It would be interesting reading a TL with Eli Whitney not creating the cotton gin, but still going on to create another massive game changing invention. What would be the Northern version of the cotton gin?
Reconstruction: The Second American Revolution - The Sequel to Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
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agreed but I think Land Value taxes are probaly going to far more common and maybe good ol'Henery George will actually win political officeGlad to have you on boardI do think Georgeism is probably going to be a greater force ITTL, but maybe as part of a Populist coalition rather than its guiding light.
The first industrial revolution? You don't need a Northern "cotton gin" when the North itself is the "cotton gin".
Hello,
I would suspect that the next big thing in US industry , especially for the north, is...
A Brief History of the American Steel Industry | National Material Company - Steel Processing Facilities
Today, the American steel industry operates approximately 100 steel supply and steel production facilities and supports 1 million Americans.
www.nationalmaterial.com
So it’s highly unlikely Ord is in any position of power. IOTL when Union forces occupied Jeff Davis’ plantation they found letters Ord had wrote to Davis that were lamenting the fact the Union was “invading” the South and expressing some sympathy with them. Now idk if he still wrote them ITTL but if he did and they’re discovered , he’s gonna have some very uncomfortable questions to answer
And I think Siegel is a good call. A horrible general but his people LOVED him and I have never been able to figure out why lol
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IIRC the letters were written pre-war in the 1840s, when Davis was still a Mississippi Senator. The letters were discovered in August 1863, when a Union raiding party found Jefferson Davis’ paper and books in a Southern plantation. Sherman found the letters while perusing Davis’ papers and thought it would be a "real Boomerang letter" and sent the letters to Ord. If found, it would have been career-ending. To be perfectly honest, after doing a review of his career, I found out despite Grant’s and Sherman’s high assessment of Ord, Ord was a fairly mediocre general, only rising to army command because of his political connections and his friendship with Grant and Sherman. Ord frequently requested to be relieved from assignments he did not like and his battlefield performance was nothing impressive - I guess he displayed courage by riding along the front lines but in both occasions was heavily wounded, which potentially cost two Union victories.
Huh, since the latter is being implemented, would that mean that the army has more control over what goes on in the states? Of course, Grant ultimately answers to Lincoln, meaning that Lincoln has more control over Reconstruction directly. I think most Republicans would accept it out of inertia but it could lead to some arguments and more directly ties any nasty incidents/failings of Reconstruction directly to Lincoln.
You mean West Virginia separating itself from Virginia? It is already done; IIRC WV is called Kanawha now.
Tbh you may be correct in going off memory as well lol. Either way he’s far too conservative to be a military governor for my tastes. Hell let’s have two German radicals as military governors :BRING ME WILLICH!
Not necessarily. "West Virginia" could still be a nickname for Kanawha.
Or that guy who both made nitrogen fertilizers and gas weapons.
Certainly. Many Republican regimes in the South actually taxed land like no other Southern governments had ever done. One of the first things every "Redeemer" government did was abolishing these land taxes and replacing them with regressive poll taxes, patents, and excises.
I don't think Ord has even been mentioned once within the TL now that I think of it... And yeah, probably at this point it's settled that Siegel will occupy some post, most likely Texas.
As you perceptively note, Lincoln is in almost complete control of Reconstruction given that Grant is extremely loyal to him and the Congress never managed to pass a Reconstruction bill. This will have consequences because it means any failure would be hoisted upon Lincoln, and may make the moderates who accepted his leadership question if greater Congressional overseen is not needed after all.
Yes, exactly right. Though I haven't given it much attention.
Willich will appear soon!
Alright, I take it back, I can't let such a classic get butterflied!
