More Hellenistic, less Arabized Caliphate?

Deleted member 157939

The nature of the Islamic/Caliphal conquests and the subsequent social effects as a result are extremely fascinating. The Caliphates of the Rashidun, Umayyad and Abbasids were unique in a historical context, they where distinctly Arab in character through their culture, customs, ruling elite and ideals. Therefore the conquests and invasions they embarked on would see through the rapid expansion of these aspects, much of the territories seized would undergo the process of Arabization, albeit some much more gradually then the others. Islamic conquest would enlarge the sphere of Arabism outward and on a massive scale. However in spite of the Arab supremacist nature of the Umayyad Caliphate, the developing cultural character of these regions and indeed the Caliphal government itself was influence/inherited aspects of the previously dominant societies of the conquered lands (Roman/Hellenic, Berber, Jewish and Mesopotamian). Most notably would be Persianate culture, which would prove to be the most influential, especially during the Abbasid era. It is particularly interesting to observe the early Muslim community apparent deep respect and fascination with the Byzantines, such adoration began to wain with the ascendancy of the Banu Umayya and their strides toward asserting Arab supremacy.

Arabisation was most likely inevitable considering how intrinsic it was to the Islamic expansions, akin to the amplification of Hellenism with the conquests of Alexander the Great. However the degree of Arabisation that occurred can be attributed to events in the formative era of the Caliphates, primarily the ascendancy of the Banu Ummayya. The Ummayads pursued Arabisation, personified by the Arab ruling elite comprising of warriors, clergy and intellectuals. The Ummayads would introduce polices reducing the rights of Dhimmi in Caliphal courts, dismissed many converts and dhimmi's from government positions, increasing the rate of jizya and levied jizya on Non-Arab convert communities. Furthermore the Ummayad Caliphate marked a development of Arab attitudes towards the Romans, with that in consideration preventing their rise to the stature of Caliph could possibly result in a more Hellenistic, less Arabised Caliphate.

Other potential divergences could be a Kharijite Caliphate (who where adamant a non-Arab could hold the position of Caliph) or the Rashidun/Ummayads capturing further territory from the ERE, albeit the latter is unlikely to reduce the rate of Arabisation. Mu'awiya could follow the original terms of the abrogation and allow the Shura Council to elect a Caliph following his death, rather then declare Yazid his successor. Considering the multitude of possibilities that could of occurred, what other PODs could cause such an alternate Caliphate (more Hellenised, less Arabized) to exist? What would the cultural and linguistic dynamics of such a Caliphate be? Could there be a Persianate backlash as a result? Perhaps a conflict could ensue between A Persian-influenced Iraq and east Arabia, Hellinistic Egypt and Levant, and Berber North Africa?
 
However in spite of the Arab supremacist nature of the Umayyad Caliphate,
More than Arab, jundist supremacists, the Banu ummayds power relied a lot of jundist from Arabia and Syria, and military men tends to be very jingoistic, so ummayds just use them as powerbase, ummayds as a whole were very tolerant, maybe too much were criticize for not pushing conversions among the non Muslim as fast some wished ( they loved too much that jyzia money it seems)



that could of occurred, what other PODs could cause such an alternate Caliphate (more Hellenised, less Arabized) to exist?
Short of winning either Constantinople (674-678 or 713-717) them is very hard, for the Muslim and Arabs, the Grecco-roman were when an unique culture, still the enemy, meaning their interactions were limited to the books they bought/captured and converts and prisoners. If they beat the ERE and do a dash to conquer the Aegean and the Balkans, them Greeks become the third Islamic Core alongside Persians and Arabs.
 

Deleted member 157939

Short of winning either Constantinople (674-678 or 713-717) them is very hard, for the Muslim and Arabs, the Grecco-roman were when an unique culture, still the enemy, meaning their interactions were limited to the books they bought/captured and converts and prisoners. If they beat the ERE and do a dash to conquer the Aegean and the Balkans, them Greeks become the third Islamic Core alongside Persians and Arabs.
I disagree, cultural Hellinization could still occur without the conquest of the Byzantine Empire itself. You can find early Islamic Art and architecture clearly routed in Roman/Hellenic design.
 
I disagree, cultural Hellinization could still occur without the conquest of the Byzantine Empire itself. You can find early Islamic Art and architecture clearly routed in Roman/Hellenic design.
Yeah but was very limited to whatever they captured or get via trade/migrations. And once Persians becomes a permanent core of Islam, why care such enemy culture when Persian one is as rich or even richer, easier to get and followed by fellow Muslims, something similar could have happened if the opposite happened. The Sassanid accepted Umar peace and ere was fully conquered, the caliphate would have took the cultural cue one of their core regions. The same if didn't get ere but Italy-rome, we would see romance languages more common among Muslims.

Plus that wasn't coincidence, a lot of Syriacs loved roman culture even if hated the ERE( those would become the ummayds powerbase BTW)


So short getting the cultural centre of Grecco-roman culture, Muslim would goes as OTL.
 
I disagree, cultural Hellinization could still occur without the conquest of the Byzantine Empire itself. You can find early Islamic Art and architecture clearly routed in Roman/Hellenic design.
Should be romanization as at the time Hellene means pagan/polytheists , and I repeat my point , short of winning either Constantinople, otl showed that just very little

We discussed it here.
 
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May be avoid the arabization of the Syrian, Egytpian and Mesopotamian Bureaucracy by Abd Al Malik
The Thing is, he is just making official the standard, plus as said before, keeping the language of an enemy over the language of the Holy Qu'ran would be seen as weird for some..
 
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