Nuclear detonation in US city -secondary effects

I have been wondering about what would happen if a nuclear explosion took place in a US city. Not in terms of the immediate death toll, counterstrikes, war and invasion etc, but the knock-on effects.

Cleaning out nuclear fallout would instantly become a growth business. How would the health care system cope with the number of injured many of them uninsured? Long term effects such as cancers? How does supplies, food and shelter get to the location? What happens to the stock markets, and housing prices in the fallout areas downwind? How far downwind?

At what point does the emergency disaster handling systems break down? How many people are going to choke up the highways in to looks for family?

Etc, etc. There must be a lot of things I have not thought about. I was going to start out by assuming that it was New York suffering a ground explosion equivalent to a W87 warhead. But how will effects change if it is cities such as Chicago, Seattle, Phoenix, or San Fransisco?

Note that for the purposes of this thread, I would like to try to keep it independent of the source of the explosion. Accident, terrorism, idiocy, smuggled device from rouge nation -beyond this thread.

Just...what would the economic consequences of the detonation and its aftereffects be?
 

pnyckqx

Banned
I have been wondering about what would happen if a nuclear explosion took place in a US city. Not in terms of the immediate death toll, counterstrikes, war and invasion etc, but the knock-on effects.

Cleaning out nuclear fallout would instantly become a growth business. How would the health care system cope with the number of injured many of them uninsured? Long term effects such as cancers? How does supplies, food and shelter get to the location? What happens to the stock markets, and housing prices in the fallout areas downwind? How far downwind?

At what point does the emergency disaster handling systems break down? How many people are going to choke up the highways in to looks for family?

Etc, etc. There must be a lot of things I have not thought about. I was going to start out by assuming that it was New York suffering a ground explosion equivalent to a W87 warhead. But how will effects change if it is cities such as Chicago, Seattle, Phoenix, or San Fransisco?

Note that for the purposes of this thread, I would like to try to keep it independent of the source of the explosion. Accident, terrorism, idiocy, smuggled device from rouge nation -beyond this thread.

Just...what would the economic consequences of the detonation and its aftereffects be?
Jericho x 100
 
Stock market nearly crashes. Everything recovers in a few years.

I'm no expert, but I would think if New York was Nuked it would take a huge amount of time to recover. Millions would die, removing them from the GDP and taking out a huge market for consumer goods. I might be wrong but, I think it would be worse then any other disaster to hit the US.

PS the Stock market doesn't just crash, it's turned into rubble. Literally:)
 
Not to mention the US Army moves in and shoots looters and then Kanye says something along the lines of, "Barack Obama doesn't care about black people."
 

Cook

Banned
Stock market nearly crashes. Everything recovers in a few years.

In a few Years?

You’d have Trillions wiped off the board in a day, permanently.


The value of inner city real estate would be affected since all of a sudden people would be very aware that inner city investments were prime targets; it’d be like trying to sell property in New Orleans following Katrina and with no improved flood planning. And that would continue for at least a decade, if not longer.

The American people would awake to the knowledge that their armed forces, police and FBI had all failed once to prevent an atomic terror attack, they could fail again.
 
Re-urbanisation would be dead for a decade or two and White Flight would quadruple. As Cook has said one of the longest term effects would be that people would know that it could happen again and change their behaviour accordingly. All efforts to impose growth boundaries and encourage higher density living would stop. This would permanently change the shape of American cities, making them even more spread out, incidentally this would thoroughly wreck attempts to reduce car usage.
 
Cancer is going to cause a major headache for the health care system in the long run. Everyone downwind is at risk of developing some form of cancer, and depending on where the nuke goes off that could mean A LOT of people. If it detonated in Chicago that puts Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York and most importantly southern Ontario all at risk and there are tens of millions of people who live there.

Imagine five million people all in the same general area all looking for the same medicines. Unless the pharmaceutical industry goes into overdrive I could see riots occurring over shortages. And a lot of murders/assaults/what have you. "What makes you so deserving of the medicine? I deserve that chemo drug!" And just think of how the increased demand will fuck with the prices of those drugs. Depending on how things develop this could see the introduction of UHC in the US as the government tries to keep order.
 
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Cancer is going to cause a major headache for the health care system in the long run. Everyone downwind is at risk of developing some form of cancer, and depending on where the nuke goes off that could mean A LOT of people. If it detonated in Chicago that puts Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York and most importantly southern Ontario all at risk and there are tens of millions of people who live there.

