The consequences of an errant shell

very minor detail on that map, but Iceland was an independent kingdom at this point of time, which 'just happened' to share a constitutional monarchy with Denmark, and having Denmark represent them in defensive and foreign affairs (and monetary union iirc).

It was closer to the relations between the British commonwealth with its colonies, than the relationship between England and Scotland with shared everything.

Without German attack on Denmark they'd currently be in the middle of debating a continuation of the Act of Union, and would probably continue more or less as previously, if prehaps taking over a few more responcebilities, instead of breaking the union following the occupation of Denmark (by Germany) and Iceland (By UK, later US). They'll have to December 31. 1943 to come to an argeement and the old act had an implicit argeement that they should start discussing it starting somewhere late 1940 so they had 3 years to hash out any new ideas
 
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Yes, that will require some work. Focus will now shift to the Far East, where the ground war is still "hot", the Russian Front having gone static now.

The UK, in particular, will be shifting units East to stepping up it's land commitment in Russia. On the naval front, the arrival of two more fleet carriers in late 1940 and the last two Lion Class ships in Jan/Feb 1941 will bolster their stocks.

With no more capital ships planned beyond the still under construction Repulse, it is likely that the emphasis will switch to escorts and destroyers, although a follow on carrier class will be built, likely a much larger I Class ship to compliment the 4 smaller Unicorn Class under construction.

Canadian Forces, when ready, will go wholly to Russia. Now that the Germans have been halted, both Russia and the UK's diplomatic focus will shift back to the uncommitted power, Italy. This will be made an easier sell if France involves itself with Spain, although Italy has declared itself "unready for war" before 1942.
 
very minor detail on that map, but Iceland was an independent kingdom at this point of time, which 'just happened' to share a constitutional monarchy with Denmark, and having Denmark represent them in defensive and foreign affairs (and monetary union iirc).

It was closer to the relations between the British commonwealth with its colonies, than the relationship between England and Scotland with shared everything.

Without German attack on Denmark they'd currently be in the middle of debating a continuation of the Act of Union, and would probably continue more or less as previously, if prehaps taking over a few more responcebilities, instead of breaking the union following the occupation of Denmark (by Germany) and Iceland (By UK, later US). They'll have to December 31. 1943 to come to an argeement and the old act had an implicit argeement that they should start discussing it starting somewhere late 1940 so they had 3 years to hash out any new ideas

Will make that correction next time I post a map. Thanks
 
well, i'd guess the canadian forces would be among the best suited (together with whatever Finland can scrape together) to play winterwar together with Russian General Winter, given that they might be used to some of the same things.
 

PsihoKekec

Banned
It would be better to have British forces hold the line and better prepared Russian forces launch offensive. While political cirumstances dictate that there is an attempt at liberating either Riga or Minsk, the poorly equipped Romainian and Hungarian troops are much better target, with the goal being either encirclment of the German force that separates them or the German force at Odessa.
 
15 December 1940, Burevestnik, Iturup, Kurile Islands

It was a rare fine day and it was no surprise to Georgii Levechenko that the air raid siren was wailing. Twenty one days after the the commencement of the Pacific War, what was possibly one of the most remote Russian outposts had expected an invasion any day. As yet, it had not come, however, air raids had seemingly come on every fine, clear day.

Iturup was the Southernmost of the Kurile Island chain under Russian control after the Treaty of Osborne in 1905. It was, however, only 19km from the Japanese held island of Kunashiri and less than 200 km from the Japanese mainland.

The island was garrisoned by only 600 men and had only four Su-2 attack aircraft and 14 I-15 biplane fighters. These had been worn down in a succession of four air raids to only 3 I-15 and a single Su-2 and the garrison commander Lt Colonel Kulikovsky had made entreaties to Port Arthur for evacuation, expressing his doubts about holding the island. So far there had been no definite reply.

It seemed that the Japanese thrusts into Manchuria and Mongolia and their landings in Korea, as well as the devastating attacks on both Port Arthur and Vladivostok had placed the islands well down the chain of priorities.

