Im sort of getting the implication that the Hapsburgs may survive in some capacity from this update.
That is indeed the implication, in part because a victorious Hohenzollern/Savoyard alliance would never, ever have the same kinds of priorities that Republican France or Woodrow “14 Points” Wilson had at Trianon and Saint-Germaine.

That being said, the bolded leaves a lot of wiggle room between the Habsburgs surviving at is and the Revolutions of 1918
Whenever we get European updates I'm remined of the complete lack of leadership from the French crown. I'm not sure what if anything Nappy IV would have been able to do to help prevent this slow-rolling disaster in Europe in the 1910s, but I'm positive he would have handled things a hell of a lot better than his feckless, cowardly son has so far.
I feel like analysis of Napoleon V's foreign policy would be somewhere along the lines of "as it turns out, just sending thoughts and prayers was not an effective geopolitical strategy." Seriously, even Napoleon III's foreign policy wasn't this bad, and that was basically just flailing about and seeing what stuck to the wall.
lol. I agree with both of you on the merits, though I will note that as of Feb/March 1917 the aftermath of the November Crisis remains an internal Habsburg matter. That being said, big things have small beginnings. And Nap 5 is about the last person you want around when they do.
He has a foreign policy? Is'nt he too busy being a cuckold!
Rest it's all Paleolouge meme...
lol well put
They might stay as monarchs of Austria or Hungary individually (as in not in a personal union), with the former probably inside the Kaiserreich if the previous updates that mentioned Heinrich’s sympathy for pan-germanism mean anything.
A good point, though to clarify, Heinrich’s pan-Germanism is less of the Grossdeutschland variety, and more of the “even though I am King of Prussia, the Reich cannot simply be a Prussian plaything if it shall endure” variety

Not Jews as such, but there were several ministers in the 1910s who had Jewish fathers.
Bethlen I believe was the first to even consider such a thing
So, this may sound a bit callous but who would benefit the most in AH from the delayed conflict?

By that assimilation polices in Hungary and elsewhere in the empire had a few more years of running which you could say may benefit the state in theory.

On the other hand a few more years means they have had more years to offend the various minorities without any rally around the flag moments.
Probably the Magyars to a small extent and, also probably, Czech industry
 
Bethlen I believe was the first to even consider such a thing
It happened before Bethlen - the first professing Jewish minister IOTL, Vázsonyi, served in the Esterházy cabinet of 1917, and at least three ministers with Jewish heritage served under Lukács and Tisza (and one, I think, even before). Prewar Hungary sometimes had a weird relationship with its Jews; on the one hand, there was a lot of antisemitism, but OTOH, there was fairly free entry to the higher levels of society. For instance, there were many Jewish members of parliament, and IIRC, the Honvéd had the highest percentage of Jewish commissioned officers of any European army at the time. Someone was going to bring a Jewish minister into government sooner or later.
 
Not Jews as such, but there were several ministers in the 1910s who had Jewish fathers.
So does that mean increased status (less oppression) of Jews in Hungary than OTL or desperation in finding people willing to serve.

I'm not sure there is anywhere iTTL that has a *significantly* differently view on Jews than iOTL. (Though Zionism has gone down a somewhat different path, I'm sure and will divert *far* more with Germany, Russia, Austro Hungary and the Ottomans ending up in different places from OTL from this time period's war.)
 
Im sort of getting the implication that the Hapsburgs may survive in some capacity from this update.
Habsburg Mexico says hi, but I get your meaning of "Habsburgs in Europe".
Grand Duke of Austria has a nice ring, but would Germany be so bold as to deprive Austria of her Imperial dignity?
 
I see even more Advanced Czechnology in the future.

One amusing possibility I can see going forward is Vienna still naming a plaza after Mexico if the Mexican Hapsburgs come to the rescue during the following crisis.
Didn't you know, Bohemian Engineering is the best in the world!

Also, I'm not sure how much clout Mexico would have in Europe to pull something like this off, but I do agree that the Mexican Habsburgs would at least make an attempt to help their Danubian cousins.
 
Effect IMO - France was very anti-Semitic in the late 1800s/early 1900s, even by European standards. Its just that Russia was at that time so extreme it sort of clouded out everything else.
Even if we agree it was an effect, it still stoked the fire and resulted in a flare-up, which would be absent here. It was also what led Herzl to conclude that the Jews would never be fully integrated in Europe, directly causing Zionism as we know it.
 
