From what I read it is the Frankish influence that separated OccitanoRomance and GalloItalic, how do we prevent this from happening?
Occitan, Catalan and GalloItalic remain the same language
- Thread starter kasumigenx
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I'd contest if this is really the case, for one Catalan is very close to Occitan so I don't think you need anything more than political unity to have them be considered the same language, on the topic of Gallo-Italic I heard that Occitan influence itself in the middle ages made the 2 converge.
Certain terms like with - amb/ab/dab and Oc are their difference, Catalan is more closer due to their use of Si.
That was their International language prior to French replacing it, the two languages are already close even prior.
Otto Kretschmer
Banned
Yes, having some political entity control both southern France and northern Italy since Dark Ages is the easiest option.
Catalan/Valencian/Aragonese and Occitan are close because they originated from Occitan brought to Iberia by settlers from southern France after that area was recaptured by the Franks. They did not originate in Iberia
Catalan/Valencian/Aragonese and Occitan are close because they originated from Occitan brought to Iberia by settlers from southern France after that area was recaptured by the Franks. They did not originate in Iberia
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Gallo Italic and Rhaeto Romance seems to be what Occitan and French was supposed to be like without Frankish influence.
Otto Kretschmer
Banned
BTW how did Gallo Italic originate?
They are grouped together with Occitan and Langues d'Oil as Gallo Romance and they underwent strong Celtic influence as well
They are grouped together with Occitan and Langues d'Oil as Gallo Romance and they underwent strong Celtic influence as well
Yes.
A united Occitan-Catalan and GalloItalic has a similar coherence similar to Mandarin.
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Otto Kretschmer
Banned
Have some political entity control both Occitania and north Italy and with good probability you will end up with them being unified.
Disperse the Franks more widely (rather than thrm settling just in North France) and they will assimikate much more quickly and langues d oil would not exist
Disperse the Franks more widely (rather than thrm settling just in North France) and they will assimikate much more quickly and langues d oil would not exist
Then that means that Gallo Romance will be a united language ITTL.
Aragonese was influenced by Catalan but more similar to Castillan.
Otto Kretschmer
Banned
It is disputedly grouped in either Ibero or Gallo Romance. It probably originated from Occitan as well, just a Gallo Romance language with very strong Iberian influence
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It was Navarro-Aragonese from the beginning, related to Castillan.
Otto Kretschmer
Banned
The matter controversial. It's either an Occitano Romance dialect with a very strong Iberian influence or an Iberian dialect with a strong Gallo Romance influence.
There are mix dialects between Catalan and Aragonese that is why.The matter controversial. It's either an Occitano Romance dialect with a very strong Iberian influence or an Iberian dialect with a strong Gallo Romance influence.
Catalan/Valencian is one language on the Occitan group and Aragonese is a distinct language of the Iberian group, there are some very isolated dialects in Aragon that are a mix of both languages
Subbed, looking forward to read more on the topic.
I add my two cents about it: Northern Italian languages were part of a continuum with both Rhaeto Romance and Occitanian. They had also sigmatic plural until Middle Ages before the swath of Tuscanization due to the three great Italian poets', Dante, Boccaccio and Petrarca influence.
A literary Northern Italian standard was killed in the cradle by the Tuscanization, Dante also remarked about it in the "De vulgari eloquentia" of the differences in languages just crossing the Appennines...
Piedmontese used to be more occitanic oriented, whilst Lombard was closer to old Romansh (degermanized obviously) and modern Ladin... For the sake of the scenario, let's assume that Oil languages are not imposed after Albingensian crusade and France as we know it is not, with a distinct polity keeping Provence and Occitania: i see Piedmont being occitanized and the language border on the Sesia river with a strongly germanized Lombard (i guess that the HRE would enhance his own influence without the, must be removed in this scenario, Tuscan influence).
Moreover, a nice YouTube video about the Languages of Italy demonstrates the existence of a still working continuum between Emilian, Lombard, Piedmontese and Occitan (vivaro-aupenc variant) from east to west and of another one from Liguria through Lombardy and Romansh-Ladin areas
I add my two cents about it: Northern Italian languages were part of a continuum with both Rhaeto Romance and Occitanian. They had also sigmatic plural until Middle Ages before the swath of Tuscanization due to the three great Italian poets', Dante, Boccaccio and Petrarca influence.
A literary Northern Italian standard was killed in the cradle by the Tuscanization, Dante also remarked about it in the "De vulgari eloquentia" of the differences in languages just crossing the Appennines...
Piedmontese used to be more occitanic oriented, whilst Lombard was closer to old Romansh (degermanized obviously) and modern Ladin... For the sake of the scenario, let's assume that Oil languages are not imposed after Albingensian crusade and France as we know it is not, with a distinct polity keeping Provence and Occitania: i see Piedmont being occitanized and the language border on the Sesia river with a strongly germanized Lombard (i guess that the HRE would enhance his own influence without the, must be removed in this scenario, Tuscan influence).
Moreover, a nice YouTube video about the Languages of Italy demonstrates the existence of a still working continuum between Emilian, Lombard, Piedmontese and Occitan (vivaro-aupenc variant) from east to west and of another one from Liguria through Lombardy and Romansh-Ladin areas
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