Sure. From Foner's Reconstruction:
South Carolina implemented "heavy taxation of uncultivated land to weaken the system of “large land monopolies” and promote “the division and sale of unoccupied lands among the poorer classes.” In July, the state convention adopted essentially the same platform, including its “mild confiscation” provision regarding land." Then:
At Virginia’s Radical-dominated convention, delegates black and white expressed bitter resentment against the antebellum tax system and the inordinately high state and local poll taxes of Presidential Reconstruction. “The poor people have to bear all the burdens of taxation in this State….” declared Thomas Bayne, noting that freedmen paid poll taxes of $3 to $4, while “vacant lots worth thousands of dollars were taxed but fifty cents.” Hunnicutt pointed out that low land taxes encouraged planters and speculators to accumulate large uncultivated tracts, which a heavy land tax might force onto the market. “If we do not tax the land,” declared Frank Moss, a black delegate who described himself as “a working man,” “we might just as well not have come here to make a Constitution.” Some blacks proposed to make the tax structure progressive, through an extra levy on uncultivated land or, as one Louisiana delegate suggested, exempting farms of fewer than sixty acres from taxation altogether. The only such measure adopted, however, was one in Virginia, authorizing a special levy on annual incomes of over $600. Generally, the new constitutions rested state revenues on a general property tax, a principle already well-established in the North, but a striking departure in Southern fiscal policy. All property—land, personal possessions, stocks and bonds —would henceforth be taxed equally, drastically increasing the burdens of landowners from planter to small farmer, while benefiting propertyless freedmen as well as commercial interests, artisans, and professionals previously burdened by heavy license fees.
As you can see, Republicans did advocate for extensive land taxes as a way to make taxation more equal, and try and benefit small landowners. Like other measures, this never measured up to the most radical proposals, but it was better than anything the South had ever seen. But, then, Redemption came and...
But Southerners did not benefit equally from the reduction in taxes and expenditures. As land levies declined, licenses and poll taxes rose. Tenants received no benefit from the fall in taxation of landed property, and yeomen, although paying less, saw Reconstruction laws excluding a fixed amount of property from taxes replaced by exemptions only for specific items, such as machinery and implements utilized on a plantation. Laborers, tenants, and small farmers paid taxes on virtually everything they owned—tools, mules, even furniture—while many planters had thousands of dollars in property excluded. “The farmer’s hoe and plow, and the mechanic’s saw and plane,” a Georgia Republican newspaper lamented, “must be taxed to support the Government…. Show me the rich man who handles a hoe or pushes a plane.” Thus, the tax system became increasingly regressive, as those with the least property bore the heaviest proportional burden. Moreover, although homestead exemptions remained on the books, new laws allowed their voluntary waiver, and “shark storekeepers” often refused to advance supplies until they had been set aside, threatening tenants and small farmers with the loss of their personal and landed property in the event of a poor crop.
I think he did at an earlier chapter... ah, it was chapter 34 where he was defeated in a battle at Iuka. I always just assumed he was killed or that his career never shot up and he was left in some backwaters/garrison posting.
On that note, it does get Grant to be more politically involved in the management of the South in the sense that he isn't awkwardly trying to figure out how to defend Reconstruction without outright disobeying Johnson. It also sets him up to be Lincoln's successor as he's Lincoln's hand in Reconstruction. Of course, I'm sure that his critics and detractors have more ammunition to call him dictator.
Did Ord think well of Narive Americans - or at least better than many? If so, he'd be the perfect one to send off to deal with them.
As for Grant, all it takes is a few meetings with LIncoln or Stanton where they say, "You know, it looks like you're putting a bit too much trust in 'x', here's a better way to handle this." Or, for him to realize some friend is acting unscrupulous and - feeling awkward handling it himself since it's a friend - traveling up to PHiladelphia (or D.C. once it's complete) and seeking to talk privately with Lincoln about this. LIncoln has had his back through a lot of stuff; I'm sure he'd trust Lincoln with confidences like this.
So this makes me wonder something. OTL, Virginia had a brief moment where the Readjusters tried to come to prominence before ultimately folding into the Republican Party.
Given that the Democrats are in such disarray TTL to the point of likely being relegated to local politics, is it possible that the Readjusters will become a major political faction opposite of the GOP?
Given that the Democrats are in such disarray TTL to the point of likely being relegated to local politics, is it possible that the Readjusters will become a major political faction opposite of the GOP?
Maybe we get a split within the Republican Party? We get a firmly lead Radical Republican Party and a Moderate/Liberal break-off? Southerners latch on to this new party over the years, abandoning the Democrat Party (now a minor regional party). Just my thoughts.
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