Reasons Why the Muslim World Didn't Industrialize

This is for Ibn Warraq. A bit terse, but I'm a bit pressed for time.

- No rivers. There are rivers, but only the Tigris and Nile are useful for transport. Mid Eastern rivers are two slow to provide water power, which was the primary source of energy for early industry.

- No forests. Wood was the other source of energy for industry.

- No resources. Anatolia has some, but it's hard and expensive to get to.

- Low population density. You know that map of the Ottoman Empire at its height? The population of that entire thing is the same as France at the same time. No labor surplus.

- Fragile ecology of Mediterranean region. No reliable surplus and frequent disaster.

- Gradual dessication of the Med. Climate change since the dawn of Islam has progressively impoverished the Mid East.

- Land tenure. Lots of communal land, little private property. Discouraged capital accumulation. Also, state owns substrata, not land owners. This turned out to be a huge advantage for oil exploration, but didn't help much in the early industrial era.

- Mongols. aka Location, location, location. It's hard to be on top of things when a giant horde of horse barbarians sweeps down and burns down your entire civilization. Also inconvenient to have that immediately followed by the Black Death. Being located in the path of invasion from everywhere, feudalization tends to occur to to make local defense possible.

- Terrain - compare building a rail network to building one in the Ottoman Empire, which is entirely composed of serious mountainage and huge stretches of desert, not to mention the low population density again. Very bad for rail, which is incredibly expensive to build and gives you a lowe return for investment. The state had to subsidize rail enterprise, hard to do when keeping up an army large an modern enough to prevent the Russians from destroying you.

- (Later) Ottoman military weakness and lack of capital. Led to too much expenditure on military forces, and commercial treaties that set import duties to 3% initially. That made Ottoman industry totally helpless against Western products. It was eventually raised to 8%, which helped a bit, then 11%, which help a bit more. By WWI industrial development was occurring.

I might note that Ottoman economic growth in the 19th c was actually very high, but was based largely on internal markets and export of primary goods and resources. The Ottoman portion of the Balkans experienced much higher economic growth than the non-Ottoman parts (except Bosnia), which stagnated or declined. (Happens when you massacre all the Muslim taxpayers and pursue expensive xenophobic nationalist projects and policies as opposed to Ottoman laissez-faire in a larger market...)
 

Keenir

Banned
- No forests. Wood was the other source of energy for industry.

well, there was a lot of wood in Anatolia* and India, certainly; I don't know enough about the rest to comment.

* = it was one of the reasons given by Imber for the ease with which the Ottomans could churn out so many ships. (that and the metals and pitch coming from Albania and elsewhere in the Balkans)
 

Ibn Warraq

Banned
Thanks for the reply and a truelly excellent post.

However, I think our signals somehow got crossed. Yesterday you appeared to disagree with my statement that I thought Christianity had little to do with the scientific revolution or the enlightenment and that had Europeans been Muslims, Jews, or atheists those events still would have happened.

You argued that you thought Islamic law would prevent this from happening.

I don't think your post does anything to explain why Islamic theology did more to discourage the accumulation of wealth than Christianity.

If anything I think your post which clearly seems to adopt the Jared Diamond approach that geography and similar factors were more important than culture and strengthens my arguement that Christianity had little to do with the scientific revolution.
 
Not theology so much as the Islamic legal system which had such a major effect on land tenure - as land wasn't generally owned by individuals but rather by the state, land granted to an individual reverted to the state upon his death. This prevented development of a hereditary nobility, but also prevented capital accumulation.

Thanks for the reply and a truelly excellent post.

However, I think our signals somehow got crossed. Yesterday you appeared to disagree with my statement that I thought Christianity had little to do with the scientific revolution or the enlightenment and that had Europeans been Muslims, Jews, or atheists those events still would have happened.

You argued that you thought Islamic law would prevent this from happening.

I don't think your post does anything to explain why Islamic theology did more to discourage the accumulation of wealth than Christianity.

If anything I think your post which clearly seems to adopt the Jared Diamond approach that geography and similar factors were more important than culture and strengthens my arguement that Christianity had little to do with the scientific revolution.
 
well, there was a lot of wood in Anatolia* and India, certainly; I don't know enough about the rest to comment.

* = it was one of the reasons given by Imber for the ease with which the Ottomans could churn out so many ships. (that and the metals and pitch coming from Albania and elsewhere in the Balkans)

Anatolia was fairly barren of trees compared to Northern & Western Europe, and diminished fast. Building some ships is one thing, but fueling industrial development is another. Shipyards were placed close to trees, but that doesn't help you if you need to power a factory in Urfa.
 

corourke

Donor
Mongols. aka Location, location, location. It's hard to be on top of things when a giant horde of horse barbarians sweeps down and burns down your entire civilization. Also inconvenient to have that immediately followed by the Black Death. Being located in the path of invasion from everywhere, feudalization tends to occur to to make local defense possible.

I don't think this can be emphasized enough. I remember reading that the agricultural production in parts of Iran has never recovered to pre-mongol levels because of the destruction of their (underground?) irrigation canals.

I just did a little research on this trying to find the source and it seems that Timur at least actually built canals, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't destroyed in the initial invasion.
 

HueyLong

Banned
The Byzantine System tied a lot of people to the land, and prevented the landless laborers that became the light industry workers from developing. The Ottomans inherited much of that system.
 
I'd think the two key reasons are lack of surplus population and the food to feed them... Europe was able to industrialize because they simultaneously had a population increase, and a vast increase in food available after potatoes and beans from the New World became common across the pond...
 
The Black Death in itself was a major reason. Because agriculture in the Middle East is so much more labor-intensive, the loss of population was catastrophic. In Europe the labor shortage created economic stimulus, but in the Middle East it caused economic collapse, and whole regions withered and died.
 
I don't think this can be emphasized enough. I remember reading that the agricultural production in parts of Iran has never recovered to pre-mongol levels because of the destruction of their (underground?) irrigation canals.

I just did a little research on this trying to find the source and it seems that Timur at least actually built canals, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't destroyed in the initial invasion.

That might be in 'What If?' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_If?_(essays) - the one about the Mongol invasion, fairly obviously.

I assume this idea has appeared elsewhere, since as far as I remember without diging the book out from wherever it is, it just says that 'certain historians believe that the region has yet to fully recover' etc.
 

Riain

Banned
Did the Muslim world have the pre IR powertools of wind/water mills in abundance to drive smelter bellows, ore hammers, sawmills etc? If so then the problem is probably a lack of coal, iron and easy tranportation between these and to markets.
 
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