The Twelve Blessings of Catherine of Aragon and Arthur Tudor: Arthur Tudor and Catherine of Aragon Have Twelve Sons, , whom do they marry?

[The Gybson Boy]

This post has a similar premise to another post of mine from a few months ago

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In January 1502, shortly after the marriage of the Prince of Wales with Catherine of Aragon, King Henry VII fell ill from sweating, preventing the newly married couple from leaving for Ludlow Castle, after a month and a half of agony, King Henry VII passed away on March 13, 1502, at the age of 45 leaving his young son to ascend the throne as King Arthur I, the second and best-known monarch of the Tudor Dynasty, Arthur would reign for the next 54 years, dying at the age of 70 on 23 October 1556, being remembered as a wise king, Arthur and his wife Catherine of Aragon would have twelve sons who would live to adulthood, a record that not even Philippa of Hainut could dream of achieving.

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King Arthur I of England and Ireland (August 19, 1486 - October 23, 1556) and Catherine of Aragon (December 16, 1585 - January 31, 1551)
1.King Alfred I of England and Ireland (May 6, 1503) (Named after Alfred the Great, due to the fact that he was born on the historic date of the Battle of Edington, this was seen as a sign that Arthur named him in honor of the Legendary King of Wessex)
2.Henry, Duke of Somerset (May 6, 1503) (Named after Henry VII and Henry, Duke of York)
3.Edward, Duke of Richmond (March 21, 1505) (Named after King Edward IV, grandfather of Arthur)
4.Edmund, Duke of Lancaster (June 21, 1506) (Named after Edmund Tudor, paternal grandfather of Arthur and Edmund, Duke of Somerset the younger brother of Arthur)
5.Cardinal-John, Duke of Cambridge¹ (September 12, 1508) (Named after John of Gaunt, common relative of Catherine of Aragon and Arhut as well as Juan, Prince of Asturias)
6.Ferdinand, Duke of Bedford (July 30, 1510) (Named after Ferdinand II of Aragon, Father of Catherine of Aragon)
7.William, Duke of Kent (July 30, 1510) (Named after William, The Conqueror)
8.Francis, Duke of Sussex (October 4, 1512) (Named after Saint Francis of Assisi, saint of the day of his birth)
9.Christian, Duke of Northumberland (December 25, 1514) (Named Christian due to being born at Christmas)
10.Lionel, Duke of Cumberland (November 01,1516) (Named after Lionel of Artuepia, son of King Edward III)
11.Jasper, Duke of Wessex (November 01,1516) (Named after Jasper Tudor, paternal uncle of Arthur)
12.Alphonso, Duke of Nottingham (October 25, 1518) (Named after English version of Alfonso, name of several kings of Castile and Aragon)

[1] Although an English prince becoming a priest is unprecedented in England monarchy, Catherine of Aragon convinced Arthur to give him to the lord as thanks for his abundant offspring.

 

[The Gybson Boy]

Who would all these kids marry?

 

[Lalli]

That is really high numbers of children. And is that anyway very likely that all of 12 children are boys? At least it seems statistically very rare. And they all survive to adulthood? But anyway, things of course depends how foreign policy go but I guess that oldest boy marries someone Francis I's daughter (assuming that someone of them survives to adulthood). Henry may marry someone Habsburg princess.

 

[Lougaru]

Damn that is a lot of male children. Maybe it should be split with half of them being daughters. At least 8 to 9 princes with 3-4 princesses would do. That way Arthur can make some alliances with foreign kings. But to each his own. Arthur and Catherine with twelve boys, I dont know if they're blessed or cursed at that point.

I guess King Alfred I would marry his cousin Isabella of Portugal.

 

[Tupolev0247]

I guess King Alfred I would marry his cousin Isabella of Portugal.

It is very unlikely that Alfred will marry Isabella while Charles or Ferdinand are an option.

 

[BlueFlowwer]

It is very unlikely that Alfred will marry Isabella while Charles or Ferdinand are an option.

Infanta Beatriz is another option.

 

[CantyTiger]

Isn’t the Duchy of Lancaster held by the king? Shouldn’t Edmund hold a different title?

 

[Lalli]

Damn that is a lot of male children. Maybe it should be split with half of them being daughters. At least 8 to 9 princes with 3-4 princesses would do. That way Arthur can make some alliances with foreign kings. But to each his own. Arthur and Catherine with twelve boys, I dont know if they're blessed or cursed at that point.

Agree. I don't know which is statistically more unlikely, all of these 12 kids are boys or that they all reach adulthood. Perhaps indeed something like 6 - 8 boys and rest being girls and probably and unfortunately some of them hardly can reach adulthood.

I guess King Alfred I would marry his cousin Isabella of Portugal.