Habsburg Mexico says hi, but I get your meaning of "Habsburgs in Europe".
Grand Duke of Austria has a nice ring, but would Germany be so bold as to deprive Austria of her Imperial dignity?
Plenty of ways to bring Austria (and Bohemia for that matter) under Germany's wing without a full-on "Anschluss but with Kaisers" that gives them seats in the Reichstag.
I see even more Advanced Czechnology in the future.

One amusing possibility I can see going forward is Vienna still naming a plaza after Mexico if the Mexican Hapsburgs come to the rescue during the following crisis.
Heh.

One idea I've played with is that sans the collapse of the Central Powers and then the Iron Curtain, a lot of the industries we associate with Scandinavia ITTL (i.e. high knowledge economy) are more in Central Europe instead, with Bohemia a particular beneficiary thereof thanks to Skoda and Tatra being such long-running major forces in its economy.
Didn't you know, Bohemian Engineering is the best in the world!

Also, I'm not sure how much clout Mexico would have in Europe to pull something like this off, but I do agree that the Mexican Habsburgs would at least make an attempt to help their Danubian cousins.
At minimum, there's room for sympathetic diplomacy.
Even if we agree it was an effect, it still stoked the fire and resulted in a flare-up, which would be absent here. It was also what led Herzl to conclude that the Jews would never be fully integrated in Europe, directly causing Zionism as we know it.
Oh, certainly. Herzl didn’t invent Aliyah so there’d still be movement to the Holy Land. But nowhere near the scale of OTL
 
Hmm. Mexico is Austrian(/France/etc.) leaning and I *think* the US will be German/Italian leaning (and I have *no* idea on the Brazilians and Argentines, and do the Chileans or CSA really matter?)

I'm reasonably sure that the N&S American powers won't get involved, but I wonder how close they'll come as a spillover of the fight between the French Client Colombia and the German Client Venezuela. I think the author has indicated that Panama *may* end up as a separate country as a result of the French supporting government *running* away from the Germans/Venezuela.

Though I do wonder if anyone has managed to pull off a Colombia keeps Panama into the 21st century TL. (Can we have an entire government fall to revolution to a failed attempt to go through the Darien Gap? ) (I *think* the only TLs I've seen with a land connection through the Darien Gap are DoD and WMIT)
 
Plenty of ways to bring Austria (and Bohemia for that matter) under Germany's wing without a full-on "Anschluss but with Kaisers" that gives them seats in the Reichstag.
I think it's way more complex than this, and that it would entail an extremely heated debate inside Germany. This of course for Austria, cause Bohemia entails a completely different debate on whether they really need more slavs.

On one hand, you've got a group who would like to annex Austria very much, in fact for the exact reason you presented as a disadvantage. The Zentrum would be salivating at the thought of so many more Catholics eligible to vote. Then you'd have the faction that resents or wants to diminish Prussia's power, probably headed by the Liberals. Also worth mentioning this group was the architect of 48', so there would be significant sympathy even without the pragmatic perspective. Finally, the Kaiser also likely finds himself in this group, given his prioritizing of Germany over Prussia.

And going beyond parties at a national level, all the member states that aren't Prussia would heavily encourage it, and cracking down on it might bring problems down the line, cause it would be a blatant reminder of who holds all the power. Even inside Prussia there are groups that are not all that happy with Prussian dominance.

Now, the group that would oppose it with vehemence is mainly made up of Prussian conservatives, who want to keep the status quo by all means. Now, can they succeed in this? I don't think so, with so many factors arrayed against them, but it's not for certain.
 
Though I do wonder if anyone has managed to pull off a Colombia keeps Panama into the 21st century TL. (Can we have an entire government fall to revolution to a failed attempt to go through the Darien Gap? ) (I *think* the only TLs I've seen with a land connection through the Darien Gap are DoD and WMIT)
I, personally, have never seen the opposite: almost every pre-1903 TL, in my experience, keeps Panama in Colombia. Seeing it out for once would be kind of refreshing, honestly, although then again I am very biased there.
Grand Duke of Austria has a nice ring, but would Germany be so bold as to deprive Austria of her Imperial dignity?
Archduke of Austria. And if it came down to it, yes, they absolutely would (it is, after all, a dignity that is only 100 years old). But it's mostly a matter of whether the circumstances align for a German annexation of Austria/Bohemia/Moravia - which is not guaranteed to happen. And if the Austrian state manages to remain independent and keep the monarchy but is reduced to just Austria proper, there'd be the question of how much of a farce keeping the imperial title would be.
 
