No Mers El Kebir on July 3 1940

[Hecatee]

Due to the fear that the powerful french fleet went over to the Germans after the french capitulation the British lauched an operation to take control of every french ship in a british port and destroy the rest of the fleet. The main action of this program was carried on july the 3rd when an important british force under admiral Sommerville attacked the main french fleet near Oran ( Algeria ). During this action some 1300 french sailor died, one battleship was sunk, another one damaged as was a battlecruiser ( sometimes classified as a fast battleship ). A destroyer was also lost during this action, the british loosing only 6 planes and two men to the surprised anchored fleet defense. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Mers-el-Kébir )

So what happens if the operation does not take place or if the french had accepted the terms of the british ultimatum ? Would the fleet join the allies ( thus giving them two very modern battlecruisers and two old battleships accelerate operations in the Mediterranean as well as maybe influencing the officers commanding the modern Richelieu battleship in Dakar ) ? Or would the fleet get disarmed ?

In any case it would probably have made the 1942 Toulon sabording much less important and have given the post-war France a much more powerful navy for her operations in Indochina and later Algeria.

What do you think ?

 

[merlin]

There are several POD's with this:

a) The ultimatum isn't given i.e. no RN naval action is taken at all.

Downside -
In OTL the US were impressed by Britain's determination to do whatever was necessary - even against a former ally.
Also, it was a shock to the Germans at the time.
There was always the danger that the Axis could take control of the French Fleet at some time.

Upside
Better relations with the French .....

b) The French Admiral in charge at Oran take the 'De Gaulle' option and orders the Fleet to join the Free French.

Downside
For mainland France - instant retribution from the Germans.
Possible mutiny from some sections who want to stay loyal to the French Government!

Upside
More firepower for the Allies (before the US comes in), e.g. when Bismark sorties into the Atlantic.
Possible, that the action spreads to other parts of the French military in French-North Africa!

c) The French (North African) Fleet sails for a neutral (US) port to be interned or else a French port in the Carribean.

Downside
Basically - similar to option (b).

Upside
If in US port ships are modernised - and at least initially used in the Pacific with their French crews, but after Torch available elsewhere.

Anybody any other thoughts!?

 

[Markus]

Also, it was a shock to the Germans at the time.
There was always the danger that the Axis could take control of the French Fleet at some time.

No shock, the Germans celebrated. German propaganda had a field day. The French already felt the Brits deserted them and now this stab-in-the-back? Things could not have been better from the German perspective.
And of course there is no way Germany could get its hands on the ships.

The REAL question is: Why the hell, weren´t the Brits be blown out of the water? The parked some capital ships in daylight within artillery range of an major naval base and were not send straight to the kingdom come by french dive and torpedo bombers?
For some strange reason they must have had no such planes there. This or the French Admiral was the most stupid jackass ever to be put in charge of a fleet.

 

[Hecatee]

Well Vichy France was not at war with Britain, their ally of only some weeks before, and had most of their naval planes destroyed or captured in France herself, forces in Algeria were very few. Also the french did not have that many dive bombers or torpedo bombers to begin with... The fleet of Mers el Kebir was a pure surface force.

 

[Markus]

Indeed? They had a very good floatplane torpedo bomber/recon plane in production since the early 30´s. Not brand new any more, but given how hard the FFA´s fighters sucked and how good the Curtiss Hawks were, even not up to date aircraft would have been sufficient.
Leaving a major naval base that poorly defended is amazing to say the least.

 

[Hecatee]

Mers El Kebir was not truly a naval base, it was simply a large anchorage as is shown by this map :

Thus defense was light. And since the british carrier planes began by mining the mouth of the port and then came back to torpedo everything while the british ships shelled the area... It was a massacre.

About the airforce beside the fact the french had not many planes left in july 1940 when this attack took place we must not forget that at that time Vichy was not allowed an airforce by Hitler and it is Mars el Kebir which changed the german view on the subject...

 

[merlin]

No shock, the Germans celebrated. German propaganda had a field day.

Yes maybe, but it was still a shock - in the sense that the German leadership were expecting 'official' peace proposals to back up the semi-official enquiries that had arrived via Sweden & Italy. Hitler had made speeches with the expectation that the British would see 'sense' and acknowledge his legitamcy as leader of Europe.
And what's the answer - not just the rebuff on the BBC, but also the RN showing that the British are still in the 'ring' fighting.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Markus, yes. If Admiral Gensoul had only bothered to transmit the full British proposal to the Petain government, instead of only the harshest terms, it is quite possible the whole affair might have been averted.