One of the things that pops up in quite a few AHs is the invasion and conquest of the United States by a foreign superpower (generally a surviving Third Reich or an gigantic Soviet Union). However, many of these scenarios have problems in their logic (namely that the USA could nuke the aggressor nation into dust in a heartbeat). So, what I want to know is: is there any way that a United States in 1950 or later could be invaded without the invader being destroyed in the process, and how?
On Invading America
- Thread starter Adam Parsons
- Start date
I guess if we suffered some kind of economic collapse before really fixing up europe after WW2, so it was taken over by the SU who did repair the damage and added it's vast industry to theirs we could be in a position of forced isolation as communists conquered much of the world. Eventually a more advanced communist block could launch an invasion while threatening to utterly destroy us with their superior nuclear arsenal if we retaliate.
The only way I can see it happening after WW2 would be if the U.S. was already falling apart due to something else (be it disease, economic collapse, civil war, meteor, etc) and someone else swoops in when everyone's distracted.
That--or the invading force considers the soon to be destroyed cities as 'acceptable losses'
That--or the invading force considers the soon to be destroyed cities as 'acceptable losses'
I dimly recall seeing a book entitled "Vandenburg", about a world where the Soviets used a bioweapon (or something) to kill everyone in Washington D.C., nuked Western Europe, and took over America without much of a fight. It appeared that most of America was in the later stages of terminal ennui (this being the 1970's and all), so no one really wanted to fight.
I've been playing with a scenario about a weaker USA staying out of World War II, and gets invaded in the '80s. The USA goes incredibly isolationist following WWI; not a good place for immigrants. Come WWII, the USSR nukes Berlin in '45, Communism takes over Eurasia, and slowly creeps its way into North America by way of Mexico, and a breakaway socialist Quebec. The USA is invaded by the Southwest, through Florida, and by way of New England. A Russian blitz also smashes through British Columbia from Alaska. The combined Russian and Chinese fleets destroy the smaller US naval force. It sounds fairly plausible to me, even if it's a stretch.
You would have to have Mexico or Canada fall under the sway of some "evil" power so that the launch off for the invasion could from there. Of course if either does the US will invade them first.
Grey Wolf
Donor
My story that no one has ever seen has the USA defeated by German nukes, and forced to accept a more Confederal constitution. By the 1980s its beginning to fall apart as the more wealthy states, or those with Huey Long type characters in charge, exercise secession, initially as Ukraine did under the USSR as 'sovereignty' but as the crisis mounts as full independence
Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf
Arch-Angel said:
Yeah, that's pretty much how it happens. The nuke problem is taken care of by Soviet space-based laser systems. The USA doesn't attack first because, like I said, it's isolationist and weak. The Soviets grew incredibly powerful by pretty much extending their influence over the entire world.
Arch-Angel said:
But how likely would something like that happen? Maybe I can see Quebec separating--but Quebec turning communist? Nah. Fascist--maybe but there would have to be some major butterfly flapping for that to happen. And what about the rest of Canada--ROC (rest of Canada) will still have lots of ties with Great Britain. They might flirt with bringing in a NDP Prime Minister but even the NDP in it's heyday weren't communists. The only way I can see Canada deliberately picking a fight with the U.S. will be because of some truly major 'incident'.
Mexico I can probably see going commie (all those revolutions in South America are more successful or inspire more people than OTL) but like you said--any hints of 'dissent' and they'll be crushed (and there's a smaller border to defend/cross than the one with canada).
But aren't isolationist countries often the most paranoid? Wouldn't they go completely ape-shit if they got nuked first and decide to take out their enemies asap? You can't hit every target and there's bombers, subs, etc that would be missed in the first attack.
Thats what I mean. It wouldn't happen and if it did we would invade first.
Sure you can nuke a country but thats not invading it, its just wiping it off the face of the Earth.
Sure you can nuke a country but thats not invading it, its just wiping it off the face of the Earth.
David S Poepoe
Banned
tetsu-katana said:
Sounds implausible by any stretch. Even while isolationalist the US wasn't weak. It placed alot of faith in the capabilities of its Navy, rather than the Army, which is understandable. However, once the nuclear balloon goes up I'm fairly sure that it wouldn't remain isolationalist for long. With the Soviets dominating Europe it wouldn't remain isolationalist for long. You have to also remember that the nation would not be isolationalist from events happening in the Western Hemisphere it would uphold the Monroe Doctrine and any nation, even breakaway Quebec, would find itself with a limited range of governments to choose from - and communism wouldn't be permitted.
