Name of a Portuguese South Africa?
- Thread starter NiGHTS
- Start date
Portugal had a habit of naming colonies after local resources. Hence why Brazil is named after Brazil wood or the island Mandeira literally means "wood" in English. Seems strange to me, but they seemed to like it.
South Africa was (and still is) famous for its gold and jewels. Gold would be "Ouro" and Diamond would be "Diamante." It doesn't seem totally unreasonable that the Portuguese would at least consider these names.
South Africa was (and still is) famous for its gold and jewels. Gold would be "Ouro" and Diamond would be "Diamante." It doesn't seem totally unreasonable that the Portuguese would at least consider these names.
That would be pretty cool. Ouro would be gold as Argentina is to silver.
Miguel Lanius
Banned
Pity the Portuguese prefered hopeful names to badass names
"Cape of Storms" sounds badass in both portuguese and english.
"Cape of Storms" sounds badass in both portuguese and english.
I think it would depend whether they treat it more like Mozambique & Angola where poetugese remained a very small group, in which they may choose a local name (Cóisã?).
If they however become a significant part of the population like the dutch & english in otl they probably come up with a name of their own, Ouro sounds cool.
If they however become a significant part of the population like the dutch & english in otl they probably come up with a name of their own, Ouro sounds cool.
Let's say the Portuguese settle large parts of South Africa. It basically becomes an African Brazil in TTL.
But wouldn't a Brazilian South Africa have been well established by the time they ventured out into the Transvaal?
portugese southern africa would be interesting in how it dfifered to boer and english southern africa due to their likely willingness to integrate mixed race subjects into the ruling class, likeyl giving them voting rights and integrating them into the white portugese populace.
Miguel Lanius
Banned
You guys need to add more saints' names. I'm pretty sure they could't see a rock without calling it "Rock of Santa Maria" or something.
Terra Natalis - the name given by da Gama to modern Natal province.
That is the Portuguese name for part of South Africa; if no one else claimed any of it, it might be extended to the whole.
That is the Portuguese name for part of South Africa; if no one else claimed any of it, it might be extended to the whole.
Natal can work (although a bit awkward) , so can Tormentas
The unwillingness to put mixed race people in the ruling class is almost entirely an American and South African thing, spanish, french accepted mestizos/gens libre de couleurs, brits accepted mixed race childs and wealthy creole in the carribean... this stereotype mostly comes from Brazil (for obvious reasons) and the fact that Portugal lacked so much manpower in African and Asia (both because of the coutry’s small scale and the high death rate from illness) that they naturally couldn’t afford to discriminate, in some places in Asia they even only cared if someone was Christian and understood Portuguese (at some point timor had virtually no Portuguese on it except some jesuits and the entire “administration” were converted locals who could speak Portuguese) They accepted Mixed race in Angola/Mozambique before the 20th century because they mattered, when they started sending hundreds of thousands of Portuguese post ww2 the mixed minority suddenly was often excluded from important job and the administration (and nearly 15% of the mixed races of Angola weren’t even considered “assimilados”, aka had the same right as White Portuguese)
Anyway quite a bit has been said about a Portuguese Southern Africa, I just want to say that where they colony is started matters a lot, make it in irl natal or Lourenço Marques and while it may be regionally important it will still be a disease ridden backwater (maybe not to the extent of say Luanda, but it won’t be a thriving settler colony), Portugal after all sent over a hundred thousand (at least!) people to Angola in the 4 centuries before 1900, yet most died or left.
If they start it in the more attractive cape, the settlers will adapt more quickly, and the Khoisan will sadly be assimilated as IRL into a mixed race population, although if there is a much larger Portuguese population than irl Dutch were, the coloured (current SA term) populaiton will likely become a minority among the white population of the cape , the opposite of irl where they are nearly 3 times more than whites in the western cape - a likely scenario since the Dutch were particularly poor settlers and Portuguese managed to send much more people oversea, and make them stick there (Portugal being a poor country certainly helped).
The downside of the cape is that it will take longer until someone discovers the rand’s immense ressources, which will be a truly transformative period for Southern Africa, even more than the discovery of the Gold in the minas Gerais was for Brazil. This - if Portugal still controls South Africa by this point - will likely change the colony from a strategic but secondary one to one that can rival or even exceed Brazil (if Portugal still has it/ever had it). Irl it took more than 200 years for the Afrikaner to discover it, and that was with the great Trek, although the larger population could speed things up.. It will be significantly quicker if they start exploring from irl Maputo.
The unwillingness to put mixed race people in the ruling class is almost entirely an American and South African thing, spanish, french accepted mestizos/gens libre de couleurs, brits accepted mixed race childs and wealthy creole in the carribean... this stereotype mostly comes from Brazil (for obvious reasons) and the fact that Portugal lacked so much manpower in African and Asia (both because of the coutry’s small scale and the high death rate from illness) that they naturally couldn’t afford to discriminate, in some places in Asia they even only cared if someone was Christian and understood Portuguese (at some point timor had virtually no Portuguese on it except some jesuits and the entire “administration” were converted locals who could speak Portuguese) They accepted Mixed race in Angola/Mozambique before the 20th century because they mattered, when they started sending hundreds of thousands of Portuguese post ww2 the mixed minority suddenly was often excluded from important job and the administration (and nearly 15% of the mixed races of Angola weren’t even considered “assimilados”, aka had the same right as White Portuguese)
Anyway quite a bit has been said about a Portuguese Southern Africa, I just want to say that where they colony is started matters a lot, make it in irl natal or Lourenço Marques and while it may be regionally important it will still be a disease ridden backwater (maybe not to the extent of say Luanda, but it won’t be a thriving settler colony), Portugal after all sent over a hundred thousand (at least!) people to Angola in the 4 centuries before 1900, yet most died or left.
If they start it in the more attractive cape, the settlers will adapt more quickly, and the Khoisan will sadly be assimilated as IRL into a mixed race population, although if there is a much larger Portuguese population than irl Dutch were, the coloured (current SA term) populaiton will likely become a minority among the white population of the cape , the opposite of irl where they are nearly 3 times more than whites in the western cape - a likely scenario since the Dutch were particularly poor settlers and Portuguese managed to send much more people oversea, and make them stick there (Portugal being a poor country certainly helped).
The downside of the cape is that it will take longer until someone discovers the rand’s immense ressources, which will be a truly transformative period for Southern Africa, even more than the discovery of the Gold in the minas Gerais was for Brazil. This - if Portugal still controls South Africa by this point - will likely change the colony from a strategic but secondary one to one that can rival or even exceed Brazil (if Portugal still has it/ever had it). Irl it took more than 200 years for the Afrikaner to discover it, and that was with the great Trek, although the larger population could speed things up.. It will be significantly quicker if they start exploring from irl Maputo.
Last edited:
What is the etymology of "Azania" anyway? Was it Khoisan word?
Would any Khoisan placenames have included a "click" sound that's very awkward for Europeans to pronounce?
What's the etymology of Brazil wood? Does it ultimately trace back to the Hy Braseal legend?
Would any Khoisan placenames have included a "click" sound that's very awkward for Europeans to pronounce?
What's the etymology of Brazil wood? Does it ultimately trace back to the Hy Braseal legend?