Imagine five million people all in the same general area all looking for the same medicines. Unless the pharmaceutical industry goes into overdrive I could see riots occurring over shortages. And a lot of murders/assaults/what have you. "What makes you so deserving of the medicine? I deserve that chemo drug!" And just think of how the increased demand will fuck with the prices of those drugs. Depending on how things develop this could see the introduction of UHC in the US as the government tries to keep order.
Plus, every horror that America has avoided suddenly gets drop-kicked right onto their doorstep. I mean the kinda shit like shadows being fucking seared into walls where your friend used to be. People beating each other for a can of baked beans.
 

TheCrow__

Banned
I reckomend you watch the Unthinkable with Sam Jackson and Michael Sheen. It is a bout the interogation of an American muslim who placed 3 nukes in 3 American city. It's a very good psychological thriller very enjoyable. Really has nothing to do with the thread but I thought it could help you out or something.:D
 
There are not enough burn beds in burn units in all the hospitals in the country to handle the patients (assuming they could be transported).
Urban and Suburban real estate prices drop like a rock
Farmland will jump in value
Growth businesses - portable geiger couters, Iodine pills (to counter thyroid impact from radiation)
The economy will be crushed.
Impact to fuel and food deliveries from fallout concerns especially if it occurs in the midwest / west where radiation / fallout will cover a wide area going east
If the event can be traced to a nation state (sponsoring terrorists) - they will glow and if the president does not act, you'll see impeachment articles drawn up
 
How would the health care system cope with the number of injured many of them uninsured?

And why should anyone care about the uninsured? The main point of being insured in the first place, is to be INSURED that you get health care when you need it, and not have to wait (as you are dying), as some idiot or poor person, who doesnt have any h.i. gets care before you do. Hell, if that was the case, then why bother being smart and working hard when you could just be dumb and/or of lesser means and get cared for first, in a crisis?

But I digress, people are animals in a crisis and will, in all likelihood, rush the hospitals demanding care. Why is it that people cant act rationally in a crisis?
 
And why should anyone care about the uninsured? The main point of being insured in the first place, is to be INSURED that you get health care when you need it, and not have to wait (as you are dying), as some idiot or poor person, who doesnt have any h.i. gets care before you do. Hell, if that was the case, then why bother being smart and working hard when you could just be dumb and/or of lesser means and get cared for first, in a crisis?

But I digress, people are animals in a crisis and will, in all likelihood, rush the hospitals demanding care. Why is it that people cant act rationally in a crisis?

been hitting the ayn rand hard lately, have we?
 
A W87 is a 300kt Warhead. Using the link above I put the Detonation point on Wall Street.
In doing so, the financial district and Manhattan Downtown Airport cease to exist.
Battery Park tunnel becomes a giant shotgun funnelling fall out into the city. Aside from Brooklyn heights, the vast majority of the city is untouched by the physical effects of the bomb, (aside from fallout, see below).
If it's a ground burst, (which in anything other than a major state sponsored attack, it probably would be), although there would be major over pressure damage, the built up nature of the area would reduce the vapourised area, potentially reduce the fireball area but massively increase the initial injuries from things like flying glass, and also massively increase the amount of fall out generated.
Power and running water fail across NYC almost instantly, and power outages across the statestart within an hour.
In the first 24 hours there would be utter mayhem. Power over large parts of the state would be out. The national guard would HAVE to be called out. NYPD and FDNY would be overwhelmed. Casualties among first responders would be around 95% over 5 years from physical and mental effects of what they have to deal with. Hospitals in the area would be utterly overwhelmed and I'd expect some rioting to take place in desperation to get help.
Mass panic with refugees trying to find any way possible to get off the island, followed by out of the city. This would clog the roads and prevent emergency services getting through significantly contributing to the casualty rates.
The USA would shut down for 24 hours minimum. Same as 9/11, air travel would halt immediately. Trains and busses would stop where they are stranding millions.

Explosion Day (ED) +1
National gaurd deployed to NYC to secure Hospitals and Aid stations. MASH units set up around processing casualties. Triage based on Military principals with obvious terminal cases deliberately given OD of pain killers.
As NG and regular units become available, food stores are secured and ration points set up. Central Park becomes tent city, along with football stadiums and baseball fields. Ice rinks become temp morgues.
First offers of foreign aid come in, British and Canadian Military units in Canada offer their medical units and are in place 36 hours after the explosion.
President declares NYC national disaster zone.
Emergency broadcasts advise all NY State residents to remain indoors for as long as possible.
Cell phone netwroks, long since collapsed under civillian traffic are shut down to all but a hot list of a list of about 20,000 essential users. Land Line networks are still down due excess load, especially from interstate calls inbound to NYC.
By the end of the day, first pictures of the blast area appear on CNN and are broadcast round the world.

