King Adam Kazimierz Czartoryski of Poland

[Socrates]

Let's assume Catherine's coup against Peter III fails. There's a tip off and he escapes the guard regiments. The Russian army turns up, arrests everyone, sends Catherine to a convent and executes others. Peter marries his mistress and emerges from the coup stronger than ever before. He gets free choice over the King of Poland, and selects his OTL preference: Adam Czartoryski, the leader of the Russophile faction in Polish politics.

How does King Adam rule? How much does he push reform and centralization of Poland? How close does he stay to Russia and he willing is he to offend Peter III?

 

[Socrates]

Any Poland experts on the board?

 

[Yuhaoyang]

@Jan Olbracht @Zygmunt Stary @marcinL

 

[ahmedali]

Russia always wanted a Poland strong enough to be an enemy of Austria in Russia



But weak enough to pose a threat to the Russians



Peter III the first thing outsiders will do is try to destroy Denmark for the sake of Schilwich-Holstein



Of course, after trying to impose massive reforms, the Russian army and the state spoke out to strengthen its power against the Russian nobility


(consistent with his era)



So I can see it allying with Sweden, Prussia and Poland against Denmark



(And the possibility of Austria and Saxony on the side of Denmark, with France being with the Russians, and Britain and the Netherlands with the Danes)



If he wins, I can see Prussia win Swedish Pomerania and Saxony in exchange for Sweden giving Norway and the Elector of Saxony giving Hanover



The Russians win Schlewich-Holstein and greatly weaken Denmark

 

[CommonwealthVictory]

As King of Czartoryski, he would undertake similar activities as Ponatowski, with the difference that he would have placed more emphasis on the development of the territory of the Lithuanian Grand Duchy. Depending on the Tsar’s support, he would see the Sejm strengthen, while weakening the liberum veto, but maintaining the King’s relatively weak position.

 

[Socrates]

As King of Czartoryski, he would undertake similar activities as Ponatowski, with the difference that he would have placed more emphasis on the development of the territory of the Lithuanian Grand Duchy. Depending on the Tsar’s support, he would see the Sejm strengthen, while weakening the liberum veto, but maintaining the King’s relatively weak position.

Can you elaborate on why he would do each of these things?

 

[CommonwealthVictory]

Can you elaborate on why he would do each of these things?

The Czartoryski family belonged to the Lithuanian nobility, so it would be natural to focus more on these areas. From what I think he was also a freemason, so that he would no longer survive the king’s power, but would rather try to support the authorities in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth on the Reformed Sejm. As far as limiting the liberum veto is concerned, its aim was to exclude the possibility of other states influencing Poland’s policies, which could, thanks to this institution, limit Russia’s influence in Poland in order to paralyse the country, especially during armed conflicts.

 

[Socrates]

The Czartoryski family belonged to the Lithuanian nobility, so it would be natural to focus more on these areas. From what I think he was also a freemason, so that he would no longer survive the king’s power, but would rather try to support the authorities in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth on the Reformed Sejm. As far as limiting the liberum veto is concerned, its aim was to exclude the possibility of other states influencing Poland’s policies, which could, thanks to this institution, limit Russia’s influence in Poland in order to paralyse the country, especially during armed conflicts.

Would his Lithuanianess upset the Polish half of the Conmonwealth? Would his strengthening of Poland result in Russian intervention from Peter III?

 

[Jan Olbracht]

IOTL August Aleksander Czartoryski felt humiliated by the fact, that it was not his son but poor cousin Poniatowski who was elected. Czartoryski thus was on bad terms with Poniatowski and sabotaged his actions out of spite. It would not happen if his son was the king.

 

[CommonwealthVictory]

Czy jego litewskość zdenerwowałaby polską połowę Rzeczypospolitej? Czy jego umocnienie Polski skutkowałoby rosyjską interwencją Piotra III?

At that time, the higher Lithuanian nobility was already completely Polonized, so his Lithuanian origin would, in my opinion, only cause that, Polish Enlightenment would spread more in Lithuania especially among the lower and middle nobility. As for possible Russian intervention, it would depend on the possible international situation, but the reforms themselves to strengthen the Sejm would be less dangerous than those strengthening the king. During a free election, someone hostile to Russia could become king.