While the US may remain aloof from events in Europe it can't do the same in Asia. The US will keep its Armed Forces, most likely the Navy and what would develop into US Air Force, in fairly good shape and keep an eye out on any potential enemies (remember War Plan Orange, etc.?).
NapoleonXIV
Banned
Ernst Rohm never returns to Germany from Argentina in the 20's and Adolf Hitler is permanently exiled to that same nation. Hitler's message finds a receptive audience in the very large segment of German expatriates there. Naziism takes over in Argentina and begins to spread into other South American nations. While its racism finds some receptive ears in the US, it founds itself on the idea that the "pure" Spanish left in South and Latin America are the "Aryan" groups and increasingly begins to be at odds with America in an area she regards as her natural sphere of influence.
In the meantime Russia and Europe go to war, as England and France try to stop the Soviet takeover of Germany. America, seeing its problems in the rapidly expanding Nazis, refuses pleas for aid from both sides as a debilitating war drags on there from 1940 to 1955. Atomic weapons are never developed. In the US because the need is never seen, in South Am because the competent Jewish scientists are expelled and in Europe and Russia because they are both too debilitated by the war.
As this has happened Nazi Greater Comlombia, now comprising most of South America has grown fat on selling weapons to both Europe and Russia. America, isolationist and condemnatory of both sides in the war has lost markets in consumer goods apace with South Ams wartime gains.
In 1955 the European war ends with the establishment of the People's Democratic Republic of the United Kingdom and Stalin masses troops in Alaska for the final elimination of the gadfly that has rebuffed all his pleas for help. As Nazi tanks appear across the Rio Grande, America is ill prepared to rebuff this onslaught of the world's two most powerful empires. Can her good friends and staunch allies from Japan and China save the day?
In the meantime Russia and Europe go to war, as England and France try to stop the Soviet takeover of Germany. America, seeing its problems in the rapidly expanding Nazis, refuses pleas for aid from both sides as a debilitating war drags on there from 1940 to 1955. Atomic weapons are never developed. In the US because the need is never seen, in South Am because the competent Jewish scientists are expelled and in Europe and Russia because they are both too debilitated by the war.
As this has happened Nazi Greater Comlombia, now comprising most of South America has grown fat on selling weapons to both Europe and Russia. America, isolationist and condemnatory of both sides in the war has lost markets in consumer goods apace with South Ams wartime gains.
In 1955 the European war ends with the establishment of the People's Democratic Republic of the United Kingdom and Stalin masses troops in Alaska for the final elimination of the gadfly that has rebuffed all his pleas for help. As Nazi tanks appear across the Rio Grande, America is ill prepared to rebuff this onslaught of the world's two most powerful empires. Can her good friends and staunch allies from Japan and China save the day?
David S Poepoe
Banned
NapoleonXIV said:
The People's Democratic Republic of the United Kingdom?! Hmm. I think they would choose a less oxymoronic name.
A coup in the USA, causes unstability, and *VERY CONVIENTLY* a forign power somes into topple the us
I can't believe I didn't think of this before. Well, this would never result in the conquest of the USA, but it is technically an invasion.
Germany, in 1917, promised Mexico the return of the American Southwest if it helped Germany engage and defeat the USA in war. What if the English hadn't intercepted the Zimmerman telegram that revealed this information, and a German/Mexican offensive plunges into Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California and catches the USA off-guard?
Germany, in 1917, promised Mexico the return of the American Southwest if it helped Germany engage and defeat the USA in war. What if the English hadn't intercepted the Zimmerman telegram that revealed this information, and a German/Mexican offensive plunges into Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California and catches the USA off-guard?
I thought I heard that Zimmerman was a false document produced by the British to get us in? I mean I know their was an agreement but I thought that the actual letter was a fake.
I think the Zimmerman telegram was real--according to The Great War: An Imperial History (a book written by my WWI/WWII professor), Zimmerman, in a massive (and stupid) display of arrogance, took credit for it.
One possibility is that either Germany and the UK or France and the UK deceide for whatever reason to invade the US at the end of the 19th Century. Neither the US Navy or Army had the resources to do withstand the initial invasion. Even after mobilisation it would still be very difficult to throw the invaders out.
Roland Wolf said:
Sorta what Germany did in the book 1901.
On invading the United States in the post-1950's world, I think that the main problems are the American navy, air force, and nuclear arsenal. The navy and air force can be dealt with: just set up several nasty insurrections in countries vital to US interests, and wait for the realignment of forces. As for the nukes, the best I can come up with is a surprise first-strike, but I don't know how much warning time the Americans would have, and if they could fire stuff off before they're hit. Of course, the opposing country could get really lucky and acquire the missile codes, but that would be near-ASBish in terms of luck.