ED +2
Emergency joint session of Congress held. President granted executive powers to deal with the NYC Situation.
First act is that Martial Law declared in NYC with orders that looters will be shot. First food supplies arrive in the city, mostly MREs to ration points. Work begins to issue photo ration cards to survivors. First forgeries detected within 12 hours. Warning issued that persons holding forged ration cards will be denied aid.
Fires on Wall street and surrounding mile or so still burning.
NEST recives first report of dead sea life due to radiation
Initial estimate of deaths placed at 100,000 based on working poulation of wall street, estimated total casualties could be 10 times this. Exclusion and containment zone set up around NYC, no one in, no one out. Few refugees are stopped and turned back. Trading worldwide drops 60% in the day following news of the explosion. Markets recover but still show a drop of 38% by days end.

ED +3
First food riot at Ration point in Brooklyn. Large numbers are turned away due to forged ration cards, (later investigation after the events showed that the cards were genuine). 84 people killed and 277 injured as Police backed by National Guard restore order.
Later riots centre on rumours that food is being withheld in black or hispanic districts, or that those distributing the food are selling the food on the black market.
Certain Mafia families take control of local districts and begin establishing law and order and the distribution of food in territory under their control. Federal government turn a blind eye in the short term.
Fall out cloud has mostly blown out to sea, however Atlantic nations recieve reports that much of the fish landed on the east coast has been contaminated with Radiation.
CDC and NEST teams begin examination of blast area.
USAF deploy Predator drones ove the blast area and surrounding area looking for survivors.
Power restored to the Majority of NY State, only NYC and Jersey are still blacked out.

ED +4
First funeral pyres lit for victoms of NYC blast. For the next month, the pyres will be constant and will inspire the later NYC Blast monument.
Small food riots break out all over NYC. First attempt at a mass breach of the NYC Containment zone occurs at Hoboken Bridge. Although hundreds escape, the local military commander issues orders forthe troops to open fire. Most refuse to do so, those that do are most killed by the escapees.
First Refugee caps in Canada are set up in Ottawa, Toronto, Montreal and Hamilton.
MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL suspend their games indefinately.
Fall out cloud reaches Pittsburg.
Fishing in the great lakes is banned. Commercial fishing in the US and Canadian Atlantic coasts is stopped. As the gulf stream continues, commercial fishing will end all across the atlantic for over a year costing an estimated $2.8tn.

ED +5
Emergency session of UN in Bern, Switzerland, expresses condolences and members vote to extend all aid neccessary to the United States. Only DPRK abstains from the vote. Notable that both Cuba and Iran vote in favour.
Approximately 300,000 refugees have crossed the Canadian border. International Red Cross attempt to trace relatives in the USA and resettle the refugees as quickly as possible.
RCAF & RAF offer to fly refugees from Canada to other points in the US to free up USAF transports bringing in aid to NYC. US Airlines offer to fly aid workiers into the US free of charge.
Deaths confirmed so far in the 60,000 region outside of Wall Street blast zone. Casualties within the blast zone still unknown but figure of 500,000 generally accepted.
Deaths in refugee camps begins a slow climb. Mix of Radiation sickness and other complication.

ED + 6
National day of mourning declared. Multi-demoninational services held across North America and places with strong American communities abroad. Similar service held at St Pauls cathedral in London.
Although nearly 15,000 refugees have been moved back to the US, a further roughly 28,000 have arrived and been registered.
Power restored to Jersey and Martial Law in Jersey relaxed.

ED + 1wk
Conspiracy theories abound as to who is behind the explosion with Al-Queda, Iran, dissident Russians and aliens being blamed.
Fires in the outer blast zone brought under control. Casualties from radiation sickness among firefighters is at 50%, among the untrained volunteers who lack equipment, the rate is nearer 80%. Most will be dead, or close to it by the end of ED + 2wk. ED + 10, first cases of cholera among refugees in Canada and outer NYC discovered. Casulaties among those infected at 95%. Within 3 days, almost 100 dead.
Initial NEST estimates suggest a 300-500kt weapon used in a ground burst. Fall out samples unable to determine source of the weapon.
Over 50,000 refugees are repatriated to the USA from Canada to hubs within the US before making their way to relatives houses.

