What are the Julian day numbers of Julius Caesar's date of birth, and date of death?

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Lee Pappas

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I found a problem with Julius Caesar's date of birth. According to Wikipedia he was born in 100 BC, and was consul for the first time in 59 BC. However the minimum age to be a consul was 42, so how could he become a consul when he was only 41. Something's rotten in Denmark. You had to be 42 to become a Roman consul, no exceptions.


According to some sources the minimum age was 40 if you were a patrician, but I think that's apocryphal. That idea was invented to explain how Julius Caesar could become Roman consul at age 41.

In the opening sentence of Suetonius' The Life of Julius Caesar it states:

"In the course of his 16th year he lost his father."

So if we can figure out when his father died we will know when he was born, and we can do that by seeing through an ancient Roman lie.
Caius Julius Caesar was not the son of Caius Julius Caesar and Aurelia Cotta, he was the son of Caius Marius Caesar and Julia Cotta. His first name was the first name of his father, his middle name was the first name of his mother, and his last name was the last name of his father. Furthermore both his sisters had the first name of their mother Julia.

The clue is in the first chapter of the life of Julius Caesar. At the end of the chapter it states

Everyone knows that when Sulla had long p5 held out against the most devoted and eminent men of his party who interceded for Caesar, and they obstinately persisted, he at last gave way and cried, either by divine inspiration or a shrewd forecast: "Have your way and take him; only bear in mind that the man you are so eager to save will one day deal the death blow to the cause of the aristocracy, which you have joined with me in upholding; for in this Caesar there is more than one Marius."

More than one *MARIUS*. This was the kaius Marius who was Roman Consul an unprecedented seven times, right in the vicinity of when Julius Caesar was conceived.

Julius Caesar the individual who would One Day become the most powerful man in Rome was not the son of a senator, he was the son of a seven-time Roman consul, and his mother was descended from a Roman King. It makes sense.
Now it is known from Plutarch's the life of Marius that kaius Marius died on the 17th day of his consulship in 86 BC. At that time in history the consulships began in March, therefore Julius Caesar's father died on March 17th, 86 BC.


Posidonius (135-51BC), a contemporary of Marius, found it peculiar that Marius only had two names, as we learn in the opening two sentences of Plutarch's the life of Marius. It states:

Of a third name for Caius Marius we are ignorant, as we are in the case of Quintus Sertorius the subduer of Spain, and of Lucius Mummius the captor of Corinth; for Mummius received the surname of Achaïcus from his great exploit, as Scipio received that of Africanus, and Metellus that of Macedonicus. 2 From this circumstance particularly Poseidonius thinks to confute those who hold that the third name is the Roman proper name, as, for instance, Camillus, Marcellus, or Cato; for if that were so, he says, then those with only two names would have had no proper name at all.

His last name was Caesar, Poseidonius was on the trail of the Great Lie.

Consider the following passage from Suetonius' the life of Julius Caesar:

When quaestor, he [Julius Caesar] pronounced the customary orations from the rostra in praise of his aunt Julia and his wife Cornelia, who had both died. And in the eulogy of his aunt he spoke in the following terms of her paternal and maternal ancestry and that of his own father: "The family of my aunt Julia is descended by her mother from the kings, and on her father's side is akin to the immortal Gods; for the Marcii Reges (her mother's family name) go back to Ancus Marcius, and the Julii, the family of which ours is a branch, to Venus.

Now consider Plutarch's The Life of Marius.

Still, the very intensity of his [Marius'] assurance, his indefatigable labours, and his plain and simple way of living, won him a certain popularity among his fellow citizens, and his honours brought him increasing influence, so that he married into the illustrious family of the Caesars and became the husband of Julia, who was the aunt of that Caesar who in after times became greatest among the Romans, and in some degree, because of his relationship, made Marius his example, as I have stated in his Life.6

If I'm right, both passages we're written after the lie was in place.

As for his birthday it was not July 12th it was February 23rd. When the Julian calendar was instituted in 44 BC, the leap day was set on his birthday February 23rd, by him.

In Macrobius' Saturnalia, Book 1, chapter 13, section 14, it states:

Now the month of February was appointed for all intercalation, because it was the last of the year: which they also did in imitation of the Greeks. For even they, in the last month of their year, interspersed the superfluous days, as Glaucippus relates, who wrote of the sacred things of the Athenians. 15 But in one respect they differed from the Greeks. For he was finished in the last month, and the Romans were not finished in February, but after p113 they intercalated the twentieth and third day of it, the Terminalia having already been completed; then they joined the remaining days of the month of February, which were five, after the intercalation;

Therefore Julius Caesar was born on February 23rd, 102 BC, making him 16 when his father died.
 