I think that there would be more important matches than Portuguese princess. French or Habsburg princess seems better match for oldest son and heir.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

12 sons, all twelve living to adulthood would be a rarity in this period. Not to mention what kind of effects the constant childrearing might have on Catherine's health. Assuming they do, however, I can only shudder for the expenses of the royal household and the possible impoverishment of the royal family to provide suitable lands and revenues for all these sons. Not to mention the birth of all these rival royal lines... it'd make the war of the roses look like a fairy tale if things went head up.

It's likely more than one might end up given to the priesthood, and you'd probably only be able to find foreign matches for the eldest sons (the heir and the spare I'd say, /maybe/ the third son at the minimum). The remainder of the boys will likely have to content themselves with domestic matches, likely with English heiresses, not only to provide them with suitable lands and incomes that the royal domain might not be able to provide, but to prevent it being excessively fractured.

Of course, some may not marry at all. They might just stay single, or take up with mistresses instead, as happened in the case of some of Manuel of Portugal's sons (he had a dearth of sons, too).

 

[The Gybson Boy]

That is really high numbers of children. And is that anyway very likely that all of 12 children are boys? At least it seems statistically very rare. And they all survive to adulthood? But anyway, things of course depends how foreign policy go but I guess that oldest boy marries someone Francis I's daughter (assuming that someone of them survives to adulthood). Henry may marry someone Habsburg princess.

Damn that is a lot of male children. Maybe it should be split with half of them being daughters. At least 8 to 9 princes with 3-4 princesses would do. That way Arthur can make some alliances with foreign kings. But to each his own. Arthur and Catherine with twelve boys, I dont know if they're blessed or cursed at that point.

Agree. I don't know which is statistically more unlikely, all of these 12 kids are boys or that they all reach adulthood. Perhaps indeed something like 6 - 8 boys and rest being girls and probably and unfortunately some of them hardly can reach adulthood.

12 sons, all twelve living to adulthood would be a rarity in this period.

Ferdinand I and Anna of Bohemia and Hungary had 15 children and all survived to adulthood.

About all of them being men, you just need luck, or a specific gene that can be changed at Arthur's birth, Louis XV had ten children and eight were girls.

Not to mention what kind of effects the constant childrearing might have on Catherine's health.

Mothers who had several pregnancies and survived are not a rarity, within Catherine's family, for example, Isabella of Castile survived seven pregnancies, Joanna six, Catherine of Austria nine, and even Anna of Bohemia died in her last pregnancy. she had still managed to give birth to 14 children before that

 

[The Gybson Boy]

I guess that oldest boy marries someone Francis I's daughter (assuming that someone of them survives to adulthood). Henry may marry someone Habsburg princess.

Francis I's eldest daughter would be 17 years younger than Prince Alfred

 

[The Gybson Boy]

Isn’t the Duchy of Lancaster held by the king? Shouldn’t Edmund hold a different title?

technically yes, but the Tudors saw themselves as successors to the Lancasters, if the Duchy of York can be distributed again, or not that of Lancaster?

 

[Stahlo]

Ferdinand I and Anna of Bohemia and Hungary had 15 children and all survived to adulthood.

About all of them being men, you just need luck, or a specific gene that can be changed at Arthur's birth, Louis XV had ten children and eight were girls.

Mothers who had several pregnancies and survived are not a rarity, within Catherine's family, for example, Isabella of Castile survived seven pregnancies, Joanna six, Catherine of Austria nine, and even Anna of Bohemia died in her last pregnancy. she had still managed to give birth to 14 children before that

And two of Catherine's sisters, Isabella and Maria, died after giving birth. It's possible she could have this many pregnancies and they could all be boys, but it just isn't very likely. That's just not how human biology works generally. Even with the Louis example that you gave, there was still a mix of genders.

 

[Lalli]

Francis I's eldest daughter would be 17 years younger than Prince Alfred

I completely forgot that. But perhaps there is some another French princess available. Or then someone Habsburg princess.

 

[The Gybson Boy]

I completely forgot that. But perhaps there is some another French princess available. Or then someone Habsburg princess.

Beatrice of Portugal or any of the daughters of Philip the Fair and Joan of Castile

 

[DrakeRlugia]

Ferdinand I and Anna of Bohemia and Hungary had 15 children and all survived to adulthood.

About all of them being men, you just need luck, or a specific gene that can be changed at Arthur's birth, Louis XV had ten children and eight were girls.

Mothers who had several pregnancies and survived are not a rarity, within Catherine's family, for example, Isabella of Castile survived seven pregnancies, Joanna six, Catherine of Austria nine, and even Anna of Bohemia died in her last pregnancy. she had still managed to give birth to 14 children before that

Yes, but for every mother in this period who does have quite a few children (I'll say more than six), there are countless examples of other women who don't survive such stressors. The fact of the matter is that pregnancy can be difficult experience, and lots of women tend to have issues from back to back pregnancies, from having issues with hair, teeth, and other physical issues that medicine of this period can't take care of. Most of these children would be born in her youth, ie her twenties, so she'd likely have a better chance of bouncing back.

I'm more interested in the effects on the royal household and the royal domains, as providing for all these sons will be a great strain.