Major General Gavanavov, his direct superior on Sakhalin, had promised he would authorize relief within a week if Port Arthur had still not replied, on his own authority. Kulikovsky was relieved, but wondered if a week may be too long.
 
15 December 1940, Valetta Harbour, Malta

Captain Peter Marmanov watched the RN battleships steam into the harbour. Two large Hood Class ships, two large Black Prince Class cruisers, two small carriers, these packed with deck parked aircraft, plus three other cruisers and escorts.

They were on the way to the Pacific, as was his own small group of ships, consisting of 8 Krab Class coastal submarines and 8 Akula Class medium submarines, all centered on his own ship, the submarine depot ship Dvorak.

With the Japanese making steady progress on all fronts, any assistance would surely be welcome and his own boats eventual destination was Singapore to operate in conjunction with Commonwealth boats, adding to those IRN submarine forces at Petropavlosk in the North.
 
16 December 1940, Chepayevsk, Russian Empire

Lt General Vassily Spiridanov toured the facility. All stocks were still viable. 15,000 tons of chemical weapons. Yellow for mustard gas, purple for Lewisite, small stocks of Yperite, green for chlorine, black for chloropicrin and finally blue for the small amounts of Prussic Acid.

So far, unlike 1916-18, the Germans had not gone down that road, surprising considering their treatment of the native population of Russia. This had stayed STAVKA's hand and the weapons had so far remained stockpiled. Vassily remembered his own Great War experiences and hoped and prayed the status quo would remain.
 
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16 December 1940, Chepayevsk, Russian Empire

Lt General Vassily Spiridanov toured the facility. All stocks were still viable. 15,000 tons of chemical weapons. Yellow for mustard gas, purple for Lewisite, small stocks of Yperite, green for chlorine, black for chloropicrin and finally blue for the small amounts of Prussic Acid.

So far, unlike 1916-18, the Germans had not gone down that road, surprising considering their treatment of the native population of Russia. This had stayed STAVKA's hand and the weapons had so far remained stockpiled. Vassily remembered his own Great War experiences and hoped and prayed the status quo would remain.

I see the Russians at least do not appear to have invented or deployed nerve agents. I hope this is true of everyone else as well.

For that matter, are the British deparate enough to have their anthrax program as advanced as OTL and is Unit 731 operating for the Japanese?
 
I see the Russians at least do not appear to have invented or deployed nerve agents. I hope this is true of everyone else as well.

For that matter, are the British deparate enough to have their anthrax program as advanced as OTL and is Unit 731 operating for the Japanese?

The Russians have not developed nerve agents, no. After being one of the major recipients of chemical weapons attacks in WW1, they have large chemical stockpiles, however. They have developed little in the way of Bio weapons, however.

The UK's anthrax program is the same as OTL, being under development at Porton Down at present.

Unit 731 is far less advanced, building the facility only commenced in 1939, 4 years later than OTL. The Japanese have had a dedicated facility to test poison gas on the Habomai Islands since the 1920's, however.
 
16 December 1940 Kiel Canal, German Reich

The three ships ghosted down the Kiel Canal in the twilight, the bulk of the Bismark sandwiched between the two newest Admiral Hipper Class cruisers, the Seydlitz and the Prinz Eugen. These were the last of the ships of the planned Atlantic breakout force to receive their dazzle camouflage. The force would now exercise in the Baltic for 8-9 weeks before departing in mid to late February 1941, when the weather in the Denmark Strait was near it's worst, hopefully to slip by the Royal Navy and then create havoc in the Atlantic wilderness.

Led, by the Bismarck, it's other ships would be the smaller battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, the carrier Graf Zeppelin and 7 heavy cruisers, the Admiral Hipper Class ships Admiral Hipper, Hindenburg, Lutzow, Seydlitz and Prinz Eugen, plus the two Spanish acquisitions, Brandenburg and Wartenburg.

The last Hipper Class cruiser Derfflinger, would not be completed until February and would be too late for the operation, as would the Peter Strasser, not due until late 1941. As a reserve ship, the pocket battleship Blucher was also in the Baltic to guard against any mishaps befalling the ships earmarked for the operation.

