirely with this.
You’d still probably need short hauls for things like NYC-Cleveland or whatever, but the market for, say, NYC-Rochester or even NYC-Boston would be virtually nonexistent.
I’d throw Seattle-Portland and LA-Phoenix and LA-Las Vegas in as major HSR corridors, too.
Only ... better!!!!! *has flashbacks to living in Alaska and having to rely on Alaska Air, hyperventilating *
There’s a reason I’m a Delta loyalist now unless I absolutely have no choice but to take Alaska, and that was def not the case ten years ago
While obviously not going to happen it would be tremendously entertaining for the Keys to end up as an HK-density metropolis filled with old people and service workers for them (and an increasingly vestigial naval base), once it becomes apparent that the CSA will never again be a threat.
Lol.
I think you probably will see some migration to the Florida Keys, at least outside of Key West itself, but probably more of the “mainlanders moving to Puerto Rico or the USVI” variety
I kinda like a scenario where Miami is San Diego East, in that it is a very heavy military town - only the military is the USN based out of Key West. Like, the CSA isn't thrilled that tens of thousands of American sailors basically have the run of Miami but they look the other way as they spend their hard-earned money on wine, women, and song. Every so often some US sailor gets drunk and catcalls the wrong guy's girlfriend at the club and it leads to a shooting and a minor crisis, but otherwise everyone involved is ok with Miami being some combo of San Diego and Tijuana.
My thinking on Miami has been some combo of Cancun, Tijuana, Myrtle Beach and maybe a dash of Vegas. So a bit of San Diego thrown in is fun too!
Based on the suggestions above, here's my thinking on the regional/LCCs:
Alaska (or equivalent):
Seattle (HUB/HQ)
Portland
San Jose
Los Angeles
Midwest:
Milwaukee
Kansas City
Indianapolis
Cincinnati
Buffalo
Frontier:
Denver
Chicago-Peotone (more to come on that...)
Oakland
Phoenix
New York-North Shore
(Midwest Somewhere)
Ontario, CA
America West:
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Santa Fe
Los Angeles/Burbank
Oakland?
Alaska (or equivalent):
Seattle (HUB/HQ)
Portland
San Jose
Los Angeles
Midwest:
Milwaukee
Kansas City
Indianapolis
Cincinnati
Buffalo
Frontier:
Denver
Chicago-Peotone (more to come on that...)
Oakland
Phoenix
New York-North Shore
(Midwest Somewhere)
Ontario, CA
America West:
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Santa Fe
Los Angeles/Burbank
Oakland?
PRA Championship - End of Fall Season Power Rankings
1. Detroit Panthers - After hanging around in the top five positions all fall, Panthers now holds the second spot in the Championship and the same record as Philadelphia Eagles, who get the nod on tiebreakers. Mitch Peterson and Luca Morisi have shown themselves as an enormously complimentary pairing in the back and Panthers have revealed a genuine balance on both sides of the ball. It's hard to find anything bad to say about what this group has achieved in the Fall Season, and with the slide by Eagles over the last few weeks, they look like the best club in the Championship.
2. Philadelphia Eagles - For most of the season, Eagles looked indestructible, aiming to build on their Open Cup win and avenge their Championship loss. They've dropped three straight matches, however, and though they would win the Doritos Cup on tiebreakers if the season ended today, I don't think anybody in Philadelphia is confident that they would advance far in the Playoff if it were held now. The club has a few weeks to get things right before a tough road match at Bears to open Spring Season on January 14th.
3. San Francisco 49ers - Christian McCaffery, George Kittle and company remain in the hunt, a game back from Eagles and Panthers and showing that their dropoff last year was indeed, perhaps, just a swoon compared to the 2020-21 Doritos Cup-winning campaign. San Francisco is aided by having faced most of their more difficult road matches - Philadelphia, Cleveland, Metropolitan - in the Fall Season, and there is a good chance that they end the last weekend of April hoisting the Doritos Cup once again if either Eagles or Panthers falter at all.
