The Visigoths win at Vouillé?

[Vinization]

The Battle of Vouillé was, IOTL, a devastating defeat for the Visigothic Kingdom, which not only lost its king, Alaric II (killed in action), but was also forced to give up also half of its territory to the Franks, including the capital city of Toulouse. According to Wikipedia, the kingdom went through a period of turmoil thanks to Alaric's premature death, since his legitimate heir, Amalaric, was only a child at the time, and it wouldn't be until the rise of Liuvigild that things stabilized somewhat.

So what if they won and retained control of Aquitania? Let's say that Alaric dies from old age in 520 or so, by which time Amalaric would be much more prepared to take the throne, even if he's still a bit young, and probably wouldn't have Theodoric the Great as a regent. Could the Visigoths intervene in the Gothic War against Justinian in Italy, perhaps by sending ships and soldiers to assist Totila's resurgence after Belisarius is reassigned to deal with the Sasanians in the east?

What would happen to the Franks? Would they expand deeper into Germania or somewhere else (Britain?), or would they fall apart in the short term, particularly since Clovis' death is just around the corner even if he doesn't get killed in battle (he died in 511 IOTL)?​

 

[Mario]

Whatever happens, it would be a big challenge for the Visigoths in a medium term to keep their territories in both sides of the Pyrenees, so sooner than later, they would either split or give up some part, if not Aquitaine, then their territories in Spain would be taken by Suebii, Vandals, Byzantines or whoever.

 

[Vinization]

Whatever happens, it would be a big challenge for the Visigoths in a medium term to keep their territories in both sides of the Pyrenees, so sooner than later, they would either split or give up some part, if not Aquitaine, then their territories in Spain would be taken by Suebii, Vandals, Byzantines or whoever.

I'm not so sure, since the Suebi didn't do much during the period of turmoil I already mentioned, the Vandals were on the way out, and the Byzantines took advantage of rebellions in the south and a civil war that might not happen ITTL.

Could a more successful Amalaric take advantage of the fact he was Theodoric's grandson to take over Italy? Assuming the answer is yes, could he ensure that this Gothic superstate stays united after his death?

 

[Lady Visenya]

I'd love to see a timeline where the Franks have to contend with a legitimate challenge to their boring as shit OTL ascendancy.

A Visigoth timeline like this sounds cool!

 

[Vinization]

I'd love to see a timeline where the Franks have to contend with a legitimate challenge to their boring as shit OTL ascendancy.

A Visigoth timeline like this sounds cool!

Too bad my own hands are already full. Hopefully this thread inspires someone!

 

[DanMcCollum]

I'd love to see a timeline where the Franks have to contend with a legitimate challenge to their boring as shit OTL ascendancy.

A Visigoth timeline like this sounds cool!

Well, in my timeline the Franks get utterly shattered by the Goths and you see a Gothic restoration of the West. So that might be of interest I haven't updated in a few months, unfortunately - grad school and the pandemic have kinda sapped my energy - but I really need to get back to it soon!

 

[Vinization]

Well, in my timeline the Franks get utterly shattered by the Goths and you see a Gothic restoration of the West. So that might be of interest I haven't updated in a few months, unfortunately - grad school and the pandemic have kinda sapped my energy - but I really need to get back to it soon!

Nice, I'll take a look at it later.

 

[Xenophonte]

What would happen to the Franks? Would they expand deeper into Germania or somewhere else (Britain?), or would they fall apart in the short term, particularly since Clovis' death is just around the corner even if he doesn't get killed in battle (he died in 511 IOTL)?

Well, first for a reverse battle's outcome, I think that either it should be fought in a different place and a bit later than OTL where the Visigoth could negate the advantage of the Frankish army or more simply for avoiding the allied local militiamen commanders to be killed along with the King Alaric.
But, about the consequences they 'd depend on how damaging would be the defeat for the Franks and especially if, as in the Visigoth case, their king would be killed in action... So, in the more favorable, for the Franks, outcome, they would have a few vert busy years recovering from the defeat and/or putting down rebellions and/or new menaces from Germany.
In the less, favourable, with their king killed, it could trigger a succession conflict not only for the crown, but over which lands of the kingdom would belong to each one of the potential heirs...
Also, and not less important, would be that in either case it would probably to butterfly away the formation of a Frankish kingdom controlling/encompassing all of the old Roman Gaul and, possibly, could at least even delay the OTL, conversion to Roman Catholicism from the Arianism among the Germany elites/ruling dynasties in the Gaul.
Also, would be worth to mention, that a stable and the richer Visigoth kingdom would have been very interested in any internecine/dynastic war among the Franks and even in helping to restore the Burgundian kingdom... Which, I think, that couldn't rule out as one of the possible consequences...
Finally, a stable and the bigger Visigoth kingdom would, (IMO) also, aside of Gaul and possibly to Italy, have interest and the means to project their power beyond the strait, in N. Africa, to at least to the former Roman Mauritania Tingitana... Where it would possibly collide with the Arab/Berber Muslim expansion...

 

[John7755 يوحنا]

I'd love to see a timeline where the Franks have to contend with a legitimate challenge to their boring as shit OTL ascendancy.

A Visigoth timeline like this sounds cool!

We are as different as possible. I would far prefer a Merovingian Frankish Europe than a Gothic Europe.

 

[Lady Visenya]

We are as different as possible. I would far prefer a Merovingian Frankish Europe than a Gothic Europe.

I wouldn't even want a Gothic Europe.

Just for the Franks to be broken up or not rise, and no one to rise to such overwhelming hegemony in western and central Europe as the Franks did for a while.

 

[Migrant_Coconut]

If Alaric II survives, so does the Balti dynasty, and that means a legitimate ruling line. May not save the Visigoths, but it will prevent OTL's electoral mess where everybody has a claim on the throne and is wiling to bring in random invaders (Byzantines, Umayyads, etc etc) to enforce it.

 

[kasumigenx]

The Bretons could conquer Neustria from the Franks.

 

[Vinization]

One thing, could the prestige from a hypothetical victory over the Franks strengthen Arianism to the point where it becomes a majority in the Visigothic Kingdom?

 

[Migrant_Coconut]

Even without the Franks, you're getting extreme pressure to go Catholic/Orthodox from the Byzantines - you'd need the Ostrogoths and Vandals intact to provide a united Arian front, and even that's a "maybe."