At least, though captain Lindemann as the Bismarck moved slowly forward, it was a fairly homogenous group from a speed point of view, with all ships capable of 30 knots if required. After the disasters at Wilhelmshaven, the task forces represented almost all of Germany's surface naval strength, the Graf Spee not being involved.

Hopefully the appearance of such a strong forces would surprise the British and they could inflict some real damage on the Royal Navy, so long the German Navy's bugbear.
 
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?

16 December 1940 Kiel Canal, German Reich

The three ships ghosted down the Kiel Canal in the twilight, the bulk of the Bismark sandwiched between the two newest Admiral Hipper Class cruisers, the Seydlitz and the Prinz Eugen. These were the last of the ships of the planned Atlantic breakout force to receive their dazzle camouflage. The force would now exercise in the Baltic for 8-9 weeks before departing in mid to late February 1941, when the weather in the Denmark Strait was near it's worst, hopefully to slip by the Royal Navy and then create havoc in the Atlantic wilderness.

Led, by the Bismark, it's other ships would be the smaller battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, the carrier Graf Zeppelin and 7 heavy cruisers, the Admiral Hipper Class ships Admiral Hipper, Hindenburg, Lutzow, Seydlitz and Prinz Eugen, plus the two Spanish acquisitions, Brandenburg and Wartenburg.

The last Hipper Class cruiser Derfflinger, would not be completed until February and would be too late for the operation, as would the Peter Strasser, not due until late 1941. As a reserve ship, the pocket battleship Blucher was also in the Baltic to guard against any mishaps befalling the ships earmarked for the operation.

At least, though captain Lindemann as the Bismark moved slowly forward, it was a fairly homogenous group from a speed point of view, with all ships capable of 30 knots if required. After the disasters at Wilhelmshaven, the task forces represented almost all of Germany's surface naval strength, the Graf Spee not being involved.

Hopefully the appearance of such a strong forces would surprise the British and they could inflict some real damage on the Royal Navy, so long the German Navy's bugbear.
No. You spell it 'Bismarck', with a 'c', unless maybe we're in The Illiterate Fuhrer territory... :D
 
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17 December 1940, Phuket, Kingdom of Thailand

The old battleship's triple expansion machinery was humming sweetly. Originally the Japanese Satsuma, she had been the flagship of the Royal Thai Navy since, well before it was the Royal Thai Navy and the country was called Siam.

For Captain Luang Yuthasatkoson, who had studied in his early days with the Royal Navy, it was a difficult challenge. Whilst his country had allied itself with Japan, he himself was very much an anglophile and was not looking forward to a possible encounter with the British, who had been aggressively patrolling the Western coast of Malaya to prevent just such a landing as this.

The convoy was to proceed the 130 nautical miles to Sungai Petani, landing Colonel Noriyoshi Harada's 21st Regiment and hopefully cutting off steadily retreating British army forces. The regiment itself and their equipment, including 6 amphibious tanks, were embarked on four transports that would be escorted by his flagship Sri Ayuthia, the destroyer Phra Ruang, four Trad Class torpedo boats and the sloop Chow Phraya.

The convoy escort consisted of a large portion of the navy, which had mainly been concentrated on the West Coast in anticipation of Japan protecting to the East. The whole navy consisted of only 1 battleship, 2 gunboats, 4 small submarines, one destroyer, 10 torpedo boats, 3 sloops and two minelayers.
 
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"Russia is being seen increasingly oppositely by the US, but it takes a long time to dispel decades or longer of suspicion. Russia is much more Liberal than OTL, however, still less so than the UK, for instance, and the US had many concerns re British "Imperialism" there. They conveniently ignored the fact that they had become an imperialist power themselves in the 1890's."

By oppositely, I take it to mean more positively. British Imperialism - of course with plan Orange - remember reading somewhere that certain quarters in US Navy hated the Brits in lead up to WW1. Washington Naval Treaty of course SALT of its time.

Windsor's hit:
CalBear had the Nazis hit them on purpose if I remember right, this one was accidental.

