WI from June 1898, the US, after defeating the Spaniards in Cuba and the Philippines, had decided not to annex and colonise the Philippines, and instead granted the Filipinos under Aguinaldo self-determination ? How would the US have developed without having to face a Philippine insurrection ?
No Philippine insurrection ?
- Thread starter Melvin Loh
- Start date
David S Poepoe
Banned
On the whole I would wonder how long the Philippines would last as an independent nation. Directly regarding the Philippine Insurrection I can not think, off hand, of any impact that this has had on the US in general.
For starters, what about the impact of no opportunity for such future premier American military figures as Pershing and Funston to get combat experience against the Philippine nationalists ? What about the lack of anti-American feeling on the part of the local ppl ?
David S Poepoe
Banned
Melvin Loh said:
I knew Pershing had served in Cuba, but not in the Insurrection. Funston is considered a 'premier military figure'? Funston's claim in fame is primarily the dynamiting of earthquake striken San Francisco in 1906. Tho if he hadn't died suddenly Funston may have been placed in charge of the American Expeditionary Force in the Great War.
Grey Wolf
Donor
Melvin Loh said:
One aspect to consider is Sulu and whether they would have accepted Aguinaldo's leadership or instigated what would likely lead into a full-blown Filipino civil war, with all the potential for US intervention that that may bring
Also, Leonard Wood more or less made his name in crushing Sulu - without this, would he emerge as a political figure ? Was his failed political career important enough to worry about its absence anyway ?
It may also do things to the political career of Taft, the eventual US governor, and perhaps without this he does not emerge as TR's chosen successor ? THAT especially would change things
Grey Wolf
If the US didn't colonize the Philippines, would the Japanese have made a grab for it?
Annexing the Philippines had a very big effect on the US. It marked the introduction of European Darwinian racism into American culture. Support for black organizations that had existed in the North drained away and political representation of blacks disappeared. The number of blacks in both houses of congress had stabilized (at a low number, of course) after the end of reconstruction, but after 1899 the last few were given the boot in quick succession.
Also, IIRC, one of the top issues in the election of 1900 was imperialism. The democrats were still waving William Jennings Bryan around for all they were worth. Without that, the democrats might dump Bryan and go for a more typical politician (which might just work) or they might do just the opposite, and campaign on a more socialist platform (which almost certainly would not). There was a big coal strike right before the election, I seem to remember - that's probably their only hope. Later elections will, of course, be even more divergent.
I don't think this is as unlikely as it sounds at first glance. Just look at Cuba and Panama: Sure they were technically independent, but the US owned all the parts of their countries that it wanted and interfered in their affairs as often as it saw fit. It's a bit tougher, since they are farther away, but this way you can let Carnegie pick up the tab (Andrew Carnegie offered $20 million to purchase Filipino independence).
Also, IIRC, one of the top issues in the election of 1900 was imperialism. The democrats were still waving William Jennings Bryan around for all they were worth. Without that, the democrats might dump Bryan and go for a more typical politician (which might just work) or they might do just the opposite, and campaign on a more socialist platform (which almost certainly would not). There was a big coal strike right before the election, I seem to remember - that's probably their only hope. Later elections will, of course, be even more divergent.
I don't think this is as unlikely as it sounds at first glance. Just look at Cuba and Panama: Sure they were technically independent, but the US owned all the parts of their countries that it wanted and interfered in their affairs as often as it saw fit. It's a bit tougher, since they are farther away, but this way you can let Carnegie pick up the tab (Andrew Carnegie offered $20 million to purchase Filipino independence).
David S Poepoe
Banned
DuQuense said:
The American Legion website mentions that it was founded in 1919 by veterans of the American Expeditionary Force. But you are right about the VFW and its connections with veterans from the Cuban and Philippines Wars.
Matt Quinn:
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h981.html
Eighth paragraph down. The idea was that the islanders would be able to purchase their independence with the money. The specific number was chosen because that's how much the US paid Spain for them, IIRC.
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h981.html
Eighth paragraph down. The idea was that the islanders would be able to purchase their independence with the money. The specific number was chosen because that's how much the US paid Spain for them, IIRC.
hmm.. well, the Phillipine resistance did have one interesting footnote in firearms evolution. The ever popular Colt .45 was developed for this war, specifically to shoot down machete wielding fanatics on one island who wouldn't be stopped by ordinary pistols. The Colt was designed with a big heavy slug for knockdown power. Without the US/Phillipino conflict, the gun may have never been developed, or at least not until years later...
What do you think happened in OTL?
We got tired of chasing the Filipinos around, hired the rebels to serve as the Filipino constabulry and appointed Aguinaldo governor, and declared victory. Well, we waited several years before we appointed Aguinaldo governor.
The Filipino war was over very quickly in the north. It was fighting the Islamic Filipinos in the south that took so long. We were stealing the Islamic Filipinos's land in the south to give to the northern Filipinos, is why the war lasted so long. I'm not clear why we were doing that.
Any Islamic Filipinos on this board to discuss this? That war is still going on. It started about the same time as the Israeli and Palestinian war, too. I'm not clear on why we did that, either.
We got tired of chasing the Filipinos around, hired the rebels to serve as the Filipino constabulry and appointed Aguinaldo governor, and declared victory. Well, we waited several years before we appointed Aguinaldo governor.
The Filipino war was over very quickly in the north. It was fighting the Islamic Filipinos in the south that took so long. We were stealing the Islamic Filipinos's land in the south to give to the northern Filipinos, is why the war lasted so long. I'm not clear why we were doing that.
Any Islamic Filipinos on this board to discuss this? That war is still going on. It started about the same time as the Israeli and Palestinian war, too. I'm not clear on why we did that, either.
Grey Wolf
Donor
wkwillis said:
The abolition of slavery in the South by the American administration was a large part of the reason. This removed a large plank of the local economy, and the populace returned to activities such as piracy and raiding to make a living. This being thick jungle territory, and its inhabitants by and large being tribal living in villages with local chiefs, it was very hard for the US to subdue - they couldn't just go after a major settlement or one or two pre-eminent leaders as any of the chiefs could be a threat on a local level. Thus, the US reponse was to basically hunt down the bands that were causing trouble, and and aim to annihilate them. The conflict got very vicious as smaller US units were especially vulnerable to ambush in the terrain, and against a foe that could move about it much more easily - as well as suddenly emerge without warning. Leonard Wood was responsible for one US counter-attack (after losses in an ambush) where he simply massacred the whole population of one settlement - think Annakin Skywalker in 'Attack of the Clones'. The more severe the treatment of the natives in these reprisals the easier it was for tribal leaders to gain a following, and in the end it required a major US expeditionary force and the systematic destruction of the villages to pacify the countryside.
Grey Wolf