WI the JWs never got started as a cult back in the 1830s ? WI they'd been totally debunked as a serious organisation after the failure of their prophecies for Christ's return from the 1840s onwards ?
No Jehovah's Witnesses
- Thread starter Melvin Loh
- Start date
Melvin Loh said:
A lot of people would be more happy, as they won't have to suffer receiving unwelcomed and daily visits from members of that sect .
Leo Caesius
Banned
This is hardly fair. I know plenty of Jehovah's Witnesses and while I don't necessarily agree with everything that they say, I would hardly categorize them as a cult. If I were to post a WI along these lines:
WI the Christians never got started as a cult back in the 1st c. CE? WI they'd been totally debunked as a serious organisation after the failure of Christ's prophecies for his return (Matthew 23, 24) from the 1st c. onwards?
I'd be condemned for posting flame bait, and rightly so.Othniel said:
Yes, but substitute 'Christian' for 'Jehova's Witnesses' and 'Jew' for 'Christian' and you have the first century in a nutshell
Melvin Loh said:
Melvin, you have really got to think twice about posting threads that are obvious flamebait. Cult is generally a pretty offensive term to use for religions, and looking at this two-sentence post you don't make any AH speculations about it yourself, there is nothing to keep someone from interpreting this in a hostile way.
I mean, come on guys, show a little common sense and civility. Some topics are inherently controversial, and when dealing with that putting in offensive cracks and rude language just begs people to get pissed off.
During the first century Christian views lined up with jews perfectly except for that they believed that their messiah had come. That was the sole difference within the first century. After the revolt in 70 AD, you see the divide become very clear. In fact intil the missions of Paul (not mention Peter's converting of Copernicous.) there was barely a Gentile among them.carlton_bach said:Yes, but substitute 'Christian' for 'Jehova's Witnesses' and 'Jew' for 'Christian' and you have the first century in a nutshell
Disappointment of 1844
POD would be that William Miller either
1] Never existed
2] Existed but never developed an interest in historicist eschatology
3] Mathematically proved the Apocalypse is 2411 (or some other far future date)
Jehovah's Witnesses emerged from the people standing on their roofs in 1844--as did the Seventh Day Adventists who would also disappear
POD would be that William Miller either
1] Never existed
2] Existed but never developed an interest in historicist eschatology
3] Mathematically proved the Apocalypse is 2411 (or some other far future date)
Jehovah's Witnesses emerged from the people standing on their roofs in 1844--as did the Seventh Day Adventists who would also disappear
I'm going to say, as a Christian, that anybody that attempts to figure out extactly when Christ will return will get my speculation and most likely a theological distrust. Also those of the opinion that the scipture is superceeded by their prophecies if in direct condradiction will also get my distrust. Those that 'fix' the bible will not get my approval, and I'll tend to think of them as invalid because this behavior is often away from what I myself get from reading the bible.
Just to clairify why I said what I did in view of the JWs.
Just to clairify why I said what I did in view of the JWs.
The difference between a cult and a religion can get pretty blurry at times. I think there's a saying that goes something like "A religion is a cult that outlasts its founder or founders and still continues to grow".
Othniel said:
You're from Utah right? I'm guessing you're a Mormon. As a member of a religion considered to be almost as far derived from the Christian norm as the Witnesses, I would think you would be more tolerant. The Baptists I know hate both Mormons and Witnesses with equal ire. Well, hate is a strong word, but consider them not only unchristian (like catholics) but actually heretical/cultish.
Everyone I have ever known from Utah is either Mormon or Catholic. I'm sorry if I made the wrong supposition. I'm not religious at all, and it's not my place to judge who is a valid Christian or not, as I haven't been a practicing Catholic since high school, but I find the Witnesses and Mormons very similar in their extreme divergence from standard Christian theology, and I can understand why other Christians would not want to consider them part of Christianity.
Anyway, your principles aren't hypocritical, so I'm not going to call you out on anything. Hopefully, given the current edginess on the board, there aren't any Mormons here to start a flame war.
Anyway, your principles aren't hypocritical, so I'm not going to call you out on anything. Hopefully, given the current edginess on the board, there aren't any Mormons here to start a flame war.
I got two things to say. 1)Ian was fast on this one.
2)
you're thinking of Cornelius, ROTFLMAO
2)
Othniel said:
you're thinking of Cornelius, ROTFLMAO
in answering the original question....
not much affect on history. The JW take a very specific point about staying out of politics of all kinds, and pretty much ignore governments in general. Thus, their absence will have little affect on the general course of history...
not much affect on history. The JW take a very specific point about staying out of politics of all kinds, and pretty much ignore governments in general. Thus, their absence will have little affect on the general course of history...
Jus Pau Hib
Banned
A few points:
1) thread is flaimbait
2) it's p***ing people off.
3) be more specific and thaughtfur with the threads as Ian said.
1) thread is flaimbait
2) it's p***ing people off.
3) be more specific and thaughtfur with the threads as Ian said.
Leo Caesius
Banned
A more interesting question would involve the Millerites. IIRC, the Millerites produced or otherwise influenced the Seventh Day Adventists, the Christian Scientists, the LDS, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Jonestown cult, the Branch Davidians, and numerous other sects.