3.9" = 100 mm Japanese guns:
Just on NavWeapons site - this would have been the way for them to go for AA all around looks like, bearing in mind the way the US went with the 3" AA gun from the kamikaze experience. Wonder if the Japanese would then make the leap to adapt this gun to ground service, even as an SP gun - like others did - - baby version of the "SU-130". Thinking that might happen here pretty quick. The T36 will be like Godzilla to them. But then again the feudal japanese army-navy rivalry.

Peril of being a Japanese admiral:
No criticism or argument, just thought it was observable and humorous in a morbid way.
Have read Neptune's Inferno on cruiser engagements in the Solomons - its paints a pretty clear picture of how ships and people get the heck beat out of them in surface actions - Hei for example - gutted by 5, 6, and 8". South Dakota got lucky in that campaign. Only imagine what accurate, heavier calibre fire exchanges would be like - OTL USN perspective more experience dishing it out than taking it. Was thinking about the one J. admiral who made it into the water in Curtain Call and was unhappy about it: he just didn't know how lucky he was did he? :)
Probably good here ITL to remember the title at all times.;)


Curtain Call, He119: - from the pic, looked like a more streamlined version of the Misquito.

Hoods = Admirals if I remember right?
Admirals: Seems like a pretty good design to make sure you hit hard first no matter your approach, for the sacrifice of more weight up front and some sea handling sacrifice I'd imagine from your earlier posts. more vulnerable to losing their fighting ability in anything drawn out. Not a nice thing to run away from either.

General comments:
Am guessing you are influenced in your writing by Robert Massie with some Barbara Tuchman mixed in as well.

Between the two TL's thanks for "johnboy's school of late 30's, early-war, might-have-been aircraft" have learned a lot.

Japanese feudal-decisive battle mindset, Shattered Sword and japanese sense of taking responsibility to fix problems:
Bearing in mind Sekigahara is still part of their history here, but Tushima is now a very different memory, be interesting to see how the last chapters of Shattered Sword would read - probably a different perspective this time out. In Tora Tora Tora Japanese scenes always seemed like watching a samurai movie, just different uniforms, not just because Kurasawa did them. Can't help but observe common features from Shattered Sword and how the Fukashima disaster was handled OTL: watching the US PBS special on the latter, felt like watching a version of the SS account of Akagi crew trying to fix the rudder as their ship burned. Some what SS covered about their capacity to corporately identify and fix problems seemed very much at work with the nuke disaster. This really seemed to get rammed home to me contrasting SS and watching the Rickover special again on PBS and his statement about responsibility:
“Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.”
On the surface of course it looks like the opposite with all the insert sword to stomach on failure. Maybe better to say: so fearful of responsibility and failing, its avoided - and very "brittle" and perfectionist about it all.


Finally, don't know if your familiar with, but Akira Iriye's Across the Pacific said something that's stuck with me, that the Japanese were good at copying Western things but not necessarily ideas and concepts - applied to the past, but not now of course.
 
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This will be a massacre if Cunningham notices the convoy and reacts in time.

That is the big question. Don't think an old semi dreadnaught can provide the protection needed.

Have been away for a few days from the site. One of my friends was banned so have been a bit down about that. Plus some RL happenings at my own work have left me less than happy with things ATM.
 
"Russia is being seen increasingly oppositely by the US, but it takes a long time to dispel decades or longer of suspicion. Russia is much more Liberal than OTL, however, still less so than the UK, for instance, and the US had many concerns re British "Imperialism" there. They conveniently ignored the fact that they had become an imperialist power themselves in the 1890's."

By oppositely, I take it to mean more positively. British Imperialism - of course with plan Orange - remember reading somewhere that certain quarters in US Navy hated the Brits in lead up to WW1. Washington Naval Treaty of course SALT of its time.

Yes, more positively for sure than OTL. It would not say hated the RN, but they were certainly viewed as the main competition for a navy that desired to grab Neptunes trident unchallenged for themselves.

Windsor's hit:
CalBear had the Nazis hit them on purpose if I remember right, this one was accidental.