It is important to remember that all the details and especially the small details are argued about by scholars.

Adrain Goldsworthy does mention this scholarly debate up in his biography of Caesar. He thou argues that Caesar was given a special dispensation from the senate to enter the Cursus Honorum a year or two early. For him it's more about surrounding collegues dates then anything.

These ironclad rules of roman elections were bent by special dispensation from the senate to some individuals. Think only of Pompey and his first consulship or Scipio Africanus and his first consulship.

What is the Great Lie?
 
So if we can figure out when his father died we will know when he was born, and we can do that by seeing through an ancient Roman lie.
Caius Julius Caesar was not the son of Caius Julius Caesar and Aurelia Cotta, he was the son of Caius Marius Caesar and Julia Cotta. His first name was the first name of his father, his middle name was the first name of his mother, and his last name was the last name of his father. Furthermore both his sisters had the first name of their mother Julia.

That's not how Roman names work at all. I think you have been sold a stinker here.
 
There was no Julian branch of the Cottae. Nor was there a Marian branch of the Caesars. Cognomen tended to follow a specific gens, which is why we have Gaius Marius and his son Gaius Marius, who was the son of Julia Caesari. Gaius Julius Caesar Dictator was the son of Gaius Julius Caesar (son of Gaius Julius Caesar and brother of the Julia Caesari who married Gaius Marius) and Aurelia Cotta. Things got much more muddled up in the Empire, but during the Republic, noble Romans were pretty consistent with their names.
 
I found a problem with Julius Caesar's date of birth. According to Wikipedia he was born in 100 BC, and was consul for the first time in 59 BC. However the minimum age to be a consul was 42, so how could he become a consul when he was only 41. Something's rotten in Denmark. You had to be 42 to become a Roman consul, no exceptions.


According to some sources the minimum age was 40 if you were a patrician, but I think that's apocryphal. That idea was invented to explain how Julius Caesar could become Roman consul at age 41.

In the opening sentence of Suetonius' The Life of Julius Caesar it states:

"In the course of his 16th year he lost his father."

So if we can figure out when his father died we will know when he was born, and we can do that by seeing through an ancient Roman lie.
Caius Julius Caesar was not the son of Caius Julius Caesar and Aurelia Cotta, he was the son of Caius Marius Caesar and Julia Cotta. His first name was the first name of his father, his middle name was the first name of his mother, and his last name was the last name of his father. Furthermore both his sisters had the first name of their mother Julia.

The clue is in the first chapter of the life of Julius Caesar. At the end of the chapter it states

Everyone knows that when Sulla had long p5 held out against the most devoted and eminent men of his party who interceded for Caesar, and they obstinately persisted, he at last gave way and cried, either by divine inspiration or a shrewd forecast: "Have your way and take him; only bear in mind that the man you are so eager to save will one day deal the death blow to the cause of the aristocracy, which you have joined with me in upholding; for in this Caesar there is more than one Marius."

More than one *MARIUS*. This was the kaius Marius who was Roman Consul an unprecedented seven times, right in the vicinity of when Julius Caesar was conceived.

Julius Caesar the individual who would One Day become the most powerful man in Rome was not the son of a senator, he was the son of a seven-time Roman consul, and his mother was descended from a Roman King. It makes sense.
Now it is known from Plutarch's the life of Marius that kaius Marius died on the 17th day of his consulship in 86 BC. At that time in history the consulships began in March, therefore Julius Caesar's father died on March 17th, 86 BC.


Posidonius (135-51BC), a contemporary of Marius, found it peculiar that Marius only had two names, as we learn in the opening two sentences of Plutarch's the life of Marius. It states:

Of a third name for Caius Marius we are ignorant, as we are in the case of Quintus Sertorius the subduer of Spain, and of Lucius Mummius the captor of Corinth; for Mummius received the surname of Achaïcus from his great exploit, as Scipio received that of Africanus, and Metellus that of Macedonicus. 2 From this circumstance particularly Poseidonius thinks to confute those who hold that the third name is the Roman proper name, as, for instance, Camillus, Marcellus, or Cato; for if that were so, he says, then those with only two names would have had no proper name at all.

His last name was Caesar, Poseidonius was on the trail of the Great Lie.