 

[isabella]

This post has a similar premise to another post of mine from a few months ago

---

In January 1502, shortly after the marriage of the Prince of Wales with Catherine of Aragon, King Henry VII fell ill from sweating, preventing the newly married couple from leaving for Ludlow Castle, after a month and a half of agony, King Henry VII passed away on March 13, 1502, at the age of 45 leaving his young son to ascend the throne as King Arthur I, the second and best-known monarch of the Tudor Dynasty, Arthur would reign for the next 54 years, dying at the age of 70 on 23 October 1556, being remembered as a wise king, Arthur and his wife Catherine of Aragon would have twelve sons who would live to adulthood, a record that not even Philippa of Hainut could dream of achieving.

---

King Arthur I of England and Ireland (August 19, 1486 - October 23, 1556) and Catherine of Aragon (December 16, 1585 - January 31, 1551)
1.King Alfred I of England and Ireland (May 6, 1503) (Named after Alfred the Great, due to the fact that he was born on the historic date of the Battle of Edington, this was seen as a sign that Arthur named him in honor of the Legendary King of Wessex)
2.Henry, Duke of Somerset (May 6, 1503) (Named after Henry VII and Henry, Duke of York)
3.Edward, Duke of Richmond (March 21, 1505) (Named after King Edward IV, grandfather of Arthur)
4.Edmund, Duke of Lancaster (June 21, 1506) (Named after Edmund Tudor, paternal grandfather of Arthur and Edmund, Duke of Somerset the younger brother of Arthur)
5.Cardinal-John, Duke of Cambridge¹ (September 12, 1508) (Named after John of Gaunt, common relative of Catherine of Aragon and Arhut as well as Juan, Prince of Asturias)
6.Ferdinand, Duke of Bedford (July 30, 1510) (Named after Ferdinand II of Aragon, Father of Catherine of Aragon)
7.William, Duke of Kent (July 30, 1510) (Named after William, The Conqueror)
8.Francis, Duke of Sussex (October 4, 1512) (Named after Saint Francis of Assisi, saint of the day of his birth)
9.Christian, Duke of Northumberland (December 25, 1514) (Named Christian due to being born at Christmas)
10.Lionel, Duke of Cumberland (November 01,1516) (Named after Lionel of Artuepia, son of King Edward III)
11.Jasper, Duke of Wessex (November 01,1516) (Named after Jasper Tudor, paternal uncle of Arthur)
12.Alphonso, Duke of Nottingham (October 25, 1518) (Named after English version of Alfonso, name of several kings of Castile and Aragon)

[1] Although an English prince becoming a priest is unprecedented in England monarchy, Catherine of Aragon convinced Arthur to give him to the lord as thanks for his abundant offspring.

It is extremely unlikely who they would continue to having children after John or Ferdinand. Alfred would surely marry Eleanor of Austria

 

[The Gybson Boy]

Yes, but for every mother in this period who does have quite a few children (I'll say more than six), there are countless examples of other women who don't survive such stressors. The fact of the matter is that pregnancy can be difficult experience, and lots of women tend to have issues from back to back pregnancies, from having issues with hair, teeth, and other physical issues that medicine of this period can't take care of. Most of these children would be born in her youth, ie her twenties, so she'd likely have a better chance of bouncing back.

I'm more interested in the effects on the royal household and the royal domains, as providing for all these sons will be a great strain.

It is extremely unlikely who they would continue to having children after John or Ferdinand. Alfred would surely marry Eleanor of Austria

Okay, I understand that the chances of this happening are small, but we can focus on who each person marries and the consequences of these births rather than the possibilities of this happening.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

Okay, I understand that the chances of this happening are small, but we can focus on who each person marries and the consequences of these births rather than the possibilities of this happening.

I mean, I've already laid out the idea that the royal household and it's domains will likely have difficulty in providing all the sons with appropriate lands and wealth to support themselves. One thing Henry VII had going for him was he eventually only had one surviving son, which allowed the royal lands (which he had added too in any way possible post-1485) was able to pass unobstructed to a single heir. Same with Henry VIII, for the most part the Tudors were able to keep the royal lands relatively intact owing to a lack of heirs. In this situation, you are likely to see the royal domain fragmented slightly, even if they only give our the bare minimum that's required.

I don't have names, but it's likely the younger sons will have to find English wives, hopefully heiresses, so that they can have appropriate stations and wealth that don't have to be provided directly by the crown. It's like the Master of the Wards are directed to find the choicest heiresses for the youngest sons.

 

[isabella]

Okay, I understand that the chances of this happening are small, but we can focus on who each person marries and the consequences of these births rather than the possibilities of this happening.

At least five of the boys would NOT marry at all. Henry could maybe get Madeleine de la Tour as French/Scottish proxy, while his younger brothers will need English heiresses to marry (like Elizabeth Grey, Anne Bourchier, Catherine Willoughby) and that would still likely bankrupt England