Yes, it was accidental. That won't stop the moral outrage which will be milked by Churchill I would think


3.9" = 100 mm Japanese guns:
Just on NavWeapons site - this would have been the way for them to go for AA all around looks like, bearing in mind the way the US went with the 3" AA gun from the kamikaze experience. Wonder if the Japanese would then make the leap to adapt this gun to ground service, even as an SP gun - like others did - - baby version of the "SU-130". Thinking that might happen here pretty quick. The T36 will be like Godzilla to them. But then again the feudal japanese army-navy rivalry.

The bigger Russian tanks are not in the Far East at this stage. However, I think it fair to say that Japanese armour will have to be upgraded sooner than OTL. By some time in 1941, it is likely that a few of the more modern Russian tanks will go East. When that happens, a response will be likely

Peril of being a Japanese admiral:
No criticism or argument, just thought it was observable and humorous in a morbid way.
Have read Neptune's Inferno on cruiser engagements in the Solomons - its paints a pretty clear picture of how ships and people get the heck beat out of them in surface actions - Hei for example - gutted by 5, 6, and 8". South Dakota got lucky in that campaign. Only imagine what accurate, heavier calibre fire exchanges would be like - OTL USN perspective more experience dishing it out than taking it. Was thinking about the one J. admiral who made it into the water in Curtain Call and was unhappy about it: he just didn't know how lucky he was did he? :)
Probably good here ITL to remember the title at all times.;)

Night surface engagements are always likely to be bloody as they often lead to confusion and short range engagements-a bad combination for both ships and men.


Curtain Call, He119: - from the pic, looked like a more streamlined version of the Misquito.

Not dissimilar to the Mosquito, that's for sure, although not made from wood of course.

Hoods = Admirals if I remember right?
Admirals: Seems like a pretty good design to make sure you hit hard first no matter your approach, for the sacrifice of more weight up front and some sea handling sacrifice I'd imagine from your earlier posts. more vulnerable to losing their fighting ability in anything drawn out. Not a nice thing to run away from either.

The Admirals are very similar to an early version of the French Richleau. They are not marvelous sea boats, but very strong defensively. The Hoods are very similar to a G3 battlecruiser design with it's all or nothing protection scheme, except slightly smaller with a less powerful power plant and a more conventional turret layout(two 16inch forward, one to the rear).

General comments:
Am guessing you are influenced in your writing by Robert Massie with some Barbara Tuchman mixed in as well.

Robert Massie for sure. Have always been a naval buff even back to when I was ten 40 years ago and I started reading Commando comics.

Between the two TL's thanks for "johnboy's school of late 30's, early-war, might-have-been aircraft" have learned a lot.

Thanks for that. There are some interesting aircraft that failed to see service.

Japanese feudal-decisive battle mindset, Shattered Sword and japanese sense of taking responsibility to fix problems:
Bearing in mind Sekigahara is still part of their history here, but Tushima is now a very different memory, be interesting to see how the last chapters of Shattered Sword would read - probably a different perspective this time out. In Tora Tora Tora Japanese scenes always seemed like watching a samurai movie, just different uniforms, not just because Kurasawa did them. Can't help but observe common features from Shattered Sword and how the Fukashima disaster was handled OTL: watching the US PBS special on the latter, felt like watching a version of the SS account of Akagi crew trying to fix the rudder as their ship burned. Some what SS covered about their capacity to corporately identify and fix problems seemed very much at work with the nuke disaster. This really seemed to get rammed home to me contrasting SS and watching the Rickover special again on PBS and his statement about responsibility:
“Responsibility is a unique concept... You may share it with others, but your portion is not diminished. You may delegate it, but it is still with you... If responsibility is rightfully yours, no evasion, or ignorance or passing the blame can shift the burden to someone else. Unless you can point your finger at the man who is responsible when something goes wrong, then you have never had anyone really responsible.”
On the surface of course it looks like the opposite with all the insert sword to stomach on failure. Maybe better to say: so fearful of responsibility and failing, its avoided - and very "brittle" and perfectionist about it all.


Finally, don't know if your familiar with, but Akira Iriye's Across the Pacific said something that's stuck with me, that the Japanese were good at copying Western things but not necessarily ideas and concepts - applied to the past, but not now of course.

No, I have not read it. I will endevour to do so.

Thanks very much for the feedback and comments. Responses in red.
 
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