Yeah, I believe Maximilian would sent support for his nephew. Which would be funny if Mexico sends officers to Austria to bolster their army like they did when the Mexican empire was in its infancy
Max might sent troops out of personal bondage(since he's part of the family after all). But Reyes might angrily object to that considering he was against joining the war that killed thousands of his troops and left Mexico into near collapse. I don't think he be supporting sending thousands to fight and die in a continental war.
 
I think it's way more complex than this, and that it would entail an extremely heated debate inside Germany. This of course for Austria, cause Bohemia entails a completely different debate on whether they really need more slavs.

On one hand, you've got a group who would like to annex Austria very much, in fact for the exact reason you presented as a disadvantage. The Zentrum would be salivating at the thought of so many more Catholics eligible to vote. Then you'd have the faction that resents or wants to diminish Prussia's power, probably headed by the Liberals. Also worth mentioning this group was the architect of 48', so there would be significant sympathy even without the pragmatic perspective. Finally, the Kaiser also likely finds himself in this group, given his prioritizing of Germany over Prussia.

And going beyond parties at a national level, all the member states that aren't Prussia would heavily encourage it, and cracking down on it might bring problems down the line, cause it would be a blatant reminder of who holds all the power. Even inside Prussia there are groups that are not all that happy with Prussian dominance.

Now, the group that would oppose it with vehemence is mainly made up of Prussian conservatives, who want to keep the status quo by all means. Now, can they succeed in this? I don't think so, with so many factors arrayed against them, but it's not for certain.
Yeah, that's the tricky thing. Austria gets Anschlussed in a lot of CP Victory TLs for a reason, and not just because "it happened in OTL."

I could see an interesting situation where Social Democrats not wanting to add a vast bloc of future Zentrum voters (and Austria would be even more Zentrum than Bavaria, probably), Prussian conservatives not wanting to add a bunch of Catholics, and with Trieste in Italian hands a full absorption of Austria not being as strategically valuable to Germany anyways, and a lot more resistance to the idea of an Anschluss in Austria than IOTL what with Germany and Austria having been on opposite sides of the war.
I, personally, have never seen the opposite: almost every pre-1903 TL, in my experience, keeps Panama in Colombia. Seeing it out for once would be kind of refreshing, honestly, although then again I am very biased there.

Archduke of Austria. And if it came down to it, yes, they absolutely would (it is, after all, a dignity that is only 100 years old). But it's mostly a matter of whether the circumstances align for a German annexation of Austria/Bohemia/Moravia - which is not guaranteed to happen. And if the Austrian state manages to remain independent and keep the monarchy but is reduced to just Austria proper, there'd be the question of how much of a farce keeping the imperial title would be.
Having an Emperor of Austria, and just little old Austria (possibly even within smaller borders than OTL - spoiler, I guess...?) would admittedly be kind of hilarious.
Max might sent troops out of personal bondage(since he's part of the family after all). But Reyes might angrily object to that considering he was against joining the war that killed thousands of his troops and left Mexico into near collapse. I don't think he be supporting sending thousands to fight and die in a continental war.
Yeah, that's why I said officers. Though Reyes might come around to sending them if Maximilian is able to convince him to send the more troublesome soldiers and officers overseers like the Blue Division in ww2
Materiel from Mexico would probably be more valuable to Austria than military advisors, though how it gets through the Italians in the Med and Adriatic becomes the real question...
 
wikipedia.en - Great American War
The Great American War (GAW), also known in Argentina and Brazil as the Second Cisplatine War, was a major conflict in the Western Hemisphere from September 1913 until November 1916. It was fought between two major coalitions: the Axis of Liberty, or Axis Powers, and the Bloc Sud (Bloc of the South). Fighting took place in separate theaters in North, Central and South America, as well as naval engagements in the central Atlantic, south Pacific, and Caribbean Sea. One of the deadliest wars in history and the deadliest to ever occur in the Americas, it saw over three million soldiers killed and seven million wounded, and over two million civilian casualties, disproportionately in the Confederate States and Chile. Hundreds of thousands more died in its aftermath from various internal conflicts, and it was a factor in the 1918-19 North American influenza's lethality.