ED + 2wk
Power restored to almost all of NYC. Martial Law relaxed in NYC and stopped in New Jersey. over 100,000 gallons of water and 1,000,000 tons of supplies needed daily to prevent starvation. Double this to restore health.
First suggestion that the USA should sell Alaska to Canada for $10tn.
President accepts over 1000 tons of aid donated unconditionally from Cuba, and a further 500 tons from Iran. Further aid is recieved from Cuba over the next few weeks resulting in a very pro-cuban sentiment in the US.
Work begins to clear rouble from streets. Refugees offered double rations to join workforce, most do. By end of ED + 3wk, most of NYC cleared.
Deaths in camps top 100,000 from a combination of radiation poisening, disease and crime.
NYSE formally closed for business. The remaining New York based markets announce that they will temporerily relocate to continue business before returning to NYC at an unspecified future date. Markets generally back to 80% of pre-explosion levels. Companies specialising in environmental clean up show exponential increase in value resulting in Google and Microsoft leaving the top 50 for the first time since they arrived on the market.

ED + 1 mth Refugee numbers in Canada down to 100,000 with the Hamilton and Ottawa camps closing. Estimated to have cost the Canadian authorities over US$200,000,000.
Federal gvt released $10bn in resettlement grants and loans to NYC residents settling elsewhere. Rural towns are a clear favourite.
10 miles Square of the New York Island blast zone is quarentined. It is estimated that survival time within the zone is between 24 and 96 hours without protection. Predator flights by the USAF are stopped as no further hope of survivors. NASA and NEST secure funding for 3 surplus USAF predator drones for scientific research.

ED + 2 mths
Cuban sanctions act is signed into law. The act revokes previous sanctions against Cuba in recognition of recent events and the aid given by Cuba. Although the congressmen and representitives from Florida vote against the act, there is no serious opposition.
Around 70,000 refugees remain in the Toronto camp, with the Montreal camp reducing to just 15,000 mostly terminal cases, inclusding those shipped from Toronto, Hamilton and Ottawa. Canada's government plans a monument to the suffering on the Monreal site with the camp to be maintained as a museum.

ED + 3mth
Initial tests on the fall out and samples retrieved from the explosion site by NEST confirm that the weapon was a US made W87 warhead. An enquiry is started to determin how it came to be in NYC. Head of US Nuclear forces resigns and offers to co-operate unconditionally with the enquiry.
British Prime minister visits the US and the New York blast site to pay his respects.
His visit is followed by a state visit by the Emporer of Japan and the Japanese Prime Minister, then over the following weeks, most world leaders arrive.

Not as much research or detail as I'd like but seems OK. Apart from maybe the Cuba bit. This does need a Dem in the whitehouse though. Withe the state of NYC, the Mayor is effectively bypassed and fades into history. No Guliani type run for him, (or her).
 
I raised a thread a few years ago dealing with a 15 megaton bomb on NYC.Do not know if it is still available on archive.I based this scenario on the MIKE bomb exploding in a Pacific bomb test.You'd get a LARGE crater in the center of Manhatten and a great amount of fallout.Forget about midtown manhatten and any bridges as well.If any old timers who remember this is it possible to provide the link to the original post?Dan of UK, good post.I have my bomb going off around 49th and fifth avenue.
 
We shouldn't overestimate the impact on utilities for a bomb less than one megaton in lower Manhattan. Affected areas would be isolated from the power grid and power (generated off the island) would be restored to unaffected areas within hours (days at worst). Also, the water system comes from a very deep relay station in the Bronx and the mains are more than 600 feet below ground level in lower Manhattan. At that depth, they might remain in service for unaffected areas.
 
HI Mark,
I estimated a couple of weeks due to the confusion that this would cause.
Going on your response, the actual work would be swift once the materiel was available. But I guess the amout of stuff that could be jerry-rigged or fixed using salvaged spares could speed this up a bit?
 
I still think it might be less trouble to just use an ordinary explosive bomb wrapped in a bit of nuclear waste or wotnot.

The radiation level wouldn't even have to be fatal. So long as it was enough to set the detectors rattling, there's be a panic exodus, and by the time it became clear that there was no real danger, a few thousand people would have been trampled to death in the rush. Probably much easier to do than a real nuke.
 
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