4. Chicago Cardinals - Before Fall Season began, the hype in the Windy City was all around Da Bears - but it is in fact the South Side who have surged into a playoff position, and Cardinals look steady out of the back once again with the inimitable Charles Taylor. Their issues across the forward line bit them in some early matches and threaten to erupt again, but Cardinals could in fact make the Championship Playoff with this crew and, as Rams and Eskimos have shown the last two years, maybe even make some real noise.
5. New York Titans - Liam Williams, the Welsh superstar brought over this summer to help pace Julian Montoya and Chase Young, has been a revelation, currently leading the Championship in tries and keeping Titans in the hunt for another Playoff appearance. Injuries are starting to become a concern - James Ryan is unlikely to be back until late April if at all after a brutal leg injury two weekends ago - so it remains to be seen how this club holds up over the next several weeks. The midway break could not have come at a better time for this group.
6. Cleveland Rams - After losing Nick Chubb in the second match, and with Johnny Sexton playing as a substitute off the bench to limit his minutes, one would think that Rams would have seen a massive regression. But, no, they hold the last playoff position at the break, with a chance for rest over the next three weeks before the Spring Season kicks off. An absolutely absurd job by the defending champions, regardless of what happens in the back half.
7. Chicago Bears - The young Bears have not so much taken a step back from their performance last campaign so much as other clubs have stepped up. Jamie Ritchie and the rest of their backfield remains outstanding and have built a fine bank of wins and points to attack the Spring Season with, but if the Playoff began today, they would narrowly miss the sixth position to defending champions Rams. Vic Fangio is a terrific manager, however, and should have them ready for what will be a grueling run for the last two or three spots.
8. Oilers Los Angeles - Oilers have played well considering how hollowed out their roster has been by injuries and their continued dependence on Owen Farrell, who once again has carried this time to the precipice of a Playoff position and a comfortable spot at midtable. Some roster adjustments in the break during the winter signing window would be good after all the transfer whiffs of last summer, because this club could use a boost heading into the early spring. Thankfully, they play their two most difficult matches of Spring Season - San Francisco and Cleveland - at home.
9. Pittsburgh Steelers - The defending 2nd Division champions are, thanks in large part to fly-half Kenneth Brown, sitting at midtable, largely regarded as the goal for Steelers coming into the season. The drop-off behind this club to the rest of the Championship starts to get steep, so there's little risk of Steelers landing in the drop zone, but they have to like their chances to at least contend for their first Playoff since 2011 if they can keep up the pace.
10. Minneapolis Vikings - Vikings, who are clearly just a step behind Steelers on the field and in the table, have to also like sitting at the middle of the pack after placing second in the 2nd Division last year. This is a good side, that has played excellent rugby all Fall Season, but they are definitely not in contention for a Playoff at this time. Just staying where they're at with a solid record by the end of Spring Season is a worthy goal for this club.
11. Metropolitan Rugby Club of New York - It is hard to think of a bigger disappointment in the PRA (with the exception of Seattle being relegated the year after winning the Championship) in the last five years than what Metropolitan has put forth so far this year, with manager Jake Jones already sacked after a tepid Thanksgiving-weekend performance against archrival Titans. How a team with Malcolm Brown, Antoine Dupont, Robert Ntamack and Jack Edwards is languishing three spots out of the drop zone while sporting the most expensive roster in the history of the sport is beyond anyone, and expect heads other than just that of the skipper to roll come April. For now, hopefully new manager Kevin O'Connell can come in, right the ship, and get this group closer to midtable, even though with the names on the roster they really belong much, much higher.
12. Eskimos RFC - Eskimos has taken a gigantic step back this year, as was largely expected after their roster was raided following two unprecedented runs that included a Doritos Cup, and they did not do what we thought and stay in the Playoff hunt. Nonetheless, we'd put them a cut above some of the clubs that are actually hovering around or in the drop zone, and three straight wins in December suggest that maybe the ship is being turned around.
13. Boston Redskins - England's George Ford and Canada's Jevon Holland have played creditably, but the sharp decline in Boston of the rest of the roster after the stars of that remarkable late 2010s dynasty left has not done them any favors. Redskins gets this spot solely due to their not being in the drop zone, though one could see a scenario where they tumble in by May, which would be a remarkable turnabout in fortunes for one of the PRA's most storied clubs - Redskins have not played in the 2nd Division since the 1992-93.