The first decade of the 20th century saw increasing tensions in the Americas. The United States, which had in the second half of the 19th century emerged as not only the continent's but the world's preeminent industrial power and was gradually starting to develop a military (especially its blue-water navy) and foreign policy doctrine to emerge as a hemispheric hegemon, was opposed diplomatically by a group of nations led primarily by the Confederate States, which had seceded in a bloody two-year conflict from the USA in 1862. With tensions of both an economic, military and ideological disposition (the Confederacy and Brazil kept chattel slavery and both Brazil and Mexico were conservative Catholic monarchies, while the United States and Argentina were seen as fonts of progressive liberal reformism), a breaking point arrived with the opening of the United States' Nicaragua Canal project in proximity to Mexico and the expiration of trade treaties between the USA and CSA allowing unfettered access to the Mississippi River. The Confederate States seized and sank an American trade vessel after killing several crew members after years of rising tensions and having walked out on a British-sponsored Congress to resolve the outstanding issues just a month before, and anticipating an American attack, the Confederacy elected to pursue a pre-emptive attack on Washington and Baltimore to deal a decapitating blow and end the disputes in their favor unilaterally, launching this offensive on September 9, 1913.

This strategy failed, as did Brazil's hope to knock out rival Argentina - an ally of the United States - in the first months of the war with a combined assault across the Parana and a naval victory in the River Plate. Subsequently, despite Mexico joining the CSA and Chile aligning with Brazil in the Andes, both fronts settled into long stalemates, with the United States turning the tide of the war in early 1914 with the defeat of the Confederates upon the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania and by bringing Peru and Bolivia into the war with Chile, promising them both irredenta they had lost in 1879's Saltpeter War. The North American front became quickly typified by brutal trench warfare that was augmented by massive artillery attacks and aerial bombings, but the United States gradually crept closer and closer to major Confederate population and industrial centers. The war in the Southern Cone was less dynamic, with Brazil repeatedly failing to break through Argentine lines on the right bank of the Parana at huge cost of men and materiel, while Chile and Argentina both saw little movement in the Andes.

Naval warfare and blockades proved decisive, with the United States dealing decapitating blows to Chile at Desventuradas (April 1914) and the Confederacy at Hilton Head (May 1915) and Florida Straits (August 1915), essentially ending their ability to receive foreign aid from Europe or harry American and Argentinean shipping further. Chile collapsed in early 1915 and exited the war via the harsh peace of the Treaty of Lima after seeing several ports seized by the Axis, leaving Argentina in position to focus exclusively on Brazil; while their attempted counter-offensive in mid-1915 failed, Brazil's soldiers mutinied across the front and the South American front concluded with the Peace of Asuncion in February 1916. Mexico, destabilized internally and seeing incursions across its north by the United States in tandem with several peasant rebellions, exited the war in October of 1915 once it was clear that the tide had been definitively turned after a putsch staged by the head of its Army, thus leaving the Confederacy to fight on alone for the last year of the war.

The Confederate States in 1916 saw an essential collapse of public order and government, with the state of Texas seceding in March of that year and major cities such as Richmond and Atlanta falling over the summer. A major offensive through Georgia in the early autumn broke the country's back entirely, in tandem with huge slave revolts and mass starvation as the harvest failed, and after an abortive putsch in the new capital of Charlotte plunged its government into chaos in the last days of the war, the Confederate States agreed to an armistice on November 11, 1916, still celebrated as Victory Day in the United States as one of the most important federal holidays.

While treaties such as Coronado (US-Mexico) or Asuncion (Argentina-Brazil) were fairly light, the Treaty of Mount Vernon imposed a harsh peace on the Confederacy, which was stripped of several key pieces of territory, had major impositions placed on its economic and military rights, and most prominently demanded the total abolition of slavery as a condition of peace. The end of the war formalized new states such as Sequoyah or Texas and cemented the United States as the hegemon of the hemisphere; however, the lopsided peace triggered massive instability across the Americas not only in the immediate postwar years but for decades to come, particularly in South America where both Argentina and Brazil took the view that they had fought to a draw, and USA-CSA relations would be defined by Confederate resentment towards their northern neighbor for most of the rest of the 20th century.

1702049983010.png


1702049942047.png



1702049868796.png
 
Top