Consider the following passage from Suetonius' the life of Julius Caesar:

When quaestor, he [Julius Caesar] pronounced the customary orations from the rostra in praise of his aunt Julia and his wife Cornelia, who had both died. And in the eulogy of his aunt he spoke in the following terms of her paternal and maternal ancestry and that of his own father: "The family of my aunt Julia is descended by her mother from the kings, and on her father's side is akin to the immortal Gods; for the Marcii Reges (her mother's family name) go back to Ancus Marcius, and the Julii, the family of which ours is a branch, to Venus.

Now consider Plutarch's The Life of Marius.

Still, the very intensity of his [Marius'] assurance, his indefatigable labours, and his plain and simple way of living, won him a certain popularity among his fellow citizens, and his honours brought him increasing influence, so that he married into the illustrious family of the Caesars and became the husband of Julia, who was the aunt of that Caesar who in after times became greatest among the Romans, and in some degree, because of his relationship, made Marius his example, as I have stated in his Life.6

If I'm right, both passages we're written after the lie was in place.

As for his birthday it was not July 12th it was February 23rd. When the Julian calendar was instituted in 44 BC, the leap day was set on his birthday February 23rd, by him.

In Macrobius' Saturnalia, Book 1, chapter 13, section 14, it states:

Now the month of February was appointed for all intercalation, because it was the last of the year: which they also did in imitation of the Greeks. For even they, in the last month of their year, interspersed the superfluous days, as Glaucippus relates, who wrote of the sacred things of the Athenians. 15 But in one respect they differed from the Greeks. For he was finished in the last month, and the Romans were not finished in February, but after p113 they intercalated the twentieth and third day of it, the Terminalia having already been completed; then they joined the remaining days of the month of February, which were five, after the intercalation;

Therefore Julius Caesar was born on February 23rd, 102 BC, making him 16 when his father died.
ASB. You are mixing naming traditions of the imperial age with the much stricter ones of the Republican period in which the names who a Roman citizen MUST have were the first two: his praenomen and the nomen of his gens who was the most important of all. The cognomen were strictly tied to the gentes as their main use was differentiate the various branches of a gens, unless it was a celebrative cognomen given for celebrate a military victory or a similar feat (who as such would not be inherited by the sons of the holder).
Caius Julius Caesar was a member and leader of the popular party but was also a patrician and Sulla‘s reforms of the Senate and Cursus Honorum while reinforcing the age requisites for holding the various offices, had also given the privilege of lowering the requisite age for most offices to the patricians (who were the nobility of Rome since before the Republic) like Sulla himself and Caesar, because Sulla was an Optimate and believed who blood and so being part of the most exclusive circle of Roman society deserved to be recognized (many optimates and some of the most influential gentes/families of the Optimates were of Plebeian origins and that was unchangeable but they were full part of the Senatorial class and Roman nobility as being a patrician or plebeian mattered little outside few religious offices who were reserve to Patricians and the office of Tribune of the Plebs who was restricted to the Plebeians).
Said that if you truly believe who nobody could become Consul before being 42 years old I will remind you who Romans laws prescribed also ten years of distance between two consulates (something who Marius pushed the Senate and/or Popular Assembly to ignore for keeping full control of the war against the Germans who were menacing Rome), then to a invite you to look at the political careers of both Pompey and Octavian, who cared nothing for the Cursus honorem as Pompey had first militar imperium as pro praetor without having held the praetorship (or any office of the cursus honorem) and was only 36 when he became Consul the first time (without having before any other office in the Cursus Honorem), while Octavian became Consul for the first time at only 20 years old (and never held any other office of the Cursus Honorem)
 

Lee Pappas

Banned
It is important to remember that all the details and especially the small details are argued about by scholars.

Adrain Goldsworthy does mention this scholarly debate up in his biography of Caesar. He thou argues that Caesar was given a special dispensation from the senate to enter the Cursus Honorum a year or two early. For him it's more about surrounding collegues dates then anything.

These ironclad rules of roman elections were bent by special dispensation from the senate to some individuals. Think only of Pompey and his first consulship or Scipio Africanus and his first consulship.

What is the Great Lie?
Caesar wasn't given special dispensation because of his civic crown in 82 BC, there had to be a really good reason for it like a time of war. Nobody was going to bend the rules for Julius Caesar, it had to be put to a vote in the Senate, and he had no one to argue for him.

As for the Great Lie, the lie to cover up his assassination details.
 
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Lee Pappas

Banned
There was no Julian branch of the Cottae. Nor was there a Marian branch of the Caesars. Cognomen tended to follow a specific gens, which is why we have Gaius Marius and his son Gaius Marius, who was the son of Julia Caesari. Gaius Julius Caesar Dictator was the son of Gaius Julius Caesar (son of Gaius Julius Caesar and brother of the Julia Caesari who married Gaius Marius) and Aurelia Cotta. Things got much more muddled up in the Empire, but during the Republic, noble Romans were pretty consistent with their names.
I would like to direct your attention to the consuls in the year of Marius' birth, 157 BC.