14. Kansas City Chiefs - George Ford seems happy at Boston so far, but Chiefs' misery loves company as Redskins hover near them. Kansas City, narrowly avoiding the drop zone last year thanks to goal difference on the last day, now are once again threatened with a Play-in spot if the season were to end now. Thankfully, it does not, but it is hard to see what will improve about this roster by April to keep them from danger.
15. Green Bay RC - The Packers look moribund, inexperienced and undisciplined, and a drop down into the 2nd Division to gel, add some depth and make some decisions about long-term roster planning post-Jack Edwards may not be the worst idea. Nonetheless, of the three teams currently in the zone, they have had the most grit of any, and having stayed out of the 2nd Division since 1988-89, history appears to be on their side - until it isn't.
16. Chargers RC - Justin Herbert's injury two weekends ago essentially seals it - Chargers will be dropped in late April barring an ahistoric miracle, ending their long run in the PRA Championship and forcing them back down to the 2nd Division. The roster is thin and injured, and winter window signings will only be stanching the bleeding. Expect a wholesale turnover in San Diego this spring.
2. Philadelphia Eagles - For most of the season, Eagles looked indestructible, aiming to build on their Open Cup win and avenge their Championship loss. They've dropped three straight matches, however, and though they would win the Doritos Cup on tiebreakers if the season ended today, I don't think anybody in Philadelphia is confident that they would advance far in the Playoff if it were held now. The club has a few weeks to get things right before a tough road match at Bears to open Spring Season on January 14th.
3. San Francisco 49ers - Christian McCaffery, George Kittle and company remain in the hunt, a game back from Eagles and Panthers and showing that their dropoff last year was indeed, perhaps, just a swoon compared to the 2020-21 Doritos Cup-winning campaign. San Francisco is aided by having faced most of their more difficult road matches - Philadelphia, Cleveland, Metropolitan - in the Fall Season, and there is a good chance that they end the last weekend of April hoisting the Doritos Cup once again if either Eagles or Panthers falter at all.
4. Chicago Cardinals - Before Fall Season began, the hype in the Windy City was all around Da Bears - but it is in fact the South Side who have surged into a playoff position, and Cardinals look steady out of the back once again with the inimitable Charles Taylor. Their issues across the forward line bit them in some early matches and threaten to erupt again, but Cardinals could in fact make the Championship Playoff with this crew and, as Rams and Eskimos have shown the last two years, maybe even make some real noise.
5. New York Titans - Liam Williams, the Welsh superstar brought over this summer to help pace Julian Montoya and Chase Young, has been a revelation, currently leading the Championship in tries and keeping Titans in the hunt for another Playoff appearance. Injuries are starting to become a concern - James Ryan is unlikely to be back until late April if at all after a brutal leg injury two weekends ago - so it remains to be seen how this club holds up over the next several weeks. The midway break could not have come at a better time for this group.
6. Cleveland Rams - After losing Nick Chubb in the second match, and with Johnny Sexton playing as a substitute off the bench to limit his minutes, one would think that Rams would have seen a massive regression. But, no, they hold the last playoff position at the break, with a chance for rest over the next three weeks before the Spring Season kicks off. An absolutely absurd job by the defending champions, regardless of what happens in the back half.
7. Chicago Bears - The young Bears have not so much taken a step back from their performance last campaign so much as other clubs have stepped up. Jamie Ritchie and the rest of their backfield remains outstanding and have built a fine bank of wins and points to attack the Spring Season with, but if the Playoff began today, they would narrowly miss the sixth position to defending champions Rams. Vic Fangio is a terrific manager, however, and should have them ready for what will be a grueling run for the last two or three spots.
8. Oilers Los Angeles - Oilers have played well considering how hollowed out their roster has been by injuries and their continued dependence on Owen Farrell, who once again has carried this time to the precipice of a Playoff position and a comfortable spot at midtable. Some roster adjustments in the break during the winter signing window would be good after all the transfer whiffs of last summer, because this club could use a boost heading into the early spring. Thankfully, they play their two most difficult matches of Spring Season - San Francisco and Cleveland - at home.
9. Pittsburgh Steelers - The defending 2nd Division champions are, thanks in large part to fly-half Kenneth Brown, sitting at midtable, largely regarded as the goal for Steelers coming into the season. The drop-off behind this club to the rest of the Championship starts to get steep, so there's little risk of Steelers landing in the drop zone, but they have to like their chances to at least contend for their first Playoff since 2011 if they can keep up the pace.
10. Minneapolis Vikings - Vikings, who are clearly just a step behind Steelers on the field and in the table, have to also like sitting at the middle of the pack after placing second in the 2nd Division last year. This is a good side, that has played excellent rugby all Fall Season, but they are definitely not in contention for a Playoff at this time. Just staying where they're at with a solid record by the end of Spring Season is a worthy goal for this club.
11. Metropolitan Rugby Club of New York - It is hard to think of a bigger disappointment in the PRA (with the exception of Seattle being relegated the year after winning the Championship) in the last five years than what Metropolitan has put forth so far this year, with manager Jake Jones already sacked after a tepid Thanksgiving-weekend performance against archrival Titans. How a team with Malcolm Brown, Antoine Dupont, Robert Ntamack and Jack Edwards is languishing three spots out of the drop zone while sporting the most expensive roster in the history of the sport is beyond anyone, and expect heads other than just that of the skipper to roll come April. For now, hopefully new manager Kevin O'Connell can come in, right the ship, and get this group closer to midtable, even though with the names on the roster they really belong much, much higher.
12. Eskimos RFC - Eskimos has taken a gigantic step back this year, as was largely expected after their roster was raided following two unprecedented runs that included a Doritos Cup, and they did not do what we thought and stay in the Playoff hunt. Nonetheless, we'd put them a cut above some of the clubs that are actually hovering around or in the drop zone, and three straight wins in December suggest that maybe the ship is being turned around.
13. Boston Redskins - England's George Ford and Canada's Jevon Holland have played creditably, but the sharp decline in Boston of the rest of the roster after the stars of that remarkable late 2010s dynasty left has not done them any favors. Redskins gets this spot solely due to their not being in the drop zone, though one could see a scenario where they tumble in by May, which would be a remarkable turnabout in fortunes for one of the PRA's most storied clubs - Redskins have not played in the 2nd Division since the 1992-93.
14. Kansas City Chiefs - George Ford seems happy at Boston so far, but Chiefs' misery loves company as Redskins hover near them. Kansas City, narrowly avoiding the drop zone last year thanks to goal difference on the last day, now are once again threatened with a Play-in spot if the season were to end now. Thankfully, it does not, but it is hard to see what will improve about this roster by April to keep them from danger.
15. Green Bay RC - The Packers look moribund, inexperienced and undisciplined, and a drop down into the 2nd Division to gel, add some depth and make some decisions about long-term roster planning post-Jack Edwards may not be the worst idea. Nonetheless, of the three teams currently in the zone, they have had the most grit of any, and having stayed out of the 2nd Division since 1988-89, history appears to be on their side - until it isn't.
16. Chargers RC - Justin Herbert's injury two weekends ago essentially seals it - Chargers will be dropped in late April barring an ahistoric miracle, ending their long run in the PRA Championship and forcing them back down to the 2nd Division. The roster is thin and injured, and winter window signings will only be stanching the bleeding. Expect a wholesale turnover in San Diego this spring.
🐻⬇️
Also, feels like Chicago has a bit of OTL NYC - Bears fans are probably also Cubs fans while Cardinals fans are probably also White Sox fans. Similar to the stereotypical Giants/Yankees/Rangers fan compared to the Mets/Jets/Islanders fans.
Also, feels like Chicago has a bit of OTL NYC - Bears fans are probably also Cubs fans while Cardinals fans are probably also White Sox fans. Similar to the stereotypical Giants/Yankees/Rangers fan compared to the Mets/Jets/Islanders fans.
Oh, definitely. That’s in fact what inspired it, though the geographical Northside/Southside dynamic of Cubs/Bears vs White Sox/Cardinals is a bit more clear cut than how NY’s sports teams work out
Hermosillo would make a lot of sense as a spring training site; as would Monterey