"Luke, I am...your morther!" A different Star Wars

Umbral

The first Star Wars trilogy has been a hugely important cultural phenomenon.

Its financial success also spawned a massive number of sci-fi movies and franchises. It was influential to the point where I hear that movies with sci-fi elements had to insert the word "star" in the title to get funded (Deep Star Six)

Now we binge-watched the first trilogy last weekend, and a friend suggested that at the end of "Empire strikes back", Darth Vaders line could almost as easily have been "Luke I am your mother"

Bulky cybernetics and suit, face mask, voice box... a few changes to the way Obi-wan referred to Vader as "he" previously is all it'd take.

How would this affect fandom as a culture and subsequent sci-fi if Darth Vader, the most badass evil overlord ever seen was revealed to be a woman in the second movie?
 

jahenders

Banned
I think it would be a flop. People would have a hard time accepting that the hulking, menacing bad guy was a girl.

Umbral said:
The first Star Wars trilogy has been a hugely important cultural phenomenon.

Its financial success also spawned a massive number of sci-fi movies and franchises. It was influential to the point where I hear that movies with sci-fi elements had to insert the word "star" in the title to get funded (Deep Star Six)

Now we binge-watched the first trilogy last weekend, and a friend suggested that at the end of "Empire strikes back", Darth Vaders line could almost as easily have been "Luke I am your mother"

Bulky cybernetics and suit, face mask, voice box... a few changes to the way Obi-wan referred to Vader as "he" previously is all it'd take.

How would this affect fandom as a culture and subsequent sci-fi if Darth Vader, the most badass evil overlord ever seen was revealed to be a woman in the second movie?
Click to expand...
 

Umbral

It was pretty well established as huge by the time "Empire" came around, and the rest of the movies is generally regarded as solid. It would just add a twist to the reveal at the end. I mean, the franchise survived the Ewoks and later Jar Jar Binks.
 

jahenders

Banned
Ok, that's true and they even survived the horror that was teenage Anakin stupidly turning into Darth Vader (though they're forever wounded in my eyes).

If it's really a reveal, it seems like it could be pretty hokey unless it was planned for all along and someone other than Prowse used for Vader (someone shorter). I mean, if they use Prowse and almost everything else is the same and then you take off the suit and it's a 5' tall dimunitive woman on stilts and with big padded shoulders, it'd be pretty silly.

Umbral said:
It was pretty well established as huge by the time "Empire" came around, and the rest of the movies is generally regarded as solid. It would just add a twist to the reveal at the end. I mean, the franchise survived the Ewoks and later Jar Jar Binks.
Click to expand...
 

zert

I could see this as a set up in a parody. Darth Vader as a trans woman, to explain the larger size and bulk.

For the actual Empire, I think it is not a success.
 
Beedok

Beedok

Has someone been reading Darth's and Droids?

Anyway, the size thing isn't an issue. You're not going to make your bionic death amazon woman with small robot limbs are you? The bigger issue is the voice, James Earl Jones isn't exactly someone with an androgenous voice.
 
jpj1421

jpj1421

Beedok said:
Has someone been reading Darth's and Droids?

Anyway, the size thing isn't an issue. You're not going to make your bionic death amazon woman with small robot limbs are you? The bigger issue is the voice, James Earl Jones isn't exactly someone with an androgenous voice.
Click to expand...

Man, Darths and Droids is a amazing. Jar Jar, you're a genius!
 
WanderingWanderer

WanderingWanderer

The bigger issue is the voice, James Earl Jones isn't exactly someone with an androgenous voice
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Nor is he the voice of a whiny Canadian brat, yet the prequels still happened ;)

JEJ's voice can just be an artificial machine voice, has no bearing on Vader's gender. Kenobi sadly would be an even bigger liar in this version...or perhaps he now has a legitimate excuse :D

"Ben, why didn't you tell me?"

"Would ANYONE believe me if I told them the hulking menacing Vader was a petite elected queen from a planet called Naboo?"

"Yeah, good point, Ben!"

Of course, thanks to Game of Thrones we now have a perfect actress for this "lady Vader" (she's even starring in the SW Episode 7!).
 

Amelikite

I think, that sooner or later, someone is going to notice that they kept calling the sith, Lord, not Lady Vader!
 

Scafcom

Luke I am your mother!!

It did happen, so to speak. Thumb Wars: the phantom cuticle, used that gag as one of the big reveals toward the end of the program.
 
oshron

oshron

Amelikite said:
I think, that sooner or later, someone is going to notice that they kept calling the sith, Lord, not Lady Vader!
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in point of fact, there are actually historical instances where women were addressed with traditionally male titles, such as Mary I being known as the Prince of Wales--not Princess--before she ascended to the throne, and for another, the actual title for the Emperor of Japan translates to gender-neutral "heavenly sovereign"
 

Amelikite

oshron said:
in point of fact, there are actually historical instances where women were addressed with traditionally male titles, such as Mary I being known as the Prince of Wales--not Princess--before she ascended to the throne, and for another, the actual title for the Emperor of Japan translates to gender-neutral "heavenly sovereign"
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And you were going to stand up,and explain this in cinemas to film audiences were you? On behalf of Lucasfilm?
btw
Vives and others called her the Princess of wales, although she was never technically invested with the title.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_I_of_England#cite_note-21
Still I'm sure that you could always try to persuade me that there was a 'King' of Poland named Jadwiga
 
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Umbral

As for the movie issue, I was thinking the following needed to be changed: Replace a few instances of Ben Kenobi referring to Vader as "he". Keep James Earl Jones as the voice, but up the distortion a bit so you can hear it as something produced by a damaged voicebox, rather than deep and masculine.

Keep the size of Vader, it is within human female range and Vader is, according to Kenobi, mostly machine anyway. Don't refer to Vader as a Sith "Lord". Most people in-universe do not know Vaders name, origin or gender, and Vader does not care. Anyone who makes an issue of it can be removed by force-choke and eventually the survivors will get the message.

As for the background story: Humans are very, very rarely force-sensitive but tend to be powerful when they are. The "Jedi are not supposed to fall in love" tenet reduces the reproduction of force-trained humans, something the other species are very OK with.

The Emperor disagrees with this restriction. (Lots of species in the Star Wars universe, did we ever see the Emperor with a anyone who was not a human? The Rebels were a rainbow of species, the Empire was human all the way.)

Palpatine encourages the romance of two human Jedi, Anakin and...lets call her Amidala though I don't see her having much in common with Episode 1-3s Amidala. Amidala agrees with Palpatines human supremacy agenda, Anakin does not. It ends with Vader killing Anakin some time after the birth of Luke. Kenobi snatches Luke during the battle. (So this Vader knows there is a kid out there. The original trilogy's Vader pegged Luke as his son from nothing after a brief episode of trying to shoot him when they were in different spaceships.)
Kenobi told the truth about what happened to Anakin.

The Emperor especially expects Luke, as the child of two Jedi, to become an exceptional force-user, leading to his focus on the boy.

But honestly, I was more interested in the impact of geek culture if Vader, an established badass who actually were sufficiently ambiguous to that it would be possible, turned out to be female without it being made a huge point of in the movie.. Star Wars was already huge at the time. and a carrier of geek culture.
 
WanderingWanderer

WanderingWanderer

Palpatine encourages the romance of two human Jedi, Anakin and...lets call her Amidala though I don't see her having much in common with Episode 1-3s Amidala.
Click to expand...

Awww, Palpy the matchmaker, I like this version of Palpatine :D Did he arrange dates for them, book secret motel reservations, teach great romantic pick-up lines such as "I hate sand..." :p
 
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