157 BC Sex. Iulius Caesar. L. Aurelius Orestes

Don't you find it strange that the first year a Caesar was elected consul was the same year Caius Marius was born. It is doubly strange that the name of Julius Caesar's mother is the middle name of Caesar's co-consul. Two stranges occurring together form what I call a clue. Someone was playing games with the consul list, to cover up evidence of the assassination of Julius Caesar. Since Julia was the name of Julius Caesar's mother, there's no way the middle name of Sextus Caesar was Iulius. It was MARIUS, he was Caius Marius Caesar's father, and thus Caius Iulius Caesar's grandfather.

In Plutarch's the life of Marius, he states Marius was the name of his father, which is true as I have it.
 
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Lee Pappas

Banned
ASB. You are mixing naming traditions of the imperial age with the much stricter ones of the Republican period in which the names who a Roman citizen MUST have were the first two: his praenomen and the nomen of his gens who was the most important of all. The cognomen were strictly tied to the gentes as their main use was differentiate the various branches of a gens, unless it was a celebrative cognomen given for celebrate a military victory or a similar feat (who as such would not be inherited by the sons of the holder).
Caius Julius Caesar was a member and leader of the popular party but was also a patrician and Sulla‘s reforms of the Senate and Cursus Honorum while reinforcing the age requisites for holding the various offices, had also given the privilege of lowering the requisite age for most offices to the patricians (who were the nobility of Rome since before the Republic) like Sulla himself and Caesar, because Sulla was an Optimate and believed who blood and so being part of the most exclusive circle of Roman society deserved to be recognized (many optimates and some of the most influential gentes/families of the Optimates were of Plebeian origins and that was unchangeable but they were full part of the Senatorial class and Roman nobility as being a patrician or plebeian mattered little outside few religious offices who were reserve to Patricians and the office of Tribune of the Plebs who was restricted to the Plebeians).
Said that if you truly believe who nobody could become Consul before being 42 years old I will remind you who Romans laws prescribed also ten years of distance between two consulates (something who Marius pushed the Senate and/or Popular Assembly to ignore for keeping full control of the war against the Germans who were menacing Rome), then to a invite you to look at the political careers of both Pompey and Octavian, who cared nothing for the Cursus honorem as Pompey had first militar imperium as pro praetor without having held the praetorship (or any office of the cursus honorem) and was only 36 when he became Consul the first time (without having before any other office in the Cursus Honorem), while Octavian became Consul for the first time at only 20 years old (and never held any other office of the Cursus Honorem)
You said
You are mixing naming traditions of the imperial age with the much stricter ones of the Republican period in which the names who a Roman citizen MUST have were the first two: his praenomen and the nomen of his gens who was the most important of all.

You emphasized MUST but you are forgetting about LOVE. What are you, a computer? Marius loved Julia, and gave her name to their children.

You said

If you truly believe who nobody could become Consul before being 42 years old I will remind you who Romans laws prescribed also ten years of distance between two consulates (something who Marius pushed the Senate and/or Popular Assembly to ignore for keeping full control of the war against the Germans who were menacing Rome), then to a invite you to look at the political careers of both Pompey and Octavian, who cared nothing for the Cursus honorem as Pompey had first militar imperium as pro praetor without having held the praetorship (or any office of the cursus honorem) and was only 36 when he became Consul the first time (without having before any other office in the Cursus Honorem), while Octavian became Consul for the first time at only 20 years old (and never held any other...

The Romans were paranoid about being attacked by the Germans, so they made an exception in Marius' case. And I can explain Pompey's situation somehow. As for Augustus, he had Cicero in his corner, and his great uncle Julius Caesar had just been assassinated, so that's why they bent the rules in his case. Cicero assured the senators that the heart of Augustus was with the Republic.
 
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I know you are referring to praenomen, nomen, and cognomen. But Marius loved Julia, and gave her name to their children.

So is your TL where Caesar is actually Marius' son? I'm a little unclear about what's going on here. If it is your TL idea, it's definitely interesting but the obvious way to do this would be to have Caesar be Marius' second son, who is adopted by his uncle and aunt (the elder Caesar and Aurelia), since we know Marius had a son, also named Gaius Marius, because that's how Roman nomenclature works. Then you don't have to retroactively make up Marii and add them